Indian diplomat arrested, handcuffed in US for visa fraud

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
:hmm:

I didn't know that executives of international organizations can be considered as diplomats. I thought the idea of diplomats and diplomatic immunity pertained only to state-to-state relations.
So does this mean the head of FIFA can also use diplomatic immunity. Sounds ridiculous.
Limited immunity from case to case basis. So not all diplomats from all international organisation get immunity, also,they don't derive their immunity from Vienna convention.

The Convention does not cover the personnel of international organizations, whose privileges are decided upon on a case-by-case basis, usually in the treaties founding such organizations. The United Nations system (including its agencies, which comprise the most recognizable international bodies such as the World Bank and many others) has a relatively standardized form of limited immunities for staff traveling on U.N. laissez-passer; diplomatic immunity is often granted to the highest-ranking officials of these agencies. Consular officials (that do not have concurrent diplomatic accreditation) formally have a more limited form of immunity, generally limited to their official duties. Diplomatic technical and administrative staff also have more limited immunity under the Vienna Convention; for this reason, some countries may accredit technical and administrative staff as attaché.
Diplomatic immunity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
@asianobserve

Despite his initial declaration of immunity, he later told a detective in the NYPD's special victims squad, "I'm not trying to use that. I just want to know if I need a lawyer."

"That's up to you," the detective answered.

After speaking to his lawyer, he said he was instructed not to talk. "I was ready to talk," Mr. Strauss-Kahn said.
Narrative of Strauss-Kahn's Arrest - WSJ.com
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Blackwater

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
21,156
Likes
12,211
i think sexual relation between preet bahara(us attorney) and indian diplomat gone wrong


:lol::lol::lol:
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
Employer abuse[edit]
Diplomatic immunity from local employment and labor law when employing staff from the host country has precipitated abuse. The local staff are employed where local knowledge is needed (such as an administrative assistant, press/PR officer), or as menial staff like a cleaner, maid or mechanic. When the employer is a diplomat, the employees are in a legal limbo where the laws of neither the host country nor the diplomat's country are enforceable, so that an abusive diplomat employer can act with virtual impunity. Diplomats have ignored local laws concerning minimum wages, maximum working hours, vacation and holidays. The worst abusers have imprisoned the employees in their homes, deprived them of their earned wages, passports, and communication with the outside world, abused them physically and emotionally, deprived them of food and invaded their privacy.[51][52] In the case of corrupt countries and abusive diplomats, it has been virtually impossible to enforce payment of wages or any standards whatsoever. South Africa, for example, was criticised for claiming immunity from labor laws relating to a Ukrainian domestic worker at the residence of the South African ambassador to Ireland in Ireland.[53]
The American Civil Liberties Union filed an amicus brief in Swarna v. Al-Awadi to argue that human trafficking is a commercial activity engaged in for personal profit, which falls outside the scope of a diplomat's official functions, and therefore diplomatic immunity does not apply.[54]
Diplomatic immunity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
This is what happened in Kritika Biswas case.

After USA stand that she doesn't enjoy immunity.

Act on Krittika case, Clinton told
Batra, lawyer of Krittika Biswas, sent a letter to Hillary Clinton June 1 that said: "I urge you to act and avoid possible retaliatory-reciprocity from foreign nations."
Act on Krittika case, Clinton told | TopNews


US position on diplomatic immunity wrong: Consul General
http://articles.economictimes.india...ficers-diplomatic-immunity-consular-relations


US regrets arresting Krittika Biswas, insists she did not enjoy diplomatic immunity


Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/krittika-biswas-case-us-diplomatic-immunity/1/151251.html
Case status now.

Lawsuit by Diplomat's Daughter to Continue, Judge Rules
Read more at Lawsuit by Diplomat's Daughter to Continue, Judge Rules
 
Last edited:

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
In a written reply to Biswas' lawyer Ravi Batra, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that Vienna Convention on Consular Relations (VCCR) simply did not mean what it said.


Read more at: US regrets arresting Krittika Biswas, insists she did not enjoy diplomatic immunity : Americas, News - India Today
:confused::confused::confused:

Hail USA:hail::hail::hail:


According to VCCR, if a foreign national is detained, the authorities are supposed to inform the consular post of the detainment without delay. This was not done in Biswas' case.


Read more at: US regrets arresting Krittika Biswas, insists she did not enjoy diplomatic immunity : Americas, News - India Today
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
Well the Judge that issued the Warrant of Arrest against Mr. Kahn certainly would have known who he is as his position would have been alleged in the complaint and the reason why he is not covered by diplomatic immunity. Yet we all know that the judge still issued the Warrant of Arrest against him.

And while it's true that he did not raise an immunity defense in the criminal action he did raise it in the civil suit against him...

The case "must be dismissed," asserted lawyer Amit Mehta, because Strauss-Kahn enjoyed diplomatic immunity as an "executive of a multilateral organization."
Strauss-Kahn lawyers assert diplomatic immunity in New York civil case - CNN.com

which argument was denied by the Court...

Bronx Supreme Court Justice Douglas McKeon denied a motion by Strauss-Kahn's lawyers to dismiss the lawsuit, which was filed by a hotel maid who accused him of sexual assault last year.

xxx

"We are extremely pleased with Judge McKeon's well-reasoned and articulate decision recognizing that Strauss-Kahn is not entitled to immunity," said attorney Douglas H. Wigdor. "We have said all along that Strauss-Kahn's desperate plea for immunity was a tactic designed to delay these proceedings and we now look forward to holding him accountable for the brutal sexual assault that he committed."
Judge denies Strauss-Kahn immunity claim - CNN.com
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
In the United States, several levels of immunity are granted: the higher the rank, the greater the immunity. Diplomatic Agents and their immediate families have the most protection and are immune from criminal prosecution and civil lawsuits. The lowest level of protection is granted to embassy and consular employees, who receive immunity only for acts that are part of their official duties—for example, they cannot be forced to testify in court about the actions of the people they work with. The Diplomatic Relations Act of 1978 [22 U.S.C.A. § 254a et seq.] follows the principles introduced by the Vienna conventions.
Diplomatic Immunity legal definition of Diplomatic Immunity. Diplomatic Immunity synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
Well the Judge that issued the Warrant of Arrest against Mr. Kahn certainly would have known who he is as his position would have been alleged in the complaint and the reason why he is not covered by diplomatic immunity. Yet we all know that the judge still issued the Warrant of Arrest against him.

And while it's true that he did not raise an immunity defense in the criminal action he did raise it in the civil suit against him...


Strauss-Kahn lawyers assert diplomatic immunity in New York civil case - CNN.com

which argument was denied by the Court...


Judge denies Strauss-Kahn immunity claim - CNN.com
No, arrest warrant can be issued even without knowing his diplomatic status.

Diplomatic immunity kicks in only when invoked.

For the rest, Read the post again, I have cleared them all.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
No, arrest warrant can be issued even without knowing his diplomatic status.

Diplomatic immunity kicks in only when invoked.

For the rest, Read the post again, I have cleared them all.

I have yet to see the Complaint against Mr. Kahn. But in the case of Ms. Khobragade it is alleged in the Complaint itself that she is employed as a Deputy Consul General for political, economic, commercial and women's affairs at the Indian Consulate General at New York. But it is also alleged in the Complaint that she is only allowed limited immunity and the immunity only applies to official acts.

A copy of the Complaint against Ms. Khobragade is attached to the web page I attached below. The allegation of her limited immunity is in paragraph 4 of the Complaint.

Manhattan U.S. Attorney Announces Arrest Of Indian Consular Officer For Visa Fraud And False Statements In Connection With Household Employee's Visa Application

I think also prosecutors are required to divulge all relevant facts that should aid the Judge in his preliminary assessment of a complaint against a defendant. So an important fact like the possible diplomatic immunity of a defendant would not escape being mentioned in the Complaint.
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
I have yet to see the Complaint against Mr. Kahn. But in the case of Ms. Khobragade it is alleged in the Complaint itself that she is employed as a Deputy Consul General for political, economic, commercial and women's affairs at the Indian Consulate General at New York. But it is also alleged in the Complaint that she is only allowed limited immunity and the immunity only applies to official acts.

A copy of the Complaint against Ms. Khobragade is attached to the web page I attached below. The allegation of her limited immunity is in paragraph 4 of the Complaint.

Manhattan U.S. Attorney Announces Arrest Of Indian Consular Officer For Visa Fraud And False Statements In Connection With Household Employee's Visa Application

I think also prosecutors are required to divulge all relevant facts that should aid the Judge in his preliminary assessment of a complaint against a defendant. So an important fact like the possible diplomatic immunity of a defendant would not escape being mentioned in the Complaint.
We are back at square one @asianobserve, who has the authority to determine that by doing what she has done, has she acted in her official or personal capacity?

Also, arrest warrant can be issued, even if name is unknown, provided the description given of the person is positively identifiable.:rolleyes:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
Par. 4 of the Complaint against Ms. Khobragade:

"4. Since in or about November 2012, DEVYANI KHOBRAGADE, the defendant, has been employed as the Deputy Consul General for POlitical, Economic, Commercial and Women's Affairs at the Consulate General of India in New York, New York. Based on my review on an official database of the U.S. Department of State, and my conversations with an employee of the Protocol section of the U.S. Department of State, which is the entity that accredits foreign diplomats and determines immunity levels, I know that KHOBRAGADE enjoys limited immunity with respect only to those acts undertaken in her official capacity."

It is clear that the Judge was aware of Ms. Khobragade's position and that she has determined that the acts complained against the latter is not covered by her limited diplomatic immunity.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
We are back at square one @asianobserve, who has the authority to determine that by doing what she has done, has she acted in her official or personal capacity?.:rolleyes:

You don't have to be a legal luminary to know that falsifying visa documents of a personal domestic helper (the helper was not being paid by the Indian Government remember?) is not part of her duties as the Deputy Consul General for Political, Economic, Commercial and Women's Affairs at the Consulate General of India in New York... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

roma

NRI in Europe
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,582
Likes
2,538
Country flag
we should also handcuff some of the wives of usa diplomatic staff and throw them into indian prisons
for allegation of mistreating their domestic workers

give them some of their own medicine

why didnt the indian embassy hire workers for their staff - why make the diplomats have to do it on their own ?
there should be a personnel officer in the indian embassy or consulate handling all these secondary matters ?
 
Last edited:

Free Karma

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
2,372
Likes
2,600
we should also handcuff some of the wives of usa diplomatic staff and throw them into indian prisons
for allegation of mistreating their domestic workers

give them some of their own medicine
that is probably the best thing to do if they U.S just bluntly refuse...but it wont happen, things will just go on because the situation will become extremely strained, from that point

Actually..if we found a Pakistani diplomat faking a visa for someone, what would the reaction be? I wonder...might be different scenario given the highly fragile relationship.

offtopic...but who is that lady in your profile pic? :D
 
Last edited:

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
we should also handcuff some of the wives of usa diplomatic staff and throw them into indian prisons
for allegation of mistreating their domestic workers

give them some of their own medicine

It would be perfectly within the power o Indian prosecutors to file cases against lower ranking foreign diplomatic staff and their families in India for acts that are not official in nature and violative of the Indian criminal law. But then why no such cases are being filed?
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
You don't have to be a legal luminary to know that falsifying visa documents of a personal domestic helper (the helper was not being paid by the Indian Government remember?) is not part of her duties as the Deputy Consul General for Political, Economic, Commercial and Women's Affairs at the Consulate General of India in New York... :rolleyes::rolleyes:
If it were so, open and shut then why are every one including our foreign department crying foul?

True I am not legal luminary, but if you are please answer my question, which is still being unanswered.

Article 43 Immunity from jurisdiction[edit]
1. Consular officers and consular employees shall not be amenable to the jurisdiction of the judicial or administrative authorities of the receiving State in respect of acts performed in the exercise of consular functions.
2. The provisions of paragraph 1 of this Article shall not, however, apply in respect of a civil action either:
(a) arising out of a contract concluded by a consular officer or a consular employee in which he did not contract expressly or impliedly as an agent of the sending State; or
(b) by a third party for damage arising from an accident in the receiving State caused by a vehicle, vessel or aircraft.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Consular_Relations


Article 47 Exemption from work permits[edit]
1. Members of the consular post shall, with respect to services rendered for the sending State, be exempt from any obligations in regard to work permits imposed by the laws and regulations of the receiving State concerning the employment of foreign labour.
2. Members of the private staff of consular officers and of consular employees shall, if they do not carry on any other gainful occupation in the receiving State, be exempt from the obligations referred to in paragraph 1 of this Article.

@asianobserve sir please decode the legal jargon for me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

roma

NRI in Europe
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,582
Likes
2,538
Country flag
modi should jump on this as weakness of UPA gov

he'll be glad not to get visa for usa

now he can laugh at the indian republicans who lobby against him
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
If it were so, open and shut then why are every one including our foreign department crying foul?

Totally expected. In the first place an accused is always presumed innocent, and it is perfectly within the right of the Indian Government (a duty actually) to see to it that no Indian citizen, much less a Deputy Consul General (who would be well connected within the Indian political elites), is unduly prejudiced abroad.

But what is not being considered here is that this incident is not started by the Americans only to embarrass the Indian Government (what would the Americans get out from it?). The criminal charge is started by the Indian maid who undoubtedly have complained before American authorities about underpayment of wages.
 
Last edited:

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
Totally expected. In the first place an accused is always presumed innocent.

But what is not being considered here is that this incident is not started by the Americans only to embarrass the Indian Government (what would the Americans get out from it?). The criminal charge is started by the Indian maid who no doubt complained before American authorities.
ha ha, fine but there had been 3 such incidents where maids/personal employee have complained against India council officers. I don't find the response being same. Btw, haven't answered my questions and about article 47 quoted in post 37
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top