Indian GDP Growth to cross 8% mark This Fiscal: NITI Aayog VC

Kharavela

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SS is ranting against Modi govt. in this article.
Even if your accusation is true, Dr Swamy sounds logical. Since time immemorial, Indian economy thrives on Indian mindset of "Savings". Every family tends to save a portion of their income. But due to high rate of taxes, people try to hide their income which doesn't get into official GDP figures. Present size Indian economy is not even 50% of actual size, because of parallel cash transaction.

So, given that the first three paragraphs are a bunch of lies pooled together, you don't need to read further the prescriptions suggested by him.
The very basic problem with us is we form opinion without reading entire theory / article.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Even if your accusation is true, Dr Swamy sounds logical. Since time immemorial, Indian economy thrives on Indian mindset of "Savings". Every family tends to save a portion of their income. But due to high rate of taxes, people try to hide their income which doesn't get into official GDP figures. Present size Indian economy is not even 50% of actual size, because of parallel cash transaction.



The very basic problem with us is we form opinion without reading entire theory / article.

I read the whole article and while parts of it make sense because it is general, the disease he is arguing about does not exist in India because there is no hot short-term foreign capital in India nor India has very open capital account nor India is small.

The problem of Indians is that they take everything as gospel truth from people they admire.

Can you please prove your point ??
Sarcasm alert.
 

Kharavela

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The problem of Indians is that they take everything as gospel truth from people they admire.
Neither I am blind admirer of Dr Swamy nor of Sri Modi. I prefer logic & reason to understand issues.

Sarcasm alert.
No, no, I am serious. Want a healthy debate on "How come Dr Swamy is Filthy Communal Person".
 
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Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Heard about P-Note ?? Mauritius route of FII ??
Think in terms of percentage exposure. Stock markets although market barometer is not a big market in case of India. Also use of P-notes as % of FII has come down:

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/todays-paper/tp-opinion/article2327342.ece
There is considerable reduction in the outstanding P-notes over the last three years.

According to data published by SEBI, P-notes outstanding is down from the record high of Rs. 4,49,613 crore in October 2007 to Rs. 1,88,325 crore towards the end of November last year. Share of P-notes in FII assets under management (AUM) is down from the peak value of 51 per cent to 16 per cent.
or see here: http://www.nseindia.com/content/us/ismr2014ch7.pdf

It is down to 10% now.

Total stake of FII is around 12% (see table 7-6 in the last pdf). So, India is nowhere close to east asian tigers when their economy heated up. Also, Indian exchange rate is floating while for those countries it was not. And India does not borrow in US$.

I do not want to go in great detail here because India has no similarity with those countries in 97.

No, no, I am serious. Want a healthy debate on "How come Dr Swamy is Filthy Communal Person".
Ask the sickulars why they hate him so much. Don't you remember how he lost his Professor position at Harvard?
 

Kharavela

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Ask the sickulars why they hate him so much. Don't you remember how he lost his Professor position at Harvard?
Ohh, I misunderstood you & thought you are one of those "Sickular" brandishing Dr Swamy.:yo:

The sickulars along with elli porki brigade hate Dr Swamy because:
1) They do not have reciprocal ammunition to his artillery fires.
2) They are scared to death thinking "How Dr Swamy can accumulates proof against them".
3) Dr Swamy never forgets nor forgives his enemies.
 

Kharavela

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Total stake of FII is around 12% (see table 7-6 in the last pdf). So, India is nowhere close to east asian tigers when their economy heated up. Also, Indian exchange rate is floating while for those countries it was not. And India does not borrow in US$.

I do not want to go in great detail here because India has no similarity with those countries in 97.
Neither I have posted nor Dr Swamy has written that India is in similar position as East Asian Tigers were during 1997. He has asked following questions:

a) Despite crude oil prices having crashed and the dollar value of the rupee having dropped in a steep devaluation, why have both exports and imports, especially the former in 23 of the 30 commodity groups, declined steadily over the last 14 months?

b) Why have household savings, which were the bulk of national domestic investments, dropped from a high of 34 per cent of GDP in 2005 to 28 per cent of GDP in 2015?

c) Why have the Non-Performing Assets (NPAs) of the public sector banks risen so sharply, in fact at a rate much higher than the rate of the new advances made by these banks?

d) When the economy needs about a $1 trillion investment in infrastructure to render ‘Make in India’ a reality, why is the actual investment in just 75 projects in Financial Year 2015-16 valued at Rs.42,749 crore, less than the amount invested in 2005-06, which was Rs.44,511 crore?

e) Why has the manufacturing sector, which provides the bulk of employment to the skilled and semi-skilled labour force, grown at an abysmally low rates of between 2 per cent and 5 per cent?

f) Why, when India’s agricultural products are among the cheapest in the world despite a low yield per hectare, are we not able to double the production and export the products abroad?
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Neither I have posted nor Dr Swamy has written that India is in similar position as East Asian Tigers were during 1997. He has asked following questions:

a) Despite crude oil prices having crashed and the dollar value of the rupee having dropped in a steep devaluation, why have both exports and imports, especially the former in 23 of the 30 commodity groups, declined steadily over the last 14 months?

b) Why have household savings, which were the bulk of national domestic investments, dropped from a high of 34 per cent of GDP in 2005 to 28 per cent of GDP in 2015?

c) Why have the Non-Performing Assets (NPAs) of the public sector banks risen so sharply, in fact at a rate much higher than the rate of the new advances made by these banks?

d) When the economy needs about a $1 trillion investment in infrastructure to render ‘Make in India’ a reality, why is the actual investment in just 75 projects in Financial Year 2015-16 valued at Rs.42,749 crore, less than the amount invested in 2005-06, which was Rs.44,511 crore?

e) Why has the manufacturing sector, which provides the bulk of employment to the skilled and semi-skilled labour force, grown at an abysmally low rates of between 2 per cent and 5 per cent?

f) Why, when India’s agricultural products are among the cheapest in the world despite a low yield per hectare, are we not able to double the production and export the products abroad?
East Asian crisis is the premise he built on. He needs to show why that is the case and how Indian economy can go into tailspin. Rather than exploring the connection, he went on ranting in the whole article.

a) India is not an export oriented country so small changes there do not affect anyone. Rupee devaluation will help exports not in the very short run because competitiveness takes some time to increase. But how would it cause a slump when exports is not huge part of Indian economy?

b) Household savings can fall due to many reasons and is not a bad thing unless it becomes too low and allows for no investment. But how would it cause a slump? Also, even more important point is that govt. can do zilch about savings. The only channel affecting it in short run is inflation-which forces people to spend rather than save, but it has been tamed for now. But in the long run as India becomes rich the savings rate will go down.

c) NPAs is not something which happened recently. Banks give loans to crony capitalists and the govt. is trying to finalize the bankruptcy bill. I am not sure it will cause a downturn any time soon because govt. is keeping a tab on it and since most NPAs are with public sector banks, it will bail them out. There is a problem here, but how will it cause downturn in 2016?

d) Govt. does not have money and private sectors doesn't want to invest. But how does that cause such a sudden crash? I would be worried if investments had fallen, but actually govt. spending on infrastructure development as well as private investment has gone up. Just pulling a figure out of hat (1 million) will make no sense here.

e) Manufacturing sector has always grown slow due to land and labor laws. But how will it cause a downturn in 2016?

f) Indian agriculture sucks because the farm size is small and leaves no money for the farmer to invest in yield enhancing measures. Govt. subsidies cannot alone alleviate this problem. But again, agriculture is 17% of GDP now and will not see huge changes this year or next. How will it cause a downturn in 2016?

Fact of the matter is that economy looks better than last year and there is no reason to be gloomy about it. Swamy is ranting because he did not get the FM portfolio.

I too think too many things need to be done and Modi govt. has not carried out real reform. But the above article was non-sense rant trying to paint a super gloomy picture of India. If Modi does not carry out the needed reforms, growth around 7% will be difficult to maintain for long run. But painting apocalyptic scenario is juvenile.
 

Kharavela

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India is not an export oriented country so small changes there do not affect anyone. Rupee devaluation will help exports not in the very short run because competitiveness takes some time to increase. But how would it cause a slump when exports is not huge part of Indian economy?
Forget about tailspin or slump. My question here is simple.
Despite devaluation of Rupee, why Export is declining steadily over last 14 months ? That indicates the basics are wrong & should be re-evaluated. Do concerned Ministries have any blueprint for growth of exports ?
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Forget about tailspin or slump. My question here is simple.
Despite devaluation of Rupee, why Export is declining steadily over last 14 months ? That indicates the basics are wrong & should be re-evaluated. Do concerned Ministries have any blueprint for growth of exports ?
Ministry can do nothing. Indian manufacturing sucks and hence low value of exports. Also, devaluation helps in long run.

Some maths:

lets say total export value = X.G
X= Exchange rate
G= Exported goods quantity

So, it is like price*quantity. Now you reduce exchange rate, so export value = X1.G

and X1.G < X.G

Exports can only increase with increase in G, which takes more time than exchange rate devaluation. So, G needs to become G1>G. So, it will happen over time i.e. minimum 3-4 years.
 

Kharavela

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b) Household savings can fall due to many reasons and is not a bad thing unless it becomes too low and allows for no investment. But how would it cause a slump? Also, even more important point is that govt. can do zilch about savings. The only channel affecting it in short run is inflation-which forces people to spend rather than save, but it has been tamed for now. But in the long run as India becomes rich the savings rate will go down.
Just see this speech of Mr S Gurumurthy:
 

Kharavela

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Ministry can do nothing. Indian manufacturing sucks and hence low value of exports. Also, devaluation helps in long run.

Some maths:

lets say total export value = X.G
X= Exchange rate
G= Exported goods quantity

So, it is like price*quantity. Now you reduce exchange rate, so export value = X1.G

and X1.G < X.G

Exports can only increase with increase in G, which takes more time than exchange rate devaluation. So, G needs to become G1>G. So, it will happen over time i.e. minimum 3-4 years.
Your theory would have been correct in this context, if for last 14 months X1 < X. But as you know, thats not true. So the question pertains, "Why exports are sliding southward during last 14 months ?"
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Your theory would have been correct in this context, if for last 14 months X1 < X. But as you know, thats not true. So the question pertains, "Why exports are sliding southward during last 14 months ?"
It has almost fallen 10% since last year.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Its regarding Global Meltdowns & why India survived. It has contextual links to question (b) raised by Dr Swamy. Please see the full lecture.
India is a poor country with rigid laws and little or low innovation. Till a decade back, weather was the biggest shock. Also, India is closed economy when compared to others who got affected. Don't integrate with rest of the world and don't get affected by negative shock- it is not rocket science. Savings rate is important, but govt. can do nothing about long term consumer behaviour changes.
 

Kharavela

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b) Household savings can fall due to many reasons and is not a bad thing unless it becomes too low and allows for no investment. But how would it cause a slump? Also, even more important point is that govt. can do zilch about savings. The only channel affecting it in short run is inflation-which forces people to spend rather than save, but it has been tamed for now. But in the long run as India becomes rich the savings rate will go down.
Just see this speech of Mr S Gurumurthy:
Sorry, I posted wrong video earlier.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Sorry, I posted wrong video earlier.
I don't think I agree with most of his points. US interest rates have been more or less around 3-4% in normal times. The high interest rates in 70s were due to inflation. So, effectively real interest rates stay around 3-4% while nominal rate can be much high(nominal=inflation+real).



Stock markets have always paid some 5-6% more than savings rate in the long run.
 

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Great growth, it looks like in less than a decade you will break the magic 2K $ per capita. After that only sky is the limit. I am sure you will avoid the stagnation like we had: our Gdp per capita was stuck to 2000 level for decades at 1890 to 1930...

Like China you will skyrocket with growth.
 

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