Indian Mig 21 BISON v/s PAF JF 17 , who has an edge.

[Kunal Biswas]

JF-17 vs Lone MIG-21 in dog fight, MIG-21 dont have a edge..

But, With BVR like R-77 and good ECM it can kill..

 

[tony4562]

JF-17 vs Lone MIG-21 in dog fight, MIG-21 dont have a edge..

But, With BVR like R-77 and good ECM it can kill..

Yes, it could. Under right circumstances it could also take down a F22, but its chance of getting shot-down is much greater. If there is a one-on-one battle bewteen JF-17 and Mig21 Bison, whether close-range or BVR, I would put every of my pennies on JF-17. The kopyo radar installed on Mig21 has considerably less range than the KLJ-7 does, and PL-12 is according to many sources at least as good as R-77. Currently, integration of JF-17 with PL-12 is approaching completion.

 

[mukul_2210]

Point taken . . . . .

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

jf-17 is a joke and will always be a joke.it is a fighter of a beggar nation and it is a downgraded chinese aircraft which itself is downgraded version of other countries fighters.if given a choice i would buy pilatus trainer rather than jf-17.

 

[mukul_2210]

oh yes . Did jf 17 took part in any of the joint exercises ? if yes how did it performed . Not talking about air show ...

This would put some more light
Pakistani JF-17 A Thunder OR A Blunder ~ ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

 

[Rohan Sharma]

With regards to you friend The picture you have about bisons is really unrealistic .
As a matter of fact India used Mig25 for interception purpose with its ability to fly at 2.8 to 3.2 mach speed at a altitude of over 70 000 km they were invincible for paf. you can see the stats where paf even complained India later on as it flyover a ceiling of 70000 km with mach 2 speed but paf didn't have anything to stop that as f-16 have an operational ceiling of less than 55000 km.

Mig 21 were used as a multirole combat craft providing secondary support and as an interceptor too.

Though now with mig25 out of service because of unavailability of its parts bisons are more of an interceptor but they will clash with jf17 in that case as we don't have a very dedicated branch for everything and iaf will be using them .


Now in case almost all the fleet of bisons will be out by 2014 and remaining 40 odds by early2017.

Tejas mk2 will be primary used for the purpose and its mac2+ speed with ability to strike ground targets gives it a better chance then bisons.

As far as air to ground attack is concerned its really sad to know that we don't have many and mig27 improved blocks or mig29s are not really that effective but they are good. so IAF is deploying sukhoi with brahmos missile for this purpose but given the gigantic structure of sukhoi it will need escorts to carry out those strikes in form of mig29mk or even typhoon.

F-18s or f-35 are the better choice for air to ground but strategically if we buy them it will be like funding paf and F-18 will make no sense after 2020 with the advent of f-35 and PAk fa. T-50 also AMCA is considered to be more of a air to ground attack combat aircraft that's what is told to hal by IAF.

Lets see what we got into stock because its unlikely under normal circumstance that India will go to war with pak before 2025.

But who knows.

In between the quality of jf-17 is not to be worried about as said so many times IAF had a look at them too. and they are nothing more than tinbox believe me on that but yes the number in which they are procured by paf is a cause of concern as 200plans are really big of a stock .Otherwise the russian engines it has are serious concerned for itself and its in testing phase as paf inducted it without evaluation while tejas has been evaluated and improved by IAF since 2006. Considering USA may supply its f-16s and F-18s old fleet to pak as it begins the induction of 2500 F-35 in usa airforce by 2020. F-18s for India is big no.

Though India must get a hand on F-35.Will give better idea about that and USA is not going to provide that without the latest tech to India.As otherwise it will make no sense as a fifth gen fighter craft.

But the biggest disappointment for India is tejas high altitude performance and ceiling and its inability to clock around 2.5 mach speed makes it a very normal interceptor but yes its survivability is good.

bisons are pretty good till tejas is inducted and jf-17 is not still ready to enter into combat zone.

 

[Rohan Sharma]

Yes, it could. Under right circumstances it could also take down a F22, but its chance of getting shot-down is much greater. If there is a one-on-one battle bewteen JF-17 and Mig21 Bison, whether close-range or BVR, I would put every of my pennies on JF-17. The kopyo radar installed on Mig21 has considerably less range than the KLJ-7 does, and PL-12 is according to many sources at least as good as R-77. Currently, integration of JF-17 with PL-12 is approaching completion.

HAHA Sure it can take down F-22 under right circumstance lolz.

And the right circumstance is???? hahahahahahahhahahaahaha

 

[Rohan Sharma]

JF-17 vs Lone MIG-21 in dog fight, MIG-21 dont have a edge..

But, With BVR like R-77 and good ECM it can kill..

Its not yourmig21 anymore its bison now and can take down jf17 in case it would be tejas fighting that tinbag and no doubt Tejas is the best thing as a matter of fact tejas survivability capability makes it a winner against F-16 but yes on the same time am not saying that it will take down phalcon but for sure can escape it.

 

[Rohan Sharma]

Can not agree less, before J20 deploy, Chinese actually use mig-21 and it's copy version J7/8 to deal with F-22.
China still is producing a lot of them every year.
Pakistan's Mig-21 also have record that shoot down Mirage2000.
why they use the JF-17(Joint Failure)?
fortunately, China still have more than 1000 mig-21/J7/J8, half of them brand new.
you know China and Pak are sleep in same bed, it is almost free if Pak want them.
How many IAF have, just 500? and old almost can not fly?
India should buy more Mig-21, Chinese version is cheaper but quality is ok, you guys welcome to buy. 20% off.

We got Tejas much better than mig21 or jf-17 .And the seal says Made in India.

Its good to know china still produce mig21 would love to take em down with Tejas sukhoi mki and Typhoon.

Ek baar maarna shuru kara to bhool jaayega saas kaha se le aur chode kaha se lolz

 

[Poseidon]

Any Chinese crap works only for a few months.After that you will see that the touch screen stops working then the keys malfunction after that crap goes down.
Joint failure 17 is no exception.

 

[Sabir]

I am sure some members got infected by infamous Pakistani virus. I have seen affected Pakistani members claiming Pakistan is third in missile tech, JF17 can beat Su-30 MKI.etc.

If you want a serious discussion start with a serious heading. And comparing two platforms with 40 years age difference do not speak well about the standard of the forum. And, I dont believe whatever made in China needs to be crap. Only fools underestimate the enemies.

 

[SPIEZ]

From a practical point of view, the Chinese who have spent billions in the project have no interest of inducting them in large numbers. As far as I see the PAF is the sole user of the aeroplane.

 

[ace009]

jf-17 is a joke and will always be a joke.it is a fighter of a beggar nation and it is a downgraded chinese aircraft which itself is downgraded version of other countries fighters.if given a choice i would buy pilatus trainer rather than jf-17.

Again and again I see the idiotic jingoism from my countrymen and their empty rhetoric turning this forum into an Indian version of PDF. I really grow tired of this childish attitude - Ray is right - only fools underestimate their enemy and only fools think that enemy equipment is crap.
As far as I am concerned, if it can fly, shoot missiles and drop bombs, it is a good enough weapon for the enemy and should be respected by IAF as a threat.

From a practical point of view, the Chinese who have spent billions in the project have no interest of inducting them in large numbers. As far as I see the PAF is the sole user of the aeroplane.

The Chinese did spend considerable amount of money on the JF-17 development. But they could afford it as a "learning platform" - I am sure it helped them a lot in developing the J-10, and the J-20. Also, they intend to use this as a revenue source for their aircraft manufacturers - by exporting them to other countries with weaker economies - like Pakistan, maybe Bangladesh, Burma, Sri Lanka, Ethiopia etc. That way the Chinese gain a market for their weapons, radar and sundry other equipment too, not to mention strategic presence in those countries in times of need (i.e. war with India).

For countries like Pakistan, it is an important step, since they learn how to assemble an aircraft, make some design/ equipment changes and get a feel for "development". It also gives them bragging rights about "home made" aircraft.

In enough numbers, even the JF-17 will be a headache for India - remember it does not take a $100 million aircraft to down another $100 million aircraft - it takes one lucky AAM - even if it fired from a $20 million aircraft. More "BANG" for bucks - right?

Anyway, long story short, the JF-17 is real - PAF has it in numbers and therefore it is a threat - no amount of d!ck measurement will make it go away - the responsible and mature thing to do is assess it's "maximum capabilities" as a threat perception and analyze how best to counter it.
Or is that too much to expect from all the fanboys determined to turn DFI into another PDF?

 

[mayfair]

One important thing to note is that Quantity has a quality of its own. Regardless of the capabilities of JF-17, real, perceived and imaginary, a 100-200 of them headed towards our borders, cities and installations will cause one big headache, bigger than say a dozen F-16s.

This is because, even if they are mean as canon fodder, they'll divert a reasonable portion of our air defense assets and would be a classic feint maneuvre. Being cheap, Pakis can induct them in large numbers and since they have no dearth of radicalised jihadis, they can find enough mindless rudimentary trained maniacs to fly these in kamikaze sorties.

Any way we look at it, it's another arrow in the quiver of our enemies and meant to be used only against us. We will underestimate the threat at our own peril.

 

[nimo_cn]

after reading the above replies, I think that it is stupid for Indian to buy MACA and Su30,after IAF has MIg21 bis.

They need something to fight the alient.

 

[sathya]

i hope LCA will arrive soon & give mig 21 some rest...
and also this thread

 

[p2prada]

In enough numbers, even the JF-17 will be a headache for India - remember it does not take a $100 million aircraft to down another $100 million aircraft - it takes one lucky AAM - even if it fired from a $20 million aircraft. More "BANG" for bucks - right?

But it takes a $100Million aircraft to find a target.

No aircraft will present itself to be shot. The JF-17 cannot be compared at all to the big ones out there. However it will be better than the Mig-21 in a lot of respects.

 

[pankaj nema]

India has kept Mig 21 Bison PRECISELY for the sake of Numbers

Mig 21 Bison being a high speed MACH 2 interceptor with Helmet Mounted Cueing ; Kopyo radar and
R 77 will surely BRING DOWN the JF 17

 

[agentperry]

quantity vs quality. if a jf-17 can be equipped with aesa and bvr capability then it will be as dangerous as any other bvr enabled plane. sighting enemy and then firing a bvr missile may take down any plane with no good protection suite. jf-17 is inducted and is flying( most of the time) and they have the luxury to upgrade which is a big thing.

but unlike many here and common people of our countries, our forces are not taught to underestimate enemy of any shape and size.

 

[sayareakd]

quantity vs quality. if a jf-17 can be equipped with aesa and bvr capability then it will be as dangerous as any other bvr enabled plane. sighting enemy and then firing a bvr missile may take down any plane with no good protection suite. jf-17 is inducted and is flying( most of the time) and they have the luxury to upgrade which is a big thing.

but unlike many here and common people of our countries, our forces are not taught to underestimate enemy of any shape and size.

if we can put BVR and aesa on this will it take down JF17 ??? not underestimating enemy just want to know.