Indian diplomat arrested, handcuffed in US for visa fraud

sayareakd

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They are going to get burn again. BTW we too should tight screw against US diplomats here may be we should withdraw some more things and issue notices for viloations.

not much is heard about US school in Chanakyapuri area which is run on US Embessy land illegally.
 

happy

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They are going to get burn again. BTW we too should tight screw against US diplomats here may be we should withdraw some more things and issue notices for viloations.

not much is heard about US school in Chanakyapuri area which is run on US Embessy land illegally.
I think we were waiting for the US reaction. Now that we got it, its time to act and stop playing pussy.
 

Compersion

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Ahmad Shuja Pasha

ISI, Pasha & Taj enjoy immunity in 26/11 NY Court case: US government - The Times of India

India resents U.S. plea of immunity for ISI in civil suit - The Hindu

It is nonsense to say that the USA State Department and USA Government has no control and cannot influence and also direct the USA Prosecution service and law enforcement services to move in a certain way due to geo-political and state-to-state relationships and they have not done this on reasoning (that can work either way) before. They could have easily gone and made indictments on the above individual if they wanted. there was no role on the "qualifications" and "aggressiveness" of prosecutors.

Where was the declaration signed by the Legal Advisor of the Department of State for the above (the reason for the current DK case aggressiveness one might say).

To say that the DK case and the individual involved on a fraud case that had valid diplomatic immunity and also charges of fraud criminality are difficult to accept and the whole approach on arresting - is more important and allocation of resources compared to going after Mumbai Attack perpetrators and the above individual(s) that is related to terrorism is difficult to absorb for many and i am not sure if the USA public would agree on the same (one can realign the groups at work in between).

I worry perhaps this is going to be dealt by the new government after the elections when it ought to be dealt immediately. Its been nearly 3 months and i am not sure what and if any discussion were done in MEA with US State Department - What was the outcome of those discussions for this re-indictment to be there before the elections ... after the motion to dismiss was accepted - this was done too fast and left no room for discussion for India.
 
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ladder

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Khobragade row: Livid India may opt for tit-for-tat response against US
Read more at: Khobragade row: Livid India may opt for tit-for-tat response against US | Firstpost

Excerpts

"We are disappointed that the relevant office of the United States Department of Justice chose to obtain a second indictment against an IFS officer, Dr Devyani Khobragade, despite the fact that the first indictment and arrest warrant were dismissed earlier this week.

This was an unnecessary step. Any measures consequent to this decision in the US, will unfortunately impact upon efforts on both sides to build the India-US strategic partnership, to which both sides are committed. As far as India is concerned, we reiterate that the case has no merit.

Therefore this second indictment has no impact on our stated position. Now that Dr Khobragade has returned to India, the Court in the United States has no jurisdiction in India over her. Government will therefore no longer engage on this case in the United States' legal system."

In one sentence, the Indian response can be paraphrased in simple and naked terms thus: "You Americans can go and climb a wall, but we Indians will not budge an inch from our previously stated position."

Read more at: Khobragade row: Livid India may opt for tit-for-tat response against US | Firstpost
 
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JMM99

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I get lost for a few days and the judge hands down her decision. Murphy's Law never fails.

The decision was not surprising - dismissal based on the narrowest ground, leaving most issues still undecided.

The new indictment is no surprise either. PB has to appease a large and powerful group of Democrats on the East and West Coasts. One of them, Tom Lantos' daughter, has not let up on Modi one bit since she went after him years ago. So, it seems that the political battle lines are drawn clearly.

The next moves seem to be India's and DK's. While some facets of those moves may be played out in the courts, the reality of the struggle will be governed by politics, not by legalisms.

Regards

Mike
 

sayareakd

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@JMM99, India will not allow DK to go to US or where they got some sort of Jurisdiction, also GOI will hit back at US, i must tell you lot of laws are being violated in New Delhi by those US diplomatic staff.
 
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ladder

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I get lost for a few days and the judge hands down her decision. Murphy's Law never fails.

The decision was not surprising - dismissal based on the narrowest ground, leaving most issues still undecided.

The new indictment is no surprise either. PB has to appease a large and powerful group of Democrats on the East and West Coasts. One of them, Tom Lantos' daughter, has not let up on Modi one bit since she went after him years ago. So, it seems that the political battle lines are drawn clearly.

The next moves seem to be India's and DK's. While some facets of those moves may be played out in the courts, the reality of the struggle will be governed by politics, not by legalisms.

Regards

Mike
Hi, Mike. Welcome Back!

AFAIK, Indian govt. will not pursue this case in US court any more.

......................Government will therefore no longer engage on this case in the United States' legal system."
Above quote is a part of statement of MEA spokesperson.

So, DK for foreseeable future will be a fugitive from US courts.

But, diplomacy may play out. But I think only after Indian elections. Now everybody is busy with the Juggernaut called Indian general elections and this incident doesn't seem to feature in election campaigns.
 

W.G.Ewald

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I get lost for a few days and the judge hands down her decision. Murphy's Law never fails.

The decision was not surprising - dismissal based on the narrowest ground, leaving most issues still undecided.

The new indictment is no surprise either. PB has to appease a large and powerful group of Democrats on the East and West Coasts. One of them, Tom Lantos' daughter, has not let up on Modi one bit since she went after him years ago. So, it seems that the political battle lines are drawn clearly.

The next moves seem to be India's and DK's. While some facets of those moves may be played out in the courts, the reality of the struggle will be governed by politics, not by legalisms.

Regards

Mike
What about a civil suit by DK against the prosecutor; is that feasible?

Are Chuck Schumer's fingerprints on any of this? I may contribute to a DK legal fund myself.

I would like to see an explanation for Democrat antipathy against the accused, or against India for that matter.
 

JMM99

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Hi everybody; and thank you for the welcome back.
@W.G.Ewald raises some points also material to comments by others:

[1] What about a civil suit by DK against the prosecutor; is that feasible?

[2] Are Chuck Schumer's fingerprints on any of this? I may contribute to a DK legal fund myself.

[3] I would like to see an explanation for Democrat antipathy against the accused, or against India for that matter.
1. The best civil suit avenue would be a Federal Tort Claims Act action for damages against the United States. Suits against individual Federal officers are possible under special ("Bivens") circumstances; see CRS report, Federal Tort Claims Act (2007) (especially pp.18-29). That being said, an FTCA action must be brought in Federal District Court (SDNY would be a proper venue). You can see the difficulty presented for DK to appear personally in that action, given the presently outstanding "new" indictment. So, that indictment would seem more of a protective barrier for the USG, PB, etc., than a serious attempt at prosecuting DK.

Civil actions against other sovereign states are normally barred in US courts by the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act (mentioned in some recent posts in this thread). That US law does not confer absolute immunity (Permanent Mission of India v. City of New York), especially with respect to individuals holding office (Samantar v. Yousuf). That raises the question whether the US or US officials can be sued in Indian courts - does India have a similar "foreign sovereign immunities" doctrine (not my area of competence) ?

2. Chuck Schumer's fingerprints are all over this. I presented the evidence of the connections in this post (#3407), linking PB and Sen. Schumer, the East Coast and West Coast Demos - and even Tom Lantos' daughter's vendetta vs Mr Modi. I've also stated that all of these people are gun-banners; I'm a life member of the NRA and a patron member of the Second Amendment Foundation; and these folks are not of my community.

3. Their antipathy is not against Indians in general, or against India itself. In fact, I'd wager that each and every one of the persons I name in post #3407 would say - if asked - that they are acting in the best interests of India and Indians. Their antipathy is for anyone whom they perceive as standing in the way of their liberal-progressive globalist interventionist goals. Just as examples, we can take Tom Lantos and his daughter. Rep. Lantos introduced the existing "human trafficking" legislation in 2007; see, e.g., U.S. Congress Bill to Stem the Scourge of Human Trafficking (19 Oct 2007):

Washington, DC – Congressman Tom Lantos (D-CA), Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, today introduced a bill to step up U.S. diplomatic efforts to combat the scourge of human trafficking worldwide.

Lantos co-authored the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2007 (H.R. 3887) with Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ) and Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-MI). Nine other House members are original co-sponsors of the bill, which is named for the parliamentarian whose work led to the abolition of slavery in the British Empire in the early 19th Century.

"This legislation addresses the fundamental right of every human being to live in freedom and safety," Lantos said. "More and more countries are failing to make any effort at all to combat human trafficking. Many of them are at the same time seeking to improve their relations with the United States. We should be sure they understand that doing so will require demonstrating a shared interest in wiping out slavery and trafficking in our times."
...
At a Foreign Affairs Committee hearing on human trafficking this morning, members heard testimony from a young Tanzanian woman who had been forced to work without pay for four years for a diplomat from her country working at the embassy in Washington.

"We were all moved by the experiences of the courageous young woman who told us today of how she was forced to work in atrocious conditions for zero pay," Lantos said. "Her tragic story should inspire all of us to do everything in our power to put an end to the disgrace of human trafficking around the globe – and starting in our own back yard."
DK was simply the latest diplomat of whom an example was sought to be made.

Tom Lantos' daughter is involved in religious interventions - and I'm sure she'd say all for humanitarian reasons and in the best interests of the indigenes. Mr Modi ran afoul of her cannons and she is not about to back down; see, e.g., A Conversation With Katrina Lantos Swett, on Religious Freedom in India (NYT, by Maroosha Muzaffar, 13 Aug 2013):

Q. Indian courts have not yet found any evidence of Mr. Modi's involvement in the 2002 violence in Gujarat. You say that there are still some grave allegations, some doubts hanging over his role in the 2002 riots.

A. As you know, one of his ministers (Maya Kodnani) was recently convicted for her role in these events. Given the nature of the way the governments function, it is highly unlikely at the very least that this minister would have been engaged to the degree that she was without the knowledge, without the direction from Mr. Modi. There is of course the very damning sworn notarized affidavit of former deputy commissioner of police Sanjeev Bhatt, which is really an eyewitness account. He is not simply providing sworn testimony as to events that happened on the streets. His testimony is also regarding things that were said by Mr. Modi in his presence. There are very powerful letters that were signed by 65 members of the lower house and upper house and they cite a number of grave concerns.

And let's set aside, just for a moment, whether or not Mr. Modi was directly complicit in the events of 2002. There is a lot to be troubled about what has happened since or what has failed to happen. Legal accountability, you know, when you think of the numbers that were killed, the incredible number of rapes, the vast displacement, the burning and trashing of property, there should have been by now significant numbers of people held legally accountable. We find that that really hasn't happened.

There have been very few convictions. One of the things that concern us is that Mr. Modi seems more concerned with rehabilitating his own reputation than with providing recompense and rehabilitation for the surviving victims of those terrible events. Where are the reparations that have been paid? Where are the public apologies, public accounting for what went on? These to me are all indications that to some degree we are seeing a very ambitious man more focused on his political rehabilitation than on really righting the wrongs.

I think there is a difference between whether or not one can be held legally liable or accountable for something and going so far as to say a clean bill of health, a clean chit. Certainly in our system of justice you can be found not guilty, which is not the same thing as found innocent.

Under these circumstances we should follow our laws, which say that we should not give a visa. Of course Mr. Modi wants us to reverse our position because that would be part of his rehabilitation process. But perhaps it would be more instructive for observers and analysts and voters in India to have that piece of information as they evaluate whether or not he is the man who should lead India.
In Mr Modi's case, the targeting was selective - based on his high profile.

Regards

Mike
 
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ladder

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So can we infer that DK was targeted because of India's support to Bangladesh ??
Can't positively conclude about what you have written. But, what can be positively inferred is that this type of civil suits will grow ( even if not criminal cases like DK) as DK case has provided necessary publicity about the new ways and means of immigration and income. This will continue unabated till US courts, takes cognizance of the maid's words over the diplomats ( majority cases boils down to that) in awarding civil suits.
 

Compersion

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Can't positively conclude about what you have written. But, what can be positively inferred is that this type of civil suits will grow ( even if not criminal cases like DK) as DK case has provided necessary publicity about the new ways and means of immigration and income. This will continue unabated till US courts, takes cognizance of the maid's words over the diplomats ( majority cases boils down to that) in awarding civil suits.
Some will say that there is no similarity and inference available since the DK case and the above Bangladesh case are wide apart this would include the following in respect to DK (hence the reason for the strong reaction by India):

- The Arrest.
- Denial of Diplomatic Immunity while it was there.
- Impact on Children
- Issue of T-3 Visa to the accusers family
- Evacuation of family while legal process alive in India and known to USA
- Impact on international relations between USA and India
- Prejudicial statements
- Official passport
- Criminal Charges (most importantly)

If DK was "sued" would India have reacted like they did. Being sued is much different to what DK went through and also the charges are much different for the above. Seeking "unspecified damages" does not deny diplomatic immunity. Having the possibility of being sent to jail does. How would anyone like to be called a "fraud" compared to "breaking contractual obligations". The latter also is not a felony ultimately. Further seeking damages entails the prospect of negotiation and discussion outside the courts whereas being charged on criminal charges is a different ball game all together.

The focus needs to be on why DK has been labelled a "Fraud" and also charged on a serious crime - is it with the purpose of USA justifying its denial of immunity. Why the Bangladesh counsel not charged with the same circumstances. Did the Bangladesh counsel lie on the visa form and on what visa did the accuser come on.

I do not think there have been a comparable precedent to what happened to DK. Whereas there are many precedents to what happened to the Bangladesh person - there was news on Taiwanese counsel and another country.

This has been put on the side for now but i am sure the next administration will take this up and it deserves a proper closure and response.

Has anyone also thought another reason why USA wants less use of domestic servants from the country of origin of the diplomats. Its is probably to allow penetration of the residences and use by domestic servants from within USA and the whole foundation around that.

It would be best if the EAM stated that for national security reasons the domestic servants would continue to come from India alone the question is how it would be done without any silly ramifications since India plays by principle.

It would be silly if USA and India say that the current way is good (use of official passport) now that everyone knows what is happening. 3 months of talking there must be something where a person requires higher authority to step-in.
 
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happy

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Can't positively conclude about what you have written. But, what can be positively inferred is that this type of civil suits will grow ( even if not criminal cases like DK) as DK case has provided necessary publicity about the new ways and means of immigration and income. This will continue unabated till US courts, takes cognizance of the maid's words over the diplomats ( majority cases boils down to that) in awarding civil suits.
This was America's reaction to the below development. It is known that India support Hasina and US backs Zia. So I was wondering whether the US actions against DK was in retaliation for India support to Hasina ??

Bangladesh indicts former Prime Minister Khaleda Zia - The Times of India

DHAKA, Bangladesh: A court in Bangladesh's capital on Wednesday indicted a former prime minister and leading opposition figure in two related cases involving charges of corruption for allegedly using an illegal fund to buy land for a charity named after her late husband.
Judge Basudeb Roy accepted the charges against Khaleda Zia, who was present in the court.

Defense lawyer Khandker Mahbub Uddin said the charges that Zia had illegally collected more than $1 million in donations for the charity named after late President Ziaur Rahman were not true.

Zia says she is innocent and the charges are politically motivated. Authorities deny the allegations.

Pressing the charges against Zia could further complicate the country's tense political situation. Zia's party and her allies boycotted troubled January 5 elections in which Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina returned to power with an overwhelming majority.

Zia has vowed to restart protests against Hasina to oust her from power, but Hasina has said she would stand tough against any such moves in the South Asian nation, which is a parliamentary democracy.

Zia heads the charity, which she established during her latest premiership, in 2001-2006.
 

ladder

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This was America's reaction to the below development. It is known that India support Hasina and US backs Zia. So I was wondering whether the US actions against DK was in retaliation for India support to Hasina ??
Can be. But, diplomats are a small fry when you are talking w.r.t political vendetta in the subcontinent. She can be easily sacrificed for political cause. If DK is the best response USA could muster for India's support for AL and Bangladesh then US have simply lost the plot, even before it started.

The DK episode couldn't have been a pinprick for India's foreign policy even if it went horribly wrong, but the way it worked out, I have lesser complains.
Virtually it's for everybody to see who has egg on his face.

I would like to place suits against PM Singh, Sonia Gandhi and Kamal Nath by SFJ a level higher in the 'irk' quotient.
 

ladder

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Now, Bangladeshi diplomat in soup
Now, Bangladeshi diplomat in soup - The Hindu

Excerpts

Masud Parvez Rana, a Bangladeshi national, has claimed in the Manhattan federal court that Monirul Islam, Bangladesh Consul General in New York, and his wife, Fahima Tahsina Prova, promised to pay him $3,000 per month and provide "good working conditions" if he agreed to be their domestic worker in the U.S., according to both U.S. and Bangladesh media.
The consul general said that he had to leave the U.S. for Morocco by the first week of April after being appointed as the Bangladesh's ambassador there. He said he even offered Mr. Rana to go with him in Morocco if he wants to, or else he will have to go back to Bangladesh.
Mr. Rana's attorney incidentally is Dana Sussman, who represents Sangeeta Richard in the case against Devyani Khobragade.
====================

Isn't the excerpts, have a surprising ( not so surprising for Indians) similarity with the 3 previous cases involving Indian diplomats and their maids in the USA?
 

Jagdish58

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For one thing i admire UPA government is for their stand on this row :thumb:
 

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