Indian Jaguar Upgrade

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Sridhar, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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  3. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Jaguar modernisation to push service life beyond 2030

    The Indian Air Force(IAF) has lit the afterburners to make its Jaguars fighting fit for modern warfare and increase their service life.

    The Jaguars, the only aircraft with the IAF capable of carrying nuclear weapons other than the Mirage-2000s, are being fitted with autopilots, next-generation avionics and lethal armaments under an ambitious modernisation programme that will see the fighters flying well after 2030.

    Nearly 120 Jaguars are being modernised.

    So far, the IAF has procured autopilots for 55 Jaguars and talks for 95 more, which includes spare autopilots, are underway, according to information shared by the government in Parliament.

    The upgradation of the Ambala-based fighter jets, in service for more than four decades, is being carried out by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited(HAL) at a cost of more than Rs.3,000 crore.

    Autopilots would lessen pilot workload, freeing them from physically flying the jet during long flights though, in an ultimate test of IAF top guns, six Jaguars flew all the way to Alaska for a joint exercise with the US Air Force in 2004.

    The government is also reviving a plan to re-engine the aircraft with a more powerful powerplant.

    The IAF feels the Jaguars, powered by Rolls Royce Adour-811 turbofan engines, are underpowered, and wants a more powerful engine for the fighters.

    But its hunt for a new powerplant has not been easy. In 2010, its bid for more than 250 turbofans for the Jaguars could not take off as one of the contenders - Rolls Royce, which offered its upgraded Adour MK-821 engine- backed out leaving only Honeywell's F124IN engine in the fray.

    The Indian government prefers to avoid single-vendor bids in military acquisitions.

    The Jaguar's cockpit is going to completely transform. It's going to turn all glass. There will be digital MFDs(multifunction displays) replacing the traditional analog gauges and dials, and pilots will have fly-by-wire controls.

    Read more at: Jaguar modernisation to push service life beyond 2030 : North, News - India Today
     
  4. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Now, why not Uk media saying our AID is used in modernising Indian Jaguars:shocked::shocked:
     
  5. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    It still dont have Radar..
     
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  6. Bheeshma

    Bheeshma Regular Member

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    Only the Jag-IM have radars the mud pushers IB etc never did have radars.
     
  7. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    no radar, no good
     
  8. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually the Jag doesn't need a radar, a state of the art IRST + Optical locator system is more than enough, arm it with Python-5s, Litening Pods and lots of PGMs like CBUs, Paveways, Griffins, Sudharshans, JDAM-ER, SDB and it would be the ideal strike platform. Due to no radar and it's incredible low level capabilties, the enemy will have no warning on it's arrival. IAF pilots are known to shave the rocks with these birds. With the Honeywell engines, it would have 35% more range, carry more weapons and fly faster. More-so than the Mirage the Jag remains the deadliest way of carrying our air dropped nukes as well.
     
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  9. DaTang

    DaTang Tihar Jail Banned

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  10. Bheeshma

    Bheeshma Regular Member

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    Not needed..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2012
  11. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    You should know about SEAD missions..

    This aircraft suits the need..

     
  12. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    It is our only fighter which can manage a lo-lo-lo mission at ranges of 2000Km while carrying 2 LGBs and drop tanks.

    Without drop tanks, even the MKIs cannot match that range with that flight profile.

    The pilots flying Jags are highly experienced and brilliant at their work. Not worth the effort to give them MKIs when the aircraft is not plumbed to carry tanks. It's low altitude performance is the best in the IAF with adequate power, high wing loading (over 500Kg/m[SUP]2[/SUP]), excellent drag control, brilliant maneuvering and a few other traits lacking in many of our other aircraft. A new engine will make all of these things even better like giving it better fuel efficiency, superior medium altitude performance and more range. Anybody asking to replace this aircraft without any reason isn't right in the head. You are excused since you did not know. :)

    Bring in the two massive 30mm cannons with rocket pods and it's capability as a CAS aircraft is immeasurable.

    Irreplaceable you see. As a matter of fact, there is no equivalent replacement aircraft available. They are talking about the AMCA, but it won't be as good as the Jaguar.

    Would you ask the USN to replace their A-10s unnecessarily? Especially if it is something as good as the A-10 and F-16 combined. I wouldn't.

    The upgrade isn't particularly expensive either.
     
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  13. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    range of 2000 km ??

    from what i heard its combat radius is only 800 km---less than that of the f-16 . its certainly not a ' Deep penetration strike aircraft '----the fancy title given to it by the air force . no terrain following / terrain avoidance radar for low level flying .

    it can be called an attack aircraft at best .

    anyway it didnt perform that well in kargil . ultimately laser guided bombing was done by mirage 2000s .

    in the west it is regarded as old and unsophisticated . its performance in the 1990 kuwait war was below par . since then it has been largely discarded by both france and britain .
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
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  14. EzioAltaïr

    EzioAltaïr Regular Member

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    A little of faith dude, AMCA won't be as good as Jaguar? How do you know? The AMCA is not even designed yet.
     
  15. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Its true, But during the time it was purchased its call so..

    Now its purpose is for CAS and SEAD..
     
  16. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    It's combat radius is measured in the lo-lo-lo profile, not other profiles. 800Km radius is on internal fuel. Add 200-300Km with tanks.

    Medium altitude range is 3600Km with drop tanks, that's more than MKI.

    4200Liters of fuel after all. That's a lot for a 7 ton aircraft.

    Currently, it is our longest range aircraft if SEAD is considered.

    It is a DPSA.

    No, but it comes with a new RLG inertial navigation and a digital terrain mapping system which is superior to the terrain avoidance radar.

    It is.

    I don't think the reasons know to us are the same as what we are thinking right now. LGBs were relatively new to us during Kargil, it may have seen some problem not yet revealed publicly.

    Other than that engines were weak. This we know and is being rectified.

    We added a LITENING pod. Period. :)

    France discarded it only for one reason, Cutbacks.

    Britain discarded it for only one reason, Cutbacks.

    USSR was no more.

    Earlier AMCA was said to be a direct replacement for Jaguars as a strike aircraft. IAF changed requirements to air superiority aircraft with a secondary strike capability.

    So, what was supposed to be a F-35 turned into a Rafale/Tiffy hybrid. So, it is no longer a direct replacement to the Jags. But let's see what happens.
     
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  17. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    It would be silly to get rid of this bird, it is a very pragmatic aircraft that will carry in the near future the CBU-97/105 SFW which can destroy 40 target with a single bomb, Raytheon developed a munition control unit for the Jag which allows it to deploy new smart weapons, Paveways, Griffins, Sudarshans etc are already deployed.I think it is crucial to get a new engine asap. With nearly 35% more range with the honeywell, this bird could wreck all kinds of havoc. Moreover, it will have better resistance to FOD, better top speed, acceleration and fuel burn. Moreover, it is a pilot's aircraft easy and fun to fly. It is also easy to operate and maintain. With the upgrade, new cockpits, a built in OLS/IRST for Python-5, Litening pod etc it will be one of the primary aircraft to strike deep in enemy territory.
     
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  18. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Duh! It is an attack aircraft!
     
  19. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    there are several types of ground attack aircraft that i have heard of---of the tactical variety . I am Not talking about strategic bombers like B-1 OR B-52.

    one is a strike aircraft---which is capable of long range ( around 1500 km ) and carries a 8000 to 10000 kg of weaponry . this , the jaguar is NOT as its capabilities are inferior than this.

    second is attack aircraft---which has a relatively modest range of less than 1000 km and can carry 3000 to 4000 kg of weaponry . this is what the jaguar IS .

    third is CAS or close air support aircraft---this has even lesser range and lesser weapon load and no PGM capability . the jaguar is better than this .

    other is SEAD ( suppression of enemy air defence )aicraft . many strike or attack aircraft can be converted to this . hopefully the jaguar will be converted to this later .

    also there are COIN ( counterinsurgency ) aircraft . these are slow moving aircraft which can strafe rebels from air . this the jaguar is most certainly NOT .

    i am only specifying what type of aircraft the jaguar is---its an attack aircraft not a strike aircraft .
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  20. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Both are the same if roles are concerned. Strike aircraft or attack aircraft mean the same thing. For eg: The SH and Hornet have the designation F/A which stands for Fighter/Attack.

    The difference is aircraft like JH-7A and F-111 are heavier versions for the same role while Jaguar is not. Jaguar is something that a less affluent air force would use namely IAF. This may not be a case anymore, but the Jaguar is a considerably mature platform in our possession with the most recent acquisition being made in 2010. It is not worth discarding it for superior strike aircraft right now when we are inducting new types of aircraft. Both types come under the category of tactical strike aircraft.

    We do not yet know what plans IAF has for UCAVs or any other strike platform like the Su-34.

    Apart from tactical strike is the strategic strike aircraft which comprises of medium and heavy bombers.

    SEAD is not an aircraft type, it is a role. Supression of Enemy Air Defences. Three things are required for it. A good self protection suite, weapons and performance. Jaguar has all 3 and is our primary SEAD aircraft.

    Light aircraft. Not used anymore. Helicopter and Gunships are better.
     
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  21. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    This will be the worlds first INDIAN autorikshaw with fly by wire on the skies.
    Come on what is it's twr? climbing rate> Why people here hate jaguar pilots? why do you want to kill them?
    it did it's job well in the previous century.Now asking it to come and fly against pak F-16s and Jf-17s with SAB AEW&CS aircraft support in enemy territory in deep strike roles is atrociuos.
    IAF may use it for training and other non core purpose.Spending money and increasing it's engine power,expecting it to defeat PAf F-16s, JF-17s and modern ground based SAMS is of no use
    It started life as an advanced trainer.
    With SAB awacs on the pak side can it meet the JF-17 and come back home?
    it is guarenteed not to return home in any LO-LO flying mission with it's terrible TWR?
    Can it out turn 1990s heat seeking SAM? with it's upgraded engine power?
    Putting well trained pilots in it is a seriuos risk in the comming decade.
    If we keep on doing stuff like this 100 jags upgraded and to fly till 2030,200 Migs upgraded till 2030, then you wont find youngmen willing to join IAF in a 5 years time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
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