Indian nuclear attack on Rawalpindi

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thats why we must build iron curtain (literally!) along pak border. we must have worlds best air defense where not a single pak aircraft or missile can get through.

cost is irrelevant.
Once we have all the Phalcon AWACS delivered and many of our own indigenous AWACS completed I don't think a mosquito will fly across the border undetected, not to mention our satellites and intelligence sharing with other nations.
 
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in a war india will try make it a swift and limited one..pak may have to use it's full strength to match india. We surely cannot over power pakistan with in days for sure..and unless we get a big upper hand or capture vast area deep inside pak, they will not use nuke.
Park our Arihant ATV on the shores of Pakistan in this scenario and let's see how ready they are to use their nukes.
 

Agnostic_Indian

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@t22
let's be realistic..
nuk are not weapons which we use on first or second week of war...
it's the last resort...
it will be used only when their their territorial integrity is on question or when they are not able to fight a conventional war any more because india over powersed and out classed them in all areas of war.
so no country how irresponsible it is cannot use a nuk as a first choice...
and i am of the opinion that we should buy s500 even if have our own system..because no BMD is 100% fool proof and ours is certainly not. Remember our well tested and mass produced missiles fail again in army's user trail's..so a complex system like Bmd is much more prone to failure..And a failure in a critical time will cost as huge..so better operate two different systems at a time..money should not be a consideration.
and in an NBC attack we may reply with nuk but not in a mumbai like incident.. Air strikes on terror camps will be the better option.
 

hero

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It is good discussion. We have to make sure that pakistan think thousand times before saying a nuke word.
According to me, we should kill pakistan's export industry even we are in loss. They are not making any special things than India for export.
If it happens for 3-4 years, Full chaos and they will bend more like north korea.
 

Yusuf

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People understand one thing. India does not have the arsenal to bomb Pakistan to stone age, neither has China to do the same to India.
What MAD is about is what damage are you willing to take in terms of lives lost? Two bombs that immediately killed 150,000 was enough to get Japanese surrender. But that was because they didnt have bombs of their own. If Japan had A bombs, would the US have attacked knowing that Japan could well land a couple in California? The US mounted war when 3000 of its citizens were killed by terrorists. So it sure cannot take loss of hundreds of thousands.

Not even a mad man in Rawalpindi HQ will be able to take a huge loss of life in Pakistan because of Indian retaliation. All the nuclear sabre ratling is to keep India honest so that India does not use its conventional superiority to overwhelm pakistan.
 

Iamanidiot

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People understand one thing. India does not have the arsenal to bomb Pakistan to stone age, neither has China to do the same to India.
What MAD is about is what damage are you willing to take in terms of lives lost? Two bombs that immediately killed 150,000 was enough to get Japanese surrender. But that was because they didnt have bombs of their own. If Japan had A bombs, would the US have attacked knowing that Japan could well land a couple in California? The US mounted war when 3000 of its citizens were killed by terrorists. So it sure cannot take loss of hundreds of thousands.

Not even a mad man in Rawalpindi HQ will be able to take a huge loss of life in Pakistan because of Indian retaliation. All the nuclear sabre ratling is to keep India honest so that India does not use its conventional superiority to overwhelm pakistan.
ill call the paki nukes bluff cross the border and engage in a massacre.Since paki nukes are chinese nukes we will tell the CCP that a paki retaliation will be considered a first strike by China .This will make the CCP to not use paki nukes meanwhile we can pull the pakis innards inside out and engage in some timuridian practices with the bakis hows that
 

SHASH2K2

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ill call the paki nukes bluff cross the border and engage in a massacre.Since paki nukes are chinese nukes we will tell the CCP that a paki retaliation will be considered a first strike by China .This will make the CCP to not use paki nukes meanwhile we can pull the pakis innards inside out and engage in some timuridian practices with the bakis hows that
Its not officially proved that Pakistani weapons are chinese weapons. We all know whats the fact is but diplomacy runs on proven facts . Moreover Use of Nukes is Pakistan decision and China cannot be blamed for it . Approach like this will bear no result and instead provoke China to arm Pakistan. Pakistan asked for something and china sold it on certain price . You cannot hang seller on that basis . Best we can do it to apply various kind of pressure to stop repeat of further sales like this.
 

Iamanidiot

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CHIC-4 devices stored in chinese constructed bunkers and guarded with PLAAF air force divisions are not Chinese nukes?Intel and diplomacy are different
 

SHASH2K2

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CHIC-4 devices stored in chinese constructed bunkers and guarded with PLAAF air force divisions are not Chinese nukes?Intel and diplomacy are different
You cannot hang someone unless proved in court of law. Unfortunately it cannot be proven . Diplomacy is much more different that our reaction in day to day life. ALl I am trying to say is that we need to work on two different strategies. one is to counter existing pak nukes and 2nd is to stop flow of further sophisticated weapons and delivery systems to them . Cannot even dream of Pakistanis having MIRV missiles.
 

neo29

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Though claims are than India has 70 to 80 nukes and total arsenal less than Pakistan, surely this is debatable and India is likely to have much more than claimed.

In that case it is absolutely possible to bomb Pakistan to stone age with 10 nukes ( number may be wrong ). India has an attack plan so as how many nukes to use to annihilate Pakistan as we must make sure that the nuclear radiation does not cross our border. But one thing is for sure that apart from nukes India will be carrying out operations to take out their silo's and other line of defenses that are in place. Once thats done and Pakistan as a whole has crumbled, the surviving population will die with radiation and nuclear winter. If they dont die surely civil war and riots will begin among the population. The scenario more than enough qualifies for stone age.

But all this when Pakistan uses nukes against India first. They will be thinking the same thing to annihilate India to avoid retaliation from us. So for us to make Pakistan back to stone age we need to survive the nuclear onslaught and we need layers of BMD active.
 

Yusuf

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Its not officially proved that Pakistani weapons are chinese weapons. We all know whats the fact is but diplomacy runs on proven facts . Moreover Use of Nukes is Pakistan decision and China cannot be blamed for it . Approach like this will bear no result and instead provoke China to arm Pakistan. Pakistan asked for something and china sold it on certain price . You cannot hang seller on that basis . Best we can do it to apply various kind of pressure to stop repeat of further sales like this.
How do you officially prove that China gave nukes to pak? Do you expect the Pakistanis to hold a press conference or a felicitation ceremony for the Chinese thanking them for it?
There is a wealth of intel available on Pak proliferation. What AQ khan had, and then also sent copies to Iran, Libya has been recovered. They were in chinese!!

And no nuclear weapons sale is not like selling apples that you can wash your hands clear of it.
 

Yusuf

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adding further from my previous post,

this is the reason why China will not want Pakistan to use its nukes against India as it will "officially" tell the world that it gave nukes to Pakistan. China supplied nukes to Pak just to keep India under check. Nothing more. China will be the first to stop any Pak use of their nukes.
 

Agnostic_Indian

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Imo china will be the last one to stop pak from using nuks against india..a nuk exchange between india and pak means both countries will go 50 Years back..if not to stone age. China doesn't care about pakistan, china sees pak as a tool to win race with india to became the sole super power of asia...what else can make their dream come true..
 
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SHASH2K2

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How do you officially prove that China gave nukes to pak?
I am also saying samething. how can it be proven and without proof its useless .
And no nuclear weapons sale is not like selling apples that you can wash your hands clear of it.
Then suggest a way to prove it and take China to any international forum you want .
 

ashdoc

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Pratik, I am amused by your comment. You're here on a military and defence forum and you're talking about "peace and prosperity". :emot15: Isn't that an oxymoron?
he's gone spiritual:happy_2:
 

Yusuf

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I am also saying samething. how can it be proven and without proof its useless .

Then suggest a way to prove it and take China to any international forum you want .
You cannot "officially" do it. Its is all there to see in the intel world. Everything is known. But diplomatic niceties prevents everything from going over ground. But it is a known fact that China gave nukes to Pak who then further sold to Libya, Iran and North Korea. Pakistan will deny its "official" role in it, but obviously they are not telling the truth. AQ Khan was just made a scapegoat so that Pakistan wasnt declared rogue. If there was no war on terror going on and Pak was not a front line "ally" of the US, the US would have already declared Pak a rogue and a terrorist state.
 

shaka

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Yusuf, you are making a big assumption that China can control pakistanis. Or should I say out of control elements in Pak army/ISI.

The question here is what should be Indian response if Indian cities gets nuked or if one "so called" Jehadi detonated Atomic Munition(JDAM) goes of in lets say Delhi.

Let me say one thing that BM defences don't guarantee anything. There is a high chance of failure of these, especially if these get saturated (more missiles coming on same target). Obviously BMD is useless against "JDAM"

If China proliferated Nukes to Pakistan which Pak used on India, then I think China will and should go down as well. MAD

An Indian leader or a military general needs to state this comprehensively, even if it brings international condemnation on India.
 

SHASH2K2

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You cannot "officially" do it. Its is all there to see in the intel world. Everything is known. But diplomatic niceties prevents everything from going over ground. But it is a known fact that China gave nukes to Pak who then further sold to Libya, Iran and North Korea. Pakistan will deny its "official" role in it, but obviously they are not telling the truth. AQ Khan was just made a scapegoat so that Pakistan wasnt declared rogue. If there was no war on terror going on and Pak was not a front line "ally" of the US, the US would have already declared Pak a rogue and a terrorist state.
I was not trying to counter your point or prove you wrong. All I wanted to say that since nuclear and missile technology is already with Pakistan we should form a definite and concrete strategy to counter it and secondly we need to make efforts to make sure that China do not transfer more sophisticated weapons and missiles to Pakistanis. I would say that we should make it clear that if they move any step further in nuclear field we will not hesitate to adopt same policies and start arming countries which chinese are not comfortable with .When Chinese can do it and get away with it so can we. After all when chinese did these they were much behind than what we are now.
 

Yusuf

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Though claims are than India has 70 to 80 nukes and total arsenal less than Pakistan, surely this is debatable and India is likely to have much more than claimed.

In that case it is absolutely possible to bomb Pakistan to stone age with 10 nukes ( number may be wrong ). India has an attack plan so as how many nukes to use to annihilate Pakistan as we must make sure that the nuclear radiation does not cross our border. But one thing is for sure that apart from nukes India will be carrying out operations to take out their silo's and other line of defenses that are in place. Once thats done and Pakistan as a whole has crumbled, the surviving population will die with radiation and nuclear winter. If they dont die surely civil war and riots will begin among the population. The scenario more than enough qualifies for stone age.

But all this when Pakistan uses nukes against India first. They will be thinking the same thing to annihilate India to avoid retaliation from us. So for us to make Pakistan back to stone age we need to survive the nuclear onslaught and we need layers of BMD active.
You have no IDEA about nuke warfare. 10 bombs from India will take Pak to stone age? Its laughable. The US with their advanced technology keeps 3 warheads per target to make sure it achieves its objectives. India is nowhere near it. This "bombing back to stone age" line can be used by only two countries the US and Russia. No one else can do it.
Nuclear winter will not set in with 10 bombs.
But yes, the people of Pakistan will surely rise against its beloved army for putting it into hardship by nuking India and inviting Indias retaliation.

Pakistan does not have any silo based missiles if my knowledge is correct. Even India does not. Its all on Road and Rail.
 

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