Indian Special Forces (archived)

[abingdonboy]

Interesting..

The writer says we are going for M4A1 over Tavor and after a few paragraphs writes that the Army doesnt want 5.56 but 7.62 mm to take out hardcore terrorists.

Noticed the same, maybe the SCAR (already used by SG) will be ordered for the 7.62mm role? The M4 is free to use for all SF btns already for specific missions or depending on operator preferance but more will likely be ordered (along with more Tavors) to make sure every btn has adequate reserves of them.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Noticed the same, maybe the SCAR (already used by SG) will be ordered for the 7.62mm role? The M4 is free to use for all SF btns already for specific missions or depending on operator preferance but more will likely be ordered (along with more Tavors) to make sure every btn has adequate reserves of them.

Its wonderful if the SCAR is ordered but SG is a Special Unit within a Special Unit ie Super Para aka SFF and they get to use anything they want.

I would be happy if they order some helmets,better comm sets,better nvgs and gpmgs.

 

[abingdonboy]

Its wonderful if the SCAR is ordered but SG is a Special Unit within a Special Unit ie Super Para aka SFF and they get to use anything they want.

I would be happy if they order some helmets,better comm sets,better nvgs and gpmgs.

Given the role the PARA (SF) plays and how elite they are themselves they deserve top-notch equipment themselves. Of course the SG are the top of the top but that doesn't mean they should be the only ones to get such gear. You know better than I bro that it is the PARA (SF) teams that are out on a day to day basis protecting the naiton and hunting jihadis.

It is not as if the money isn't there, to equip all Indian SFs (only the 3 true blue SFs) to NATO standards would cost maybe a few billion spread out over 3-4 years- a cost that is more than justified and would ensure a greater degree of strategic punch for the Indian nation/military as a whole.

Who has been given the job for the last two high profile "surgical mission"? PARA (SF).

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Given the role the PARA (SF) plays and how elite they are themselves they deserve top-notch equipment themselves. Of course the SG are the top of the top but that doesn't mean they should be the only ones to get such gear. You know better than I bro that it is the PARA (SF) teams that are out on a day to day basis protecting the naiton and hunting jihadis.

It is not as if the money isn't there, to equip all Indian SFs (only the 3 true blue SFs) to NATO standards would cost maybe a few billion spread out over 3-4 years- a cost that is more than justified and would ensure a greater degree of strategic punch for the Indian nation/military as a whole.

Who has been given the job for the last two high profile "surgical mission"? PARA (SF).

I wont disagree but look at how the things are going...

We still have some units who haven't got rid of the 56 and will now be getting M4A1.

There are no Fast helmets.Lets not count 1 or 2 here and there.

GPMGs,Shotguns

They need better bpj and Nvgs

And i am not even getting into tactical computers,solar batteries and all that shit.

But i would agree with what you said and this is what i have been thinking.Why cant the Army say..Ok from this year we will army 100 operators with the best equipment in the world and in 5 years you will have 500 top notch operators ready to be sent anywhere.

The Para SF needs to have around 500 operators who are the best of the best with the best equipments and prepared for the worst.We really don't need 10k SF force.

This is such a mess and i don't know how we will ever get out of it and stop going for the numbers.From whatever knowledge i have i can say that we will never need 10k SF for any operation.We should go for 3-4 SF units with the best equipment like 9th mountains,10th desert ,21 for east and 1st for strategic needs.

Rest all should be converted to Airborne infantry.First give the best equipment to the 4 SF and then the Airborne Infantry.This should be done even if we have to sacrifice 100 Main Battle tanks because i believe 500 operators are more lethal than 100 tanks.

Having said this we should also equip the units on the LOC with basic NVGs so these BAT motherfuckers can be stopped.

Lastly this is endless but what about Ghataks.They have no equipment to be doing Special Ops.They are not fully NVG equipped,AR are not Tavor when i checked the last time,bulky BPJ,shitty helmet and what not.They have to get some good equipment too.

 

[abingdonboy]

But i would agree with what you said and this is what i have been thinking.Why cant the Army say..Ok from this year we will army 100 operators with the best equipment in the world and in 5 years you will have 500 top notch operators ready to be sent anywhere.

The Para SF needs to have around 500 operators who are the best of the best with the best equipments and prepared for the worst.We really don't need 10k SF force.

This is such a mess and i don't know how we will ever get out of it and stop going for the numbers.From whatever knowledge i have i can say that we will never need 10k SF for any operation.We should go for 3-4 SF units with the best equipment like 9th mountains,10th desert ,21 for east and 1st for strategic needs.

The solution is clear- SOCOM.

I guarentee India will get its SFs up to Western standards within 5-6 years once it is raised AND the SF guys will also be better trained and more honed. The current command structure of the Mil only further allows for the neglect of the Spec Ops community, they need to be entirely cut off from the "big" mil and allowed to do their own thing, these are guys who would thrive under such autonomy.

I actually think the current SF number in India is ideal and should be set in stone, not another operator position raised (once the Garuds are finished expanding) for the next 14 years, the focus can only be on making the most of the current force.

The CDS post (step towards SOCOM) may be created by Dec 31st so let's see what happens next.

Once the SOCOM is there, the next progression would be a JSOC type structure with the "best of the best" (400-500 operators) for the high-end missions.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The solution is clear- SOCOM.

I guarentee India will get its SFs up to Western standards within 5-6 years once it is raised AND the SF guys will also be better trained and more honed. The current command structure of the Mil only further allows for the neglect of the Spec Ops community, they need to be entirely cut off from the "big" mil and allowed to do their own thing, these are guys who would thrive under such autonomy.

I actually think the current SF number in India is ideal and should be set in stone, not another operator position raised (once the Garuds are finished expanding) for the next 14 years, the focus can only be on making the most of the current force.

The CDS post (step towards SOCOM) may be created by Dec 31st so let's see what happens next.

Once the SOCOM is there, the next progression would be a JSOC type structure with the "best of the best" (400-500 operators) for the high-end missions.

With the Socom we will be better equipped to handle threats but how it will help with the overall modernization i am not sure.But it will take a lot of stress out from the Para SF who are fighting in every mujahidin attack that hits us.

Its not a good sign when only 1 SF unit is facing the heat and the rest 2 who are equally qualified don't get to see action.

Regarding the modernization i dont see the Indian SF on the same level of US/Nato SF in terms of equipment by 2025.Skill wise and experience wise they are right there but i dont think the equipment will match a Nato operator before 2025.(talking of all the 10k operators)

The Indian SF have a history of buying weapons from the countries they trained with so lets hope we have more Nato/US interactions and some more orders under the current govt.

 

[abingdonboy]

With the Socom we will be better equipped to handle threats but how it will help with the overall modernization i am not sure.

Easy.

With its own chain of command and budgetary allocation the SOCOM will be able to buy what it wants, how it wants (within reason) and when it wants. As it stands today, the SF (of all 3 services) are controlled by the same redundant procurement policies of the rest of the Mil AND have the added headache of having to justify their needs to unqualified (not SF that is) senior brass.

Today the SFs are just another formation of their respective services and are largely ignored, in their own command THEY will call the shots, gone will be this ad-hoc procurement drama after a high profile SF event and maybe we could actually start seeing some long term SF procurement plans for 5/10/15 years.

Regarding the modernization i dont see the Indian SF on the same level of US/Nato SF in terms of equipment by 2025

Can be done (contingent on SOCOM) but will it is the real question...

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Easy.

With its own chain of command and budgetary allocation the SOCOM will be able to buy what it wants, how it wants (within reason) and when it wants. As it stands today, the SF (of all 3 services) are controlled by the same redundant procurement policies of the rest of the Mil AND have the added headache of having to justify their needs to unqualified (not SF that is) senior brass.

Today the SFs are just another formation of their respective services and are largely ignored, in their own command THEY will call the shots, gone will be this ad-hoc procurement drama after a high profile SF event and maybe we could actually start seeing some long term SF procurement plans for 5/10/15 years.



Can be done (contingent on SOCOM) but will it is the real question...

SOCOM will be a detachment of all the SFs right?So only the contingent will have its own budget and the rest will still have the non NATO operator gear which will be like 80% of the SF units.

Thats why i have my apprehensions.

 

[abingdonboy]

SOCOM will be a detachment of all the SFs right?So only the contingent will have its own budget and the rest will still have the non NATO operator gear which will be like 80% of the SF units.

Thats why i have my apprehensions.

There are numerous models I have heard being thrown around over the years (full control of all SF units and their associated support equipment), small (500 operators) contingents from each SF unit on deputation rotating through (basically a JSOC style arrangement) etc etc we will have to see what permutation India adopts and how it evolves over the years.

My preferance would be an all emcompassing SOCOM with 100% of all SF units under the MIL's command but this is unlikely as it would require a massive reform of the current command structures of the armed forces and this itself would take decades.

So if a JSOC style model is adopted then there is still hope because no doubt this "gucci" equipment would trickle down to the rest of the SF community in time especially with the expansion of budgets that will come with improved economic growth.

 

[Bornubus]

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[Brahmaputra Mail]

Balidan badge but with no maroon beret and special forces tab. Any reason why ?

Source- ADGPI Facebook Page

 

[aditya g]

IN VBSS training:

..................

 

[Bornubus]

Paratrooper Marksman

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[reddevil9]

Paratrooper Marksman

View attachment 12782

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,
is it airborne or SF?
and Sir is there a specific reason for using the word marksman? when we do have dedicated snipers in para battalions at least i think.

 

[Bornubus]

,
is it airborne or SF?
and Sir is there a specific reason for using the word marksman? when we do have dedicated snipers in para battalions at least i think.

First off i am no sir. Sir


He belong to the SF. And there are different weapons for different role. This is a DMR in this case.


And yes there are dedicated Snipers and Sniping course imparted at Mhow infantry school.

 

[Bornubus]

Also, i noticed that Marcos have different variant of it. SVD S with shortened barrel, conical flash hider, no bayonet lug and foldable butt.

 

[reddevil9]

He belong to the SF. And there are different weapons for different role. This is a DMR in this case.


And yes there are dedicated Snipers and Sniping course imparted at Mhow infantry school.

no no no, i think you didn't get me, is he a designated marksman or an actual sniper who is currently been employed as a marksman for a specific op?

First off i am no sir. Sir
just accept this much of regard from a 18 year old kid. it's an obligation for me at least

 

[MrPresident]

@reddevil9 Thanks fr the story share about avenging Cap. Saurab Kalia, my blood always used to boil whenever I come across his story. My his soul rest in peace. I always used to think why havent we avenged his death the same way? now I know it was avenged. Hats off for Para s.

 

[aditya g]

Also, i noticed that Marcos have different variant of it. SVD S with shortened barrel, conical flash hider, no bayonet lug and foldable butt.

SVD-K

It is a variant meant for naval forces. The bullet can punch thru steel targets

 

[Bornubus]

SVD-K

It is a variant meant for naval forces. The bullet can punch thru steel targets

SVD S. I've not seen SVD k with them.