Compersion
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better to get (some more) Hercules + Chinooks. osprey would be doing the role of both. better increase the number of those first.
Appreciated if you can introduce yourself in members section.....I saw a war show on TV these days, that showed Osprey being used effectively in Libya, mainly for its fly-by-wire and silent flight that caught the target man by surprise.
When I first got the news of The Surgical Strike (since it's the first by Indians, reported openly and loudly we can call it "The Surgical Strike"), I thought about Osprey. It could be very effective in such operations.
In a dense AD environment such as exists in PoK no helo is really worth risking.I saw a war show on TV these days, that showed Osprey being used effectively in Libya, mainly for its fly-by-wire and silent flight that caught the target man by surprise.
When I first got the news of The Surgical Strike (since it's the first by Indians, reported openly and loudly we can call it "The Surgical Strike"), I thought about Osprey. It could be very effective in such operations.
As per wiki, V-22 has service ceiling of about 25,000 ft (7,620 m) .In a dense AD environment such as exists in PoK no helo is really worth risking.
However, I am mildly confident that the GoI is serious in equipping R&AW's Special Group with the CV-22. What these fellows might do with such long range assets is open for our imagination
@Kunal Biswas @Gessler @PARIKRAMA
Considering that Indian Air Force rejected Airbus tanker and now KC-46 is in the race, could this be another indication of the IAF or IN being serious about the Ospreys, or at least, that they are keeping the doors open for this acquisition if its need intensifies in the future?According to Boeing, KC-46 is particularly attractive to Japan as it will be capable of refuelling the Japan Air Self-Defense Force’s planned fleet of Bell-Boeing MV-22 Osprey helicopters.
Does India need the V-22 Osprey?Need. That often powerless little word in the world of military modernisation globally — and certainly in India. Far more powerful impulses edge out straitlaced motivations like actual need in militaries. For instance, diplomatic necessity. Or, as a bite-the-bullet bridge to something bigger. Or, simply, want. So let’s re-frame that question: does India want the V-22 Osprey in any form? Well, here’s the thing. It’s complicated. And Livefist has some exclusive new information indicative of a structured plan Boeing is looking to pursue towards actually landing a deal for the Osprey in India.
India first solicited interest in the V-22 at the start of this decade in late 2010. First and second level of detail presentations were promptly made to the Indian Air Force. In 2012, Boeing confirmed that preliminary discussions were under way and that they saw a good deal of interest from India:
In 2013, the Indian Navy joined the conversation, throwing a glance at the V-22 and thinking of it for the carrier logistics and re-supply role. The navy dialed the US Navy asking for price and availability data on the Osprey platform. In 2015, reports emerged that the Indian military (presumably the Indian Air Force) was interested in procuring six V-22s for ‘rapid troop insertion in border areas’. Things have swum along in the realm of information sharing and presentations so far, understandably with less than a fraction of the expense or aggression being poured into more concrete programmes like the F/A-18 Super Hornet or the successfully concluded Apache & Chinook deals. The V-22, after all, doesn’t address a direct, clearly defined requirement — nor would it immediately figure in a prospective list of aircraft purchase priorities. Nevertheless, Livefist learns there’s a serious campaign afoot.
Top sources at Boeing tell Livefist the company is aiming to bring India on board as an operator of the V-22 Osprey within the next decade — by 2025 to be precise. As part of ongoing shape and capture opportunities, which saw Japan sign on as the first intetnational customer of the V-22 last year, Boeing is looking at 2025 as the year by which India should be a customer of the V-22. It is understood that airframes aimed at India will be from the third production tranche (called Multi-Year Procurement or MYP III) or the U.S. Marines MV-22 Common Configuration – Readiness and Modernization (CC-RAM) — a federal contract opportunity to beef up the Osprey, published earlier this year. This projection suggests Boeing is aiming at both a logistics-resupply role as well as a full-fledged special forces battlefield role for potential Ospreys in India. The U.S. Marine Corps, it has been known for a while, are looking to lethalize their MV-22s with a slew of arms add-ons, including rockets, mini-guns and missiles.
The U.S. Navy, currently validating the V-22 (it will ultimately be called the CMV-22B in naval service) for carrier on-board delivery to replace its C-2A Greyhound fleet starting 2018 has had hiccups. When your correspondent visited the U.S. Navy’s Naval Air Station Oceana in Virginia earlier this month, Commander Scott Miller
, an F/A-18 pilot with many tours on board aircraft carriers sounded skeptical about the Osprey. He highlighted two issues he saw as as big worries: the time it took for a V-22 to fold up (and that when it landed, it pretty much stopped all other air ops on deck), and the fact that its downward pointing nacelle exhaust plumes melted the flight deck surface coating on carriers during tests. Asked for a comment on these two issues, Rick Lemaster, Boeing’s Director, Global Sales & Marketing for Tiltrotor Programs said these were common ‘myths’ about the V-22. He said the Osprey folded up in 90 seconds, and a standard operating procedure had been evolved during carrier landings for Osprey pilots to oscillate the nacelles every few minutes to ensure there was no flightdeck burn. While this to-and-fro between the U.S. Navy and Boeing may be expected to continue, the question is of India.
The Indian Navy has been known for a while to want a variety of carrier-launched capabilities, chiefly logistics & resupply, but also carrier-launched airborne early warning and anti-submarine warfare. Boeing’s Lemaster confirms the programme has been lately looking at early warning radars and other kit that could convert the Osprey into an AEW/ASW/ASuW platform — part of what the U.S. Marine Corps wants for the aircraft anyway.
Starting with the P-8I deal of 2009 and C-17 deal in 2011, Boeing has had a relentlessly successful run with the Indian military, scoring big wins with twin rotorcraft deals with the Indian Air Force and Harpoon missiles for the Indian Navy. Several platforms like the V-22 wait in the wings as it were to service potential Indian interest. These include the AH-6i Little Bird and 737 AEW&C Wedgetail, both part of Boeing’s catalogue on the Indian table. Others like the InSitu Scan Eagle are part of active contests.
But the V-22 faces a combination of challenges in country — budget, acquisition priority in the medium term and a visible absence of any convincing reason to acquire the sort of capability that the Osprey offers to the Indian combat requirement vis-a-vis, say, what the incoming Chinooks would easily deliver. Then again, Boeing’s track record suggests they’ve been able to read Indian requirements and ‘capture’ them pretty well. And they’ve got a specific 2025 deadline to score.
EXCLUSIVE: The Lowdown On Osprey’s Indian Hover
Shiv Aroor Nov 22 2016 9:30 AM
US Marines Corporal disembarked from a V-22 in Nimroz, Afghanistan / PHOTO: US DOD
Preliminary discussions on V-22 on with India. We see a good deal of interest, says @BoeingDefense‘s Mark Kronenberg.
— Livefist (@livefist) July 25, 2012
Tenders are not issued for such government to government or company to government deal of an already specified aircraft.due to its versatility,speed etc etc It will be the best thing IA and IAF can have if tender is not the issue
:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:
Tenders are not issued for such government to government or company to government deal of an already specified aircraft.
Time will tell us....but red tape and time is issued in any case:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:
dornier 228 a 40 yrs old aircraft and we will manufacture till it reaches 100 yrs just like ambassadorWe are manufacturing licensed Dornier aircraft. India should not buy V-22 unless we are given license.
Have you ever wondered what is the Unit cost of this bird ?In my opinion, the Indian navy should seriously consider the V22 osprey in the airborne tanking and Awac roles. The main reason for the same is the additional capability and flexibility that the induction of these variants of the V22 will bring to the fleet.
When it comes to the cost aspect, in my opinion, the acquisition of the V22 in a troop transport role is not justified however, this is not the case for the tanking and Awac variants. The reason being that these variants will act as force multipliers and increase the capabilities and the flexibility of existing forces (read, Mig 29 K).
Each if our STOBAR carriers can be equipped with suitable le number of V22's. The tankers will offset one of the disadvantages that the ski jump imposes on the Mig 29k (ie reduced fuel and weapon loads). The availability of an organic tanker will allow the aircraft to compromise initial fuel load out in favor of a full weapons load. Initially, they may carry fuel that is just enough for the journey till the preposition V22 tanker. Once the mid air refuelling is complete, the Mig 29 K will be fully combat ready, fuel and weapons.
The V22 increases both the range and the striking power of the carrier launched Mig 29k. Thus investment in a V22 tanker will lead to the full utilisation of the otherwise crippled Mig 29k.
While placing tankers on STOBAR carriers is fine and dandy, the distributed forward placement of V22 tankers and Awac aircraft on smaller Indian ocean islands excites me. We can be sure that on commencement of hostilities, the Chinese will try to target our ISR aircraft (AWACS etc.) these aircraft will be vulnerable to Chinese attack during airborne extended time airborne (owing to long transit between target areas and base). Also, runways on the andaman will be attacked by Chinese ballistic missiles and time will be needed to repair these airstrips. In such a contingency, the MV 22 can be relocated from the airbase to semiprepared, camouflaged sites on smaller islands. Popping up when a clearer picture is needed and landing on any of the large number of sites at its disposal.
Secondly, V22 tankers too can be used in the same way, reducing the need for IAF tankers to make long transits.V22 tankers, owing to their VTOL ability may also refused from preplaced, camouflaged buel bladders, rendezvous with duel trucks etc.
The distributed placement of these sites will also create multiple dilemmas for the attacking force. Owing to camouflage and the absence of radio transmission from these sites (due to wired communications), the destruction of these sites and the V22's that hop between the sites and never remain static will be exponentially tougher.
The V22 may, in the above mentioned manner strengthen the defence of 'Fortress Andaman'.
I'm painfully aware sir, it's around USD 75 millHave you ever wondered what is the Unit cost of this bird ?
Leave operational cost aside for a while.
First ,Don't call me sir.I'm painfully aware sir, it's around USD 75 mill
The v280 is supposed to be a more simple, more capable and cheaper tilt rotor offering, however it is not in production let alone having a tanking capability. Whether it will be available for export is a separate question
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