Indian Sniper Equipment & Tactics

[SofaAloo]

Yes their requirements were different. So?

I never said that the Dragunov is not a capable weapon. I said its not comparable to Sniper Rifles in use today.
The debate was on whether the SVD can be classed as a sniper rifle today or as a DMR.

Read and make sense of what is being discussed before blabbering like an idiot.


Yeah Ive written the same thing you idiot. go and read first. Again the argument is on whether it is a sniper rifle or not. Do you think a weapon with a max range of 400 m is a sniper rifle? Or rather a special purpose weapon?
Vintorez was made for Spetsnaz units for picking off sentries and such from intermediate range in silence.

You could put on a suppressor on the end of a SAKO TRG or an M110 or an MSG and do it from much farther than a Vintorez today.


SVD is a capable weapon but it isnt enough when our guys are facing new age sniper rifles chambered for lapua magnum and are being targeted from ranges well beyond 800mtrs.
That is precisely why this RFI for a new class of weapon in the Indian Army has been issued .

Because a weapon is still capable today doesnt mean more capable weapons shouldnt be adopted and the designation of the older weapons changed to those of the newer weapons.

Thats like terming a Mig-21 Bison a fifth generation fighter.

Which rifle will be selected isnt for you to decide. The competitors will come forth with their weapons and then they will be evaluated under indian conditions. The winner will be chosen.
So stop with the british fanboy rantings.

Read and understand first what the debate is about before being an idiot and getting verbal diarrhea.

You suggested the debate was on whether the SVD could be classed as one or the other, the answer is simply both, perhaps you don't know the difference between a sharpshooter/designated marksman altogether.

With regards to your above comment, you've already thrown out the purpose altogether if your suggesting it wasn't for myself to decide which company will offer a tender alongside a procurement contract, the suggestion is simply an offer of a tried and tested system, of course it's not for me to decide, and thank God it's not for you either, but I'm open to hear your suggestions.

You should also perhaps go back to the origina post by user
@ghost before spilling more irrelevant racial diatrabe especially incited comments like "british fanboiy rantings", the original poster was simply after some inclined suggestions with regards to calibre and models available from arms manufacturers

 

[SofaAloo]

Enough with this DMR vs Sniper debate.
Its simple : we need another sniper rifle better than SVD along with SVDs in field

Try explaining that to @armyofhind because he thinks this thread is on whether the "SVD" is one or the other.

 

[armyofhind]

You suggested the debate was on whether the SVD could be classed as one or the other, the answer is simply both, perhaps you don't know the difference between a sharpshooter/designated marksman altogether.

So youre suggesting that the SVD fits the definition of a Sniper Rifle as per today. Good then. You have a lot to learn.

With regards to your above comment, you've already thrown out the purpose altogether if your suggesting it wasn't for myself to decide which company will offer a tender alongside a procurement contract, the suggestion is simply an offer of a tried and tested system, of course it's not for me to decide, and thank God it's not for you either, but I'm open to hear your suggestions.

Of course it isnt for you to decide which weapon the Army will use. Are you trying to challenge that fact?

I would rather discuss it with someone who actually knows their stuff, rather than a fanboy like yourself.

You should also perhaps go back to the origina post by user
@ghost before spilling more irrelevant racial diatrabe especially incited comments like "british fanboiy rantings", the original poster was simply after some inclined suggestions with regards to calibre and models available from arms manufacturers

There are other equally capable, if not better weapons chambered for Lapua Magnum out there. SAKO TRG-42, Barret MRAD, PGM Hecate to name a few. But all you've been ranting about is Arctic Warfare.


And to suggest that UK is an ally of India is to put it very simply, abysmal.
A small indicator of what they harbour in their hearts for India can be the comments they've taken to when India surpassed their economy. Others would be their support of Pakistan.
But you overlook all of that and say things like India is a most welcomed ally of UK like a wide eyed fanboy.
Hence the tag.

 

[armyofhind]

Try explaining that to @armyofhind because he thinks this thread is on whether the "SVD" is one or the other.

Again you idiot, read my posts. Also go back to other posts and see how the debate started.
Like I said, read the posts and make sense of it first before blabbering like an idiot.

Do me a favour and dont quote me further. You're a waste of my time.

 

[SofaAloo]

So youre suggesting that the SVD fits the definition of a Sniper Rifle as per today. Good then. You have a lot to learn.

Of course it isnt for you to decide which weapon the Army will use. Are you trying to challenge that fact?

I would rather discuss it with someone who actually knows their stuff, rather than a fanboy like yourself.

There are other equally capable, if not better weapons chambered for Lapua Magnum out there. SAKO TRG-42, Barret MRAD, PGM Hecate to name a few. But all you've been ranting about is Arctic Warfare.


And to suggest that UK is an ally of India is to put it very simply, abysmal.
A small indicator of what they harbour in their hearts for India can be the comments they've taken to when India surpassed their economy. Others would be their support of Pakistan.
But you overlook all of that and say things like India is a most welcomed ally of UK like a wide eyed fanboy.
Hence the tag.

A sniper rifle is simply a weapon that surpasses a standard issue small arms weapon in terms of range and accuracy, that's all it is, perhaps you have more to learn than myselff in that case!

As for sentiments with regards to Pak vs India you may keep that issue to yourself my friend because it is nothing to do with us, and as for India over taking the UK's economy, quite frankly it will, great, but as for overall conditions etc I don't see India getting very far with regards to improvements in living conditions let alone simply being a slave of western corporate companies

 

[armyofhind]

A sniper rifle is simply a weapon that surpasses a standard issue small arms weapon

Bravo to you for saying that and demonstrating how "knowledgeable" you are.
Need I say more?

 

[SofaAloo]

Bravo to you for saying that and demonstrating how "knowledgeable" you are.
Need I say more?

That's a textbook definition, surpassing standard issue weaponry in terms of range and accuracy, but you wouldn't include that, you needn't say more because your frothing must make you tired as it is

 

[armyofhind]

That's a textbook definition, surpassing standard issue weaponry in terms of range and accuracy, but you wouldn't include that, you needn't say more because your frothing must make you tired as it is

Haha. Now youre backtracking upon being exposed. No problem, turn tail and run.

And perhaps you cant read. Dont quote me further and waste my time.

 

[SofaAloo]

Haha. Now youre backtracking upon being exposed. No problem, turn tail and run.

And perhaps you cant read. Dont quote me further and waste my time.

What makes your time so valuable, punkah wallah?

 

[WiseMan]

From multiple YouTube videos I have watched and pages I have read over the issue of sniper rifles and their capabilities:
1. SVD can shoot a human target comfortably at 500 meters, may hit upto 700 meters and rarely hits anything beyond 800 meters. It will need a better scope and match grade ammo to hit something at higher ranges. People have hit targets at 1500 meters with SVD using special ammo and Western scope- however terminal effectiveness is questionable at that range.
2. .338 Lapua or .300 Winchester Magnum can hit (and kill) at 1200m and beyond easily. Up to 1800 meters is possible for most shooters. When I say easily- I really mean it.
3. Scope is as important (if not more important) as the sniper rifle itself. Dragunov lacks modern scope for long range accuracy. Match grade ammo is equally important. Some of these day-scopes cost $2000 and more.
4. Lapua is an expensive round. $3-4 for one match grade round.
5. .50 BMG is excellent for anti-material and even for sniping roles at long ranges but with some major drawbacks: heavy weight of the gun makes mobility an issue; high recoil of a big round is tough to handle even for big European dudes; fewer rounds can be carried due to size. Again, match grade .50 cal ammo costs $3-5 per round compared to 80-90 cents for a regular .50 cal one.
6. Most snipers in the US SF use customized sniper rifles- .300WM and Lapua are preferred for long range sniping. http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/01/17/american-sniper-chris-kyle-rifles/
7. Paki army has much better sniper rifles currently in use than SVD.
8. Accuracy International, Sako, mini Hecate, Remington, Armalite, McMillan and Berrett are similarly priced excellent options for .338 rifles.

Overall, the need to buy .338 chambered sniper rifles is long overdue. As long as good scopes and ammunition are also purchased, this will provide Indian snipers with highest level of capabilities.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Some of Tonbo Imaging Sights
Thanks @WCW
Tonbo Imaging is an Indian Defence StartUp, a New Company

 

[armyofhind]

Use of few snipers rifles in special caliber does not make it main stream use. Pls give the number of conventional caliber in use compared to inducted by these nations??

Few Rifles?
Check the number of Arctic Warfare Magnum Rifles in use alone by various countries around the world.
I'm not even counting the other Rifles chambered in Lapua Magnum here.

 

[pmaitra]

As per the opening post, the Indian Army wants a sniper rifle that can reach 1.2 km and and fire 8.6 mm bullet so that it has more stopping power than the 7.62 mm bullet. Some people prefer a bolt action so as to reduce vibration on firing, while some prefer semi-automatic for convenience. The army has not specified anything in this regard, but their questionnaire asks this question. Personally, I suppose a closed bolt action semi-automatic would sufficiently reduce vibration.

There are various lists of “best” or “top x” sniper rifles, which vary from author to author. Here is a list of “Top 10 Sniper Rifles” from Wonderful Engineering. Many of them are in 7.62 x 51 mm NATO. One of them is the Dragunov with 7.62 x 54 mm R. It also lists the British L42A1 Enfield, essentially an analogue of the RFI 7.62 x 51 mm NATO Short Magazine Lee-Enfield aka the Ishapore 2A1.

 

[Bornubus]

Paratrooper Marksman

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[Kunal Biswas]

Those windows reminds me of old days ..

 

[ezsasa]

As per the opening post, the Indian Army wants a sniper rifle that can reach 1.2 km and and fire 8.6 mm bullet so that it has more stopping power than the 7.62 mm bullet. Some people prefer a bolt action so as to reduce vibration on firing, while some prefer semi-automatic for convenience. The army has not specified anything in this regard, but their questionnaire asks this question. Personally, I suppose a closed bolt action semi-automatic would sufficiently reduce vibration.

There are various lists of “best” or “top x” sniper rifles, which vary from author to author. Here is a list of “Top 10 Sniper Rifles” from Wonderful Engineering. Many of them are in 7.62 x 51 mm NATO. One of them is the Dragunov with 7.62 x 54 mm R. It also lists the British L42A1 Enfield, essentially an analogue of the RFI 7.62 x 51 mm NATO Short Magazine Lee-Enfield aka the Ishapore 2A1.

RFI indicates that IA wants bolt action sniper rifle.

 

[hardip]

Some INDIAN SPECIAL UNIT USING THIS ISARELI SNIPER...

 

[sthf]

View attachment 13259

Some INDIAN SPECIAL UNIT USING THIS ISARELI SNIPER...

I don't think this is Indian SF but rifle is most likely IWI DAN .338.

 

[F-14B]

Additional to the above point the RFI states bolt action and @hardip's picture shows a semi automatic

 

[pmaitra]

Additional to the above point the RFI states bolt action and @hardip's picture shows a semi automatic

I don't think it is semi-automatic. Looks like a bolt-action to me.