Indian Special Forces (archived)

[pmaitra]

Yes they are, but their training is varied and extensive for a variety of purposes. They are at their best in covert ops, causing mayhem behind the enemy lines. I believe NSG should be restructured into a the primary CI force.

One battalion is assigned to RR, and RR is involved in COIN.

I agree in principle with what you are saying though.

 

[hardip]

O..M...G....

6000 Rpm... 7.62
elec.Motor Operated..

fix at border post.. and over APC..

and crushed..the enemy.. whoever he Kashmiri anti indian..or terrorist though in his mind...

(one my comment some.. din dukhio ke data mujse itrayenge.... kahengey..ye julm hai.

bala...
blaaaa
blaaaaaaaaaa....

ma ki.....ch........

Its over kill for terrorists, it will actually burn them........i wish i could make it here and put on all vehicles.[/QUOTE]

O..M...G....

6000 Rpm... 7.62
elec.Motor Operated..

fix at border post.. and over APC..

and crushed..the enemy.. whoever he Kashmiri anti indian..or terrorist though in his mind...

(one my comment some.. din dukhio ke data mujse itrayenge.... kahengey..ye julm hai.

bala...
blaaaa
blaaaaaaaaaa....

ma ki.....ch........

Its over kill for terrorists, it will actually burn them........i wish i could make it here and put on all vehicles.[/QUOTE]


Ur imottion is right...
..
So mostly people Agree insidly but not express in word..
But i sure ...Time show that... Indian need like this mass destruction capability... against... this sepretist/ pak supporters.. / sleeper cell

 

[armyofhind]

Second from left or right?

Looks like Israeli Galil.

yep it is indeed galil.
The charging handle gives it away. Interesting to see SF with it.
The one with the soldier has a piccatiny rail on it too if you look closely.

 

[hardip]

Soldier second from left in the first pic... which weapon does he have slung on his back?

yes....U r Right

See .. Eu countries , USA , Rusian fedration.,Israel ,turkey, saudi arebia, china ,Indonesia, this is that country who facing like terrorist attack .. But their Counter terrorist Unit Handel this Hostile situation...

USA: umited states has long list.. fight like hunting terrorist..

SWAT:in every state of police.Also other unit too in NYPD:LAPD,SHERIFF And major states..

USA has separat depatment ..

Israeli is Mostly used Counter oparation in GAZA ,Gaza strip, to raid in house.

germany is GOOD

 

[hardip]

some more....

france police

 

[hardip]

Russian..

even india has also delhipunjab any othr mubai.

but dont know why india mot using effectivly in thaat situation

 

[Blackwater]

Yes... hun Indian jugadi hai..
see.. Mars mission.. equal of a Hollywood movie..
but results First time first success.

no one country did that

yes just like HAL tejas 35 yrs and Arjun 40 yrs but results still awaiting.

no other country did that

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

 

[Blackwater]

Its done with purpose to blend in, incase situation so demands.

blend in ????? then they should also wear school uniform as well shirt and nicker and lollipop in their mouth to blend in better
:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

 

[hardip]

yes just like HAL tejas 35 yrs and Arjun 40 yrs but results still awaiting

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

der-bader savera ho hi jayega... aur indian politicts ko bhi maloom ho hi jayega...
ki " boohat time le liya bhai chalo now import from US-France -RUS>>>!
"

 

[su35]

whick ak series gun is used by russian special forces? THey look cool though

 

[sayareakd]

blend in ????? then they should also wear school uniform as well shirt and nicker and lollipop in their mouth to blend in better
:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

they need to be in their uniform almost all the time.

 

[WARREN SS]

We Should Better Make Rashtriya Rifles Our Own Marine corps They Should Given better gears And Weapons And Should have It own Armoured And Air Assets

It will good for Power projection

 

[hardip]

whick ak series gun is used by russian special forces? THey look cool though

Its
Modernize ...AK 105, AK 74,USED BY Russian FSB Special force,AlFA Group

AK 12

AK 105

 

[abingdonboy]

I still don't understand why SFs, especially Para SF have to be brought in for CI ops. They are not meant to be used as the regular infantry. They are a trip of the spear, the scalpel if you wish and given their training and skills need to be used as such. This is a job for NSG or RR and if necessary, special sub-units especially trained for such incidents must be handed the task.

But it seems we are not the only ones, there have been reports of SAS and Navy Seals being used in the same way in the past. In fact in Afghanistan, seals are being used for a lot of infantry like tasks.

As you have yourself pointed out NATO SOFs have conducted these missions routinely in both Afghanistan and Iraq and the reason is simple. Their training, physical abilities and equipment are naturally a notch above any "regular" unit.

it is the case the world over that specialist units are brought in for such complex ops, what sense is there in letting these guys sit in their bases whilst their brothers in the regular units get butchered?

Yes they are, but their training is varied and extensive for a variety of purposes. They are at their best in covert ops, causing mayhem behind the enemy lines. I believe NSG should be restructured into a the primary CI force.

Let's not conflate responsibilties. The miltiary, SF included, have peacetime and wartime/conventional roles. In peacetime the SFs will be engaging in these COIN ops (supporting the regulars/RR) and in wartime doing as you say (behind enemy lines mayhem). It is only logical that they support COIN ops to a) give them the much needed combat experience that all credible SOF units need and b) to ensure the best assets are on hand when needed.


It is not like there is much else for these guys to do as India doesn't really fight wars and they need to keep their skills sharp. There is a reason these guys are considered elites and why they are recognised the world over, their expereinces in COIN ops has meant they are truly honed and ready so when called upon (as seen recently) they are deadly.

Regarding casualties, we lost three brave Paras (not sure if they were SF) while flushing out the piglets in the same building in February this year.

And just like any proffesional outfit lessons were learnt applied and this time 0 Indian security forces were killed and 100% of the terrorists were sent to their 72 virgins.

I agree, but I would rather see NSG takeover such ops, leaving Para SF to do what they do best, because what they do best cannot be done by anyone else. CQBs in CI ops can be designated to specialised forces such as NSG.

Agreed with you on this, surely the NSG are the best equipped and most natural force for CQB in India (not that the SOFs aren't trained for it) and require the real world expsosure themselves but the IA want to handle all such incidents internally ie using their assets (PARA (SF) ). Ideally there would be a NSG hub in JK.

 

[abingdonboy]

yes....U r Right

See .. Eu countries , USA , Rusian fedration.,Israel ,turkey, saudi arebia, china ,Indonesia, this is that country who facing like terrorist attack .. But their Counter terrorist Unit Handel this Hostile situation...

USA: umited states has long list.. fight like hunting terrorist..

View attachment 11011 View attachment 11012
SWAT:in every state of police.Also other unit too in NYPD:LAPD,SHERIFF And major states..

View attachment 11013
USA has separat depatment ..
View attachment 11017
View attachment 11016

Israeli is Mostly used Counter oparation in GAZA ,Gaza strip, to raid in house.
View attachment 11014

View attachment 11018
germany is GOOD
View attachment 11020
View attachment 11021

If these terrorist attacks happened anywhere else in India it would be the NSG that would be killed in (as seen countless times, 26/11 and Pathankot are the most recent examples), JK is a special case wherein the IA call the shots and thus elect to use their own assets where possible.

Interestingly the NSG are deployed to JK in many of these HR situations but the IA chooses not to let them get involved.

 

[rkhanna]

Let's not conflate responsibilties. The miltiary, SF included, have peacetime and wartime/conventional roles. In peacetime the SFs will be engaging in these COIN ops (supporting the regulars/RR)

Actually.. this argument is false. Yes, US SOF has been doing these type of Raids for over a decade. JSOC and SOCOM are burnt off. Being the tip of the spear means they are taking unusual number of casualties.

There are reports of huge rifts within the SOCOM community pushing back against Theater Commanders wanting them to do these zero return en-devours so that somebody up the chain of command can get career progression.

However SOF by nature are STRATEGIC. not Tactical. All this COIN and CT is tactical. Better left to our COIN specialized units / light infantry (RR, SOF, Ghataks)

Some food for thought for your

http://theweek.com/articles/443052/are-americas-special-operations-forces-crisis
All these type of ops (which make the Jingo's proud and the Politicans look good) are actually degrading US SOF Capability. PTSD, Attrition, etc etc. Pointless missions with the only outcome is some lowlevel flunky getting killed.

Another Article

"Waves of money have sluiced through SEAL Team 6 since 2001, allowing it to significantly expand its ranks — reaching roughly 300 assault troops, called operators, and 1,500 support personnel — to meet new demands. But some team members question whether the relentless pace of operations has eroded the unit’s elite culture and worn down Team 6 on combat missions of little importance. The group was sent to Afghanistan to hunt Qaeda leaders, but instead spent years conducting close-in battle against mid- to low-level Taliban and other enemy fighters. Team 6 members, one former operator said, served as “utility infielders with guns.”"

The cost was high: More members of the unit have died over the past 14 years than in all its previous history. Repeated assaults, parachute jumps, rugged climbs and blasts from explosives have left many battered, physically and mentally.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/world/asia/the-secret-history-of-seal-team-6.html



Unfortunately while we do nothing the ape the good bits of US SOCOM, we seem do be doing a fine job in getting into the same "SF will do everything" trap

 

[rkhanna]

One battalion is assigned to RR, and RR is involved in COIN.

I agree in principle with what you are saying though.

If NSG is doing CI then who is left doing CT/HRT - IMO the same unit cannot do both. Completely different Tactics, Training, and equipment.

COIN and CT/HRT is are two completely different Beasts. HRT, GIGN, GSG-9 are not going to be deployed to Iraq, Syria anytime soon

 

[Metty]

Hold your horses man...

The experts on DFI are not sitting in MOD to assign any budget.They share their experience and views which you want take it or leave it.Please don't use words like "ullu".

And about afgan army...Hundreds of their cadets pass out from Indian academies each year.Why?...Don't give a fish teach how to catch a fish.US has aided them but India is building their foundation.

With a Million+ strong army and some shoddy khangress governance what do you expect ? Rome was not built in a night ..not even in a year.

Changes are on the way..but it shall take some time.Relax.
Chill.

Dth40d200dx


First..m not man...thnx atleast u accept my thoughts is horse. It mean m right..
Second is.. I respect all my country expert.who share their experiences to us..( but it mean not that we must follow on them idea)

Yes Afghanistan army's lots of Army pass out from our Military Institute..also African countries..(becuse..there were no any military Institute. . After '90-95 bad time for Afghan.. also for African because civil war continues from many year...
They choose india because.. They know the reality..
Not any country ready(diplomatically) .. to train them also eu,us, r expensive.. this countries r very rich.. but unfortunately their heart not rich.. just like india.

Nd how u believe that I support khangress... !?
That era is worst.. for india.. in40 year they did not anything.. (without champlusi)..yes Indira gandhi was brave. Leader..
.. so I also believe that our situation..on like this.. we have not enough military hardware or.. military arms manufacturers.. investment in military program.. khangress responsible...
We facing this.. we have not produce good rifles, tanks, aircraft engine, ..serveylence .any many more.. our military needs tons nd we produce just.. Milligrams..
Modi government take some serious nd owsome step for this. But we have also put our old idea.. nd come out.
.. Need to think about Forward. Future, nd that's Fantastic. Of India..

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes Afghanistan army's lots of Army pass out from our Military Institute..also African countries..(becuse..there were no any military Institute. . After '90-95 bad time for Afghan.. also for African because civil war continues from many year...
They choose india because.. They know the reality..
Not any country ready(diplomatically) .. to train them also eu,us, r expensive.. this countries r very rich.. but unfortunately their heart not rich.. just like india.

I'd like to differ here. Its not just politics or Infra which brings them to India. If that would have been the case, why you think US troops regularly train in CIJW and Parvat Ghatak? Afghans were trained in India, period, but they too were trained by US. Training in US or India is more about armed force strategy rather then cost. That's the same reason why US troops had excessive training in Parvat Ghataks before their Afghan war.

 

[Chinmoy]

If these terrorist attacks happened anywhere else in India it would be the NSG that would be killed in (as seen countless times, 26/11 and Pathankot are the most recent examples), JK is a special case wherein the IA call the shots and thus elect to use their own assets where possible.

Interestingly the NSG are deployed to JK in many of these HR situations but the IA chooses not to let them get involved.

Along with these you have to look basically at what we are facing and where. As some members has posted some cool pics of CT forces across the world, but they have forgot to mention one basic point along with it.
Point is, which of these forces deals exclusively with terrorists who are trained by elite soldiers and undergo rigorous arm training?
In JK you are not simply facing any gun totting guys, these are rats which are send with excessive military training and tactics. Which of those CT troops has came across terrorists armed to teeth with RPGs, GPS, NVD, TACSAT and all?
So basically speaking of NSG, they are fine scalpel and quite an asset for CT in urban areas where hostage situation could arise. But you can't expect them to jump into each and every CT ops which involves suicidal highly trained Mujahids or Regular Army(!). In these situation, a sledge hammer is more appropriate then a chisel.