Indian Democracy Watch

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by SANITY, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. SANITY

    SANITY Regular Member

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    A thread for keeping eye on the state of Democracy in the nation; For discussions/debates on promotion and progress/decline in the the founding principles of the nation, it's diverse, multi-cultural, pluralistic society and related news, articles on inter-faith/caste harmony, tolerance etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
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  3. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    Get schooled ya commie we rockin freedom up in this b*tch triple h style:hat:


     
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  4. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    High time that we scrap these founding principles of India which is based on multi pluralism , Gandian principles etc.

    Now is the time to expose these foreing funded Anti India NGOs and peaceniks who keep talking about Multi culturism, Pluralistic society, peace, harmony & tolerance. India is a way too tolerant & peaceful country when it comes to dealing with enemies within India.

    India is a land of Hindus with 2nd majority population as muslims so this type of founding pricinples will be harmful & disatrous for India. I hope sense prevails among the masses & current generation should be very careful.
     
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  5. SANITY

    SANITY Regular Member

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    After we scrap these values and principle which some try to discredit in our unity by calling it Gandhian even though it all comes from our own belief and value system. Read any hindu scriptures, tales, Gita etc, you get the same message. Once scraped, there will be infighting.

    If there are foreign funded NGO's that operate with real intention of hurting India/Indian society, they definitely need to be exposed. Not to call someone anti-India for advocating peace or pluralism.


    That's the rectification needed where we are too tolerant. Not where braindead people like Adityanath, Sankaracharya, hindu fundamentalists keep spitting hatred for non-hindus, ask hindus to not worship Sai Baba or teach what and how women should wear or behave etc.

    Neither Indian muslims are war monger nor do they have enough number to pose us the threat you speak of. The kind of free-thinking society we have, all religions with the touch of superstition or excess conservatism will eventually lose their relevance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  6. raheel besharam

    raheel besharam Regular Member

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    are you bengali??

    _______________________
     
  7. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    After we scrap these values and principle which some try to discredit in our unity by calling it Gandhian even though it all comes from our own belief and value system. Read any hindu scriptures, tales, Gita etc, you get the same message. Once scraped, there will be infighting.

    I recommend to have constitution based on Hindu scriptures & Bagvad Geeta this will stop infighting. are your okay with it?


    If there are foreign funded NGO's that operate with real intention of hurting India/Indian society, they definitely need to be exposed. Not to call someone anti-India for advocating peace or pluralism.

    Under the disguise of advocating peace & pluralism these Anti India NGOs are breaking India into pieces by pitting one Indian against another Indian in the name multi cultursim & pluralism.



    That's the rectification needed where we are too tolerant. Not where braindead people like Adityanath, Sankaracharya, hindu fundamentalists keep spitting hatred for non-hindus, ask hindus to not worship Sai Baba or teach what and how women should wear or behave etc.


    Adityanath & other Hindu fundamentalist are the chain reaction due to pseudo secularism & oppression of Hindus in the land of Hindus; They are not violent when compared other desert cults. For your information Sankaracharya was born centuries ago & is not relevant to this topic. Beauty of Hinduism is that we worship all guru & gods irrespective of religions & Sai Baba is one such case. Will you worship Lord Krishna as I worship Sai Baba to uphold Multi Culturism & Pluralism in India?



    Neither Indian muslims are war monger nor do they have enough number to pose us the threat you speak of. The kind of free-thinking society we have, all religions with the touch of superstition or excess conservatism will eventually lose their relevance.


    Hindus are not war mongering as you are indicating or describing, if not Hinduism desert cults would not have thrived in India. Regarding numbers desert cults were less than 8% at the time of Indian Independence but now they are doubled & they are the 2nd majority in India. All religions in India has superstitions & beliefs; in Hinduism we can ratify & modernize it but in Abrahamic religions we will be killed if we do so. You are able to think & speak freely in India because Majority of the population in India are peaceful & accommodative to other beliefs.
     
  8. Abhinav Dharma

    Abhinav Dharma Regular Member

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    we should have Theocratic Values with giving basic minority rights to Bharats minorities
     
  9. SANITY

    SANITY Regular Member

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    A nationalism of paranoia and insecurity: Ramchandra Guha
    The historian on his new book, the death of the Congress and the Kashmir crisis.
    [​IMG]
    Indian politics is increasingly become instrumental believes Ramachandra Guha. (Express Photo by Tashi Tobgyal)
    ___________________________________________________________________________________


    In an essay on threats to freedom of expression in your new book, Democrats and Dissenters, you point out that the political class has never stood up for freedom of speech. Why is it that politicians find it unprofitable to espouse it? Is it then, as is often accused, just an elitist concern?

    Throughout the freedom movement, because there were curbs on freedom of speech imposed by the British — newspapers were often fined, sometimes banned, editors were arrested—there were continuous promises made by nationalists that when we become free, we would have freedom of speech. Gandhi said famously in Young India in 1921 that when we are free, we would remove the sedition law. He also gave a definition of freedom of speech, which says unless you explicitly advocate violence, whatever you say [should not be proscribed.]

    Why do Indian politicians not support it? Like many other betrayals of the ideals of the founding figures, this is one. Indian politics is increasingly become instrumental. It is now merely about winning elections. In fact, you are told, Modi has won for five years, you cannot criticize him. Or Mamata has won for five years, you cannot criticize her. But democracy is a process of continuous introspection, questioning and reform. This is a part of the degeneration of the Indian democracy into an elections-only democracy.

    Do you think it reflects on the people as well, that we have not demanded it of our politicians that they protect our freedom?

    Writers and intellectuals are also complicit. Too few of them are also non-aligned. I criticized Sahmat about not speaking up for Taslima Nasreen in West Bengal. The RSS will say we are in favour of protecting Salman Rushdie’s freedom of speech, and not Perumal Murugan or MF Husain’s. I don’t think the people are to blame. PEN is an organization that stands for freedom of expression. India, the largest democracy, does not have a single unit. There is clearly something wrong with us as writers and intellectuals that we cannot work across party lines or beliefs. Often, the Left is as guilty as the right — if you go back to the 1970s, the way Nurul Hasan behaved, the way liberal intellectuals were marginalized from ICSSR, ICHR, or vice-chancellorships, if you look at the conduct of the CPM in Calcutta University, which was destroyed by promoting only CPM intellectuals.


    Do you see the first amendment to the Constitution in 1951 then as the start of the slide?

    That was a bad precedent. It should have been undone by the late 1950s, when India was secure and not going to Balkanise. It was a failure of Nehru.

    You are even-handed in blaming the BJP and the Congress when it comes to not defending the right to speech. But do you not see a difference in the way the two parties and their politics work in this respect?
    [Yes]
    on intellectual work, generally, and not just on freedom of expression. The BJP is far more ideologically driven, and its standards are much lower. Academic posts, from the Congress onwards, have become instruments of patronage. So the best person is not appointed, say, as director of the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library, but the second or the third best person is because she/he is seen as more compliant to the first family. But with the BJP, it is the 20th or 30th best person. It is a party hostile to creative work, intellectual work, to thinking, to reflection. It is a profoundly anti-intellectual and Philistine party. Look at the statements our culture minister makes. Institutions that have been built up painstakingly-the ASI, the National Museum, the NGMA– are steadily being undermined. This government [is guily], more than the Vajpayee government. Because Vajpayee somewhere he believed that the arts, culture and scholarship mattered. This government does not think they matter. Economic growth and military might matter. That’s it.

    In your essay comparing the insurgencies in Kashmir and Sri Lanka, you say the “Indian arrogance towards Kashmiris have been at times so brutal and extreme as to make reasoned and non-violent protest…perhaps impossible.” How do you see the recent uprising in Kashmir?
    I think it is the gravest situation we have faced in Kashmir in many years. It’s partly the accumulation of mistakes made by previous governments. The movement for azaadi in Kashmir is increasingly inflected by Islamic fundamentalism. Today, again there is a rise of Hindu fundamentalism in India. Maybe there are wise heads in the government who want to reach out to Kashmir. But that is undermined by the activities on the ground by the Sangh Parivar, who are not fringe elements. Gau raksha now is a part of official policy in Haryana and Maharashtra, as your own paper has reported. Social media has [broadcast the] horrific images of the pellet gun injuries and, the excesses of the Indian security forces are known everywhere in the rest of India. In Bangalore in the 1990s, I had no clue of what the army was doing. Kashmir gets to see images of the flogging of Muslims and Dalits on the issue of cow. And a Kashmiri Muslim says Muslims are not safe in India and is pushed further towards the jihadis. What was a movement for autonomy, dignity and self-respect becomes a movement for Islamic pride. Let’s be clear: Burhan Wani died for Allah, not for Kashmir. It’s a very tricky and complicated situation where the two fundamentalisms reinforce and fuel each other.

    And how to move towards solving this? The first step would be for the Prime Minister and the RSS to say that we completely disavow our past positions on Article 370. It will stay and it is inviolate. In fact, we will find ways of making it more effective so that Kashmirirs have more autonomy. That is the basic minimum that has to be done to retrieve the situation. It is a complicated situation which needs sagacious statesmanship. But some of the remarks by this government after the Uri attack–what Ram Madhav said–was appalling. If Arnab Goswami was to say that, it was fine. If a BJP affiliated journalist were to say it in the Pioneer, it was fine. But for the general secretary of the party responsible for Kashmir to make such a crude and irresponsible statement shows the unwisdom in the government.

    How do you look upon the extraordinary fast of Irom Sharmila which just ended? How has the Indian state come off in this encounter?
    It is linked to something common in Kashmir and Manipur, which is the ceding of control of civilian authorities to the army. Hence AFSPA, hence immunity. It is a commentary on how our policy in these border areas is dominated by military considerations. Coming back to Kashmir, when Omar Abdullah said withdraw AFSPA in a few districts and keep it in the border areas if you will, why did the Congress government at the Centre not agree? That could have set a precedent in the border areas, which could have been applied in Manipur. These are mistakes we are still paying for.

    democrats-and-dissenters-by-ramachandra-guha.jpg
    The cover of Ramachandra Guha’s new book ‘Democrats and Dissenters’.

    The epigraph to your book is a quote by Benedict Anderson: “No one can be a true nationalist who is incapable of feeling ashamed of her [or his] government commits crimes, including those against their fellow citizens.” How do you look at this recent debate on being anti-national?
    The nationalism of Gandhi, Nehru and Ambedkar was inflected by a sense of shame. They were ashamed at our treatment of women and Dalits. Indian nationalism as conceived by them was a work in progress. It was not flawless, it was always imperfect. And the attempt would be to always strive to correct these imperfections. As opposed to a nationalism that says: “India is great”, “India is perfect”, “mera bharat mahaan”, “Bharat mata ki jai” or “worship the flag”. The idea that there should be a 207 foot high flag in every central university which you can see from everywhere and it will make you proud is utterly farcical. It is a nationalism of insecurity and paranoia parading as a nationalism of might and self-confidence.

    How do you see the JNU debate in this light? What did it achieve and what did it cede?
    Personally, I think the JNU debate is not as important to someone living in Bangalore. It was covered because the media is in Delhi.

    No, because there were sedition cases slapped on students for shouting slogans.
    Sedition cases have been slapped elsewhere also. It, of course, was a mistake. It was an excessive, knee-jerk reaction of the state. Its importance, for good or for ill, was magnified because the media is here. It is easier to cover something in JNU and not go elsewhere.

    The protests at Hyderabad University were also covered.
    Hyderabad was covered for a different reason. It was more important, there was clear victimization there. But I didn’t follow the JNU debate very carefully. I do think that to reclaim a nationalism that is reflective and interrogative is important for the Left and liberals. It has allowed the right and the RSS to say: only we are patriotic, only we are nationalists.

    I was recently reading JP on Kashmir. Here is a leader the Sangh Parivar respects. He thinks that our treatment of Kashmir is a black mark on Indian democracy, which it is. Arnab Goswami would call this hero anti-national. He says. ‘How long can we hide the facts on Kashmir?’ ‘To suppress the Kashmiris by force’, he says, ‘is a suicide of the soul of India’. Leaders like JP truly loved the country, they wanted to reform it. They were fearless in criticizing its failings. They had a sense of shame. But they were nationalists.

    Do you still believe that the Congress needs to be Gandhi-mukt?
    That was my belief till recently, till about a year ago. That it needs to rid of the Gandhis. But now I think the Congress is dead. It is terminally ill. It’s done what it has to do and it should now die. And Indians will find a way to occupy that political space.

    The RSS has spoken of reviewing the Constitution. What do you think of that idea?
    It was there in the last BJP government. Vajpayee’s government appointed a “Constitution review committee” because the RSS was saying it had to reexamined. They appointed as the chairman of the committee a man called MN Venkatachaliah, a former chief justice of India, from my home town Bangalore. He was a devout Hindu in his personal life, who did puja twice a day. He came to Delhi, got a Lutyens bungalow for two years of his term. They must have thought that because of his personal, spiritual leanings, this man would be inclined to the RSS point of view.

    He consulted scholars across the board, specialists, legal scholars, and basically
    wrote a report saying nothing needs to be done to the Constitution.
    The RSS didn’t want to hear that, but maybe Vajpayee did. He could be quite clever that way. ------------------------- RSS is neither nationalist nor Hindu and should have no say what India ought to or not to be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  10. raheel besharam

    raheel besharam Regular Member

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    Commie alert

    ________________________
     
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  11. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    ................................................................
     
  12. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    Now personally I don't want a second Sweden in the Subcontinent but it seems like a certain democracy advocate wants to cuck for these ungrateful welfare animals



    What you need is a little time on /pol/ to rethink your life
     
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  13. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    @SANITY
    Do you really think Muslims will tolerate you and let you live your own life?

    There is enough Saudi influence on Indian muslims. It is foolish to blindly trust some one.
     
  14. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    good thread to deconstruct all the fables & sob stories as well as strip naked the usual suspects piece-by-piece!

    @Ancient Indian - if he's a sunni, ofcourse. if he's a shia, cant say yet (because shia-sunni conflict in India is not yet so dense or open, because of the Hindu majority & its imposition of law of the land). if he's a khristani, no. if he's a dhimmi, no.

    the 'best' gift of Indian democracy? the apartheid mechanism of 'Indian secularism'.
     
  15. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Under the current circumstances congress was far better or APP would be far better political choice for Indians.

    And then off course we have regional parties that wiped off the floor of their respective states with backward sanghis led BJP in Bihar and WB.

    We need a national party which could keep our borders safe not checking my Biryani. The competition is between AAP and Congress.
     
  16. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    since mr. guha graced this thread first & stepped on the axe by mentioning one perumal murugan, we can begin from him...

    as @Ray sir once wrote - "It is fashionable these days to blame everything on 'rightwingers', the euphemism for the RSS, BJP, ABVP, VHP et al."

    indeed it is, the artificial segmentation that Indian secularism has created between Hindus and muslims-xtians, esp. the former, & the relentless pandering to the latter, it has ALWAYS been a fair game to go into convulsions & fits uttering the hackneyed namaz of "RSS-RSS, Hindutva-Hindutva" everytime by the jackals for any & everything. lets go piece-by-piece here hence...


    Leftist Media Slanders RSS-BJP to Uphold Freedom of Libel

    [​IMG]

    Outlook and People’s Democracy recycle The Hindu’s false report that these organisations demanded a ban on Perumal Murugan’s book. The track record of communist parties is not clean, but these media houses never point a finger at them while choosing to defame a local community with fiction masquerading as history.


    When in 2014 the community outfits of Tiruchengode, a small town famous for its temple of Ardhanarishwara (the form of Shiva as half male and half female), woke up to the controversial portrayal of their history in a Tamil novel, it had already been four years.

    [​IMG]
    Tiruchengode temple

    The controversy centred around the depiction of what came to be referred to in the English press as “traditional, free, consensual sex rituals held once in a year during the car festival of the temple in the past”. There was expected ruckus and hurt feelings. And then the charade began.


    On 27 December 2014, The Hindu reported prominently, “BJP, RSS seek ban on Tamil novel, arrest of author.” Given the fact that both the RSS and BJP are national organisations, if they were to demand the ban of a book, would they not convene a press meet and, only if a demand is made in such a press meet by a competent authority, then alone would the heading be truthful. Otherwise it was merely unethical journalism aiming to tar the party and its parent organisation as enemies of freedom of expression.

    True, some cadre belonging to these organisations have participated in protests along with other community groups, as reported in local newspapers, but the national newspaper isolated and projected these two organisations as enemies of liberty.

    Again on 12 January, the newspaper reported clear denial by the RSS and BJP. RSS spokesperson N Sadagopan had stated categorically that his organisation does not indulge in such activities. The most amazing thing is the way the fabricated news of RSS-BJP and ‘Hindutva’ outfits demanding a ban on the novel was taken up by a section of the national media.


    Here is the comparison of the report manufactured by The Hindu and The Outlook:


    The Hindu, 27 December 2014 reported-

    Alleging that Tamil writer Perumal Murugan’s novel, Madhorubhagan, has portrayed the Kailasanathar temple in Tiruchengode and women devotees in bad light, the BJP, RSS and other Hindu outfits have demanded its ban and the arrest of the author. They burnt copies of the book on Friday at Tiruchengode. … Madhorubagan… revolves around childless couple Kali and his wife, Ponna. Their predicament is discussed in the backdrop of the “traditional free, consensual sex rituals” held once in a year during the car festival of the temple in the past.

    Outlook, 27 December 2014, reported-

    The BJP, RSS and other Hindu outfits have reportedly demanded a ban on Tamil writer Perumal Murugan’s novel, Madhorubhagan, alleging that it portrays the Kailasanathar temple in Tiruchengode and women devotees in “bad light”… Madhorubagan tells the tale of a childless couple, Kali and Ponna. Their predicament is discussed in the backdrop of the “traditional free, consensual sex rituals” held once in a year during the car festival of the temple in the past.


    Now the thread is taken up by the official organ of the CPI(M), People’s Democracy dated 11 January and the write-up is by comrade SP Rajendran:


    … Alleging that Perumal Murugan’s novel, Madhorubagan, has portrayed the Kailasanathar temple in Tiruchengode and women devotees in bad light, the BJP, RSS and other Hindu outfits have demanded its ban and the arrest of the author. They burnt copies of the book on December 26 at Tiruchengode in Namakkal district. … In the novel, Ardhanareeswara, the presiding deity of Tiruchengodu temple, revolves around childless couple Kali and his wife, Ponna. Their predicament is discussed in the backdrop of the “traditional free, consensual sex rituals” held once in a year during the car festival of the temple in the past. Kali resists attempts to make his wife participate in the ritual, but in the end he is shattered when he finds her missing from home.


    So here we have fabricated news of RSS and BJP demanding a ban of a book and then the report is rehashed and recycled. Cartoons are drawn; editorials fume and ‘Hindutva’ is demonised.


    So what exactly has been the RSS track record on book banning? When this writer questioned the veracity of the report in the social media, one of the reporters of The Hindu contacted him and queried the stand of the RSS on book banning.


    Both the RSS and BJP have been very reluctant about banning books. When demands were made to ban Jeffrey Kripal’s book on Sri Ramakrishna, LK Advani rejected that demand.


    RSS had earlier stood for the publication of the Riddles of Hinduism, written by BR Ambedkar, even when the Shiv Sena demanded that the government drop it from the collected works of Ambedkar, which was to be published by the government.
    (The present writer made a factual mistake by saying that the Riddles… controversy erupted after the ban of Salman Rushdie novel. Actually it preceded the ban on The Satanic Verses.)

    Now let us also look at the track record of those who are so vocal in protecting the freedom of the expression.

    As we were about to board a car to go the railway station, the key was snatched from the driver and we were surrounded by about five muscular young men. Handsome, well-dressed and normal-looking guys. But their faces revealed a madness that only sectarian, dictatorial, fanatic politics can breed.


    No, the above is not about Murugan surrounded by the community protesters; in fact, he was never manhandled. That was Paul Zachariah, the Malayalam writer writing in
    The New Indian Express, and he was manhandled by the storm-troopers of the DYFI, the youth wing of CPI(M), because Zachariah had protested moral policing done by the communist organisation in collusion with an Islamic fundamentalist group, the PDP.


    [​IMG]
    Paul Zachariah, the Malayalam writer

    The columnist had pointed out that the early leaders of Marxist movement in Kerala lived “lavishly, indulging in sex”. The CPI(M) was the ruling party in Kerala. Three days earlier in the DYFI state conference Marxist leader and Politburo member Pinarayi Vijayan had justified the attack, drawing a very interesting parallel:


    “What would happen if a speaker tried to cast aspersions on Christ at a meeting attended by Christians only?”

    Unlike the DYFI storm-troopers, the community activists had no ideological training. They have no idea about deconstruction of post-modernism or the power of narrative that is being built about them in academic citadels of power to which they have no access. Yet despite their crude and rude way of protests, it is to their credit that they eschewed the path of violence.

    While the leftists and a section of the media see this as an opportunity to attack the party ruling at the Centre and the main school of thought it draws its people from in a blatantly fabricated campaign, the real issue transcends the problem of freedom of expression and raises some far serious issues.

    Murugan’s ‘novel’ was actually a project work undertaken under a grant from India Foundation for the Arts (IFA). The NGO, according to its website, is “a national, not-for-profit, grant-making organisation that supports practice, research and education in the arts in India”. In their 2005-06 report, the grant given to Murugan is mentioned thus - Rs 3,28,500 over two years.

    For research towards the writing of a novelised history of Tiruchengode in Namakkal district, Tamil Nadu. A town with an ancient history, Tiruchengode is today marked by its hill temple dedicated to Murugan and Ardhanareeswara but is also known for its vibrant modern industry.

    In the course of writing a historical account of Tiruchengode, the author will document references to the town in literature, folklore and mythology, analyse the town’s design and study its ritual and religious life.

    In other words, the ‘novel’ itself is not exactly a work of fiction and creative imagination. It is not a novel set in a historic milieu. It attempts to document social history of the region in the form of a novel. And the author is also duty-bound to “document references to the town in literature, folklore and mythology, analyse the town’s design and study its ritual and religious life”, as per the IFA website.


    In his review of the novel, historian Theodore Baskaran calls the ‘novel’ a repository of documentation. The reviewer specifically points to the alleged consensual extra-marital indulgence of sex by married woman on a particular day of the festival. The reviewer states that he had “known” (not seen) that such customs did exist in the local festivals of two places where he had worked.

    Then the reviewer points out that Murugan has asserted that the traditional phrases prevalent in Tamil society like ‘the God-given child’ actually refers to the child being born out of such consensual ritual sex.

    The novel has been promptly translated into English and published by Penguin. Now, in the universities both in India and around the world, this novel has turned into a document of the existence of ‘traditional free consensual sex rituals’ in Tiruchengode!

    Artboard 3 Created with Sketch.
    [​IMG]
    Perumal Murugan and the English translation of his book Madhorubagan. Photo Credit: Niticentral


    The claim of the residents of the temple town that even a nonagenarian community leader has never heard of such a tradition in the area would never reach the ivory towers of such academic institutions.


    When such an asymmetry in the power of narrative exists in our academic institutions — both within India and abroad — it becomes important for a healthy democracy and a vibrant academic discourse that the community targeted is given a chance to challenge the narrative through absolutely legal and democratic means. And in such a situation, the writer should and does have a moral right to prove the factual nature of what he had written.


    If the writer can come up with proper documentary and properly recorded oral traditions, the community should look inwards and make an unqualified apology to the writer. Freedom of expression is sacrosanct in any civil society and more so in Indian society, which has traditionally nurtured diversity and has considered loving irreverence and even blasphemy as a rightful form of adoration of the divine.

    On the other hand, if the writer cannot substantiate what he had written, he must tender an unqualified apology, not for hurting anyone’s sentiments, but for libel against the people living in the town.

    After all, the grant says clearly that he is not writing a historical novel, but novelising history, and that “in the course of writing a historical account of Tiruchengode, the author will document references to the town in literature, folklore and mythology, analyse the town’s design and study its ritual and religious life.”

    In the present Tamil literary milieu, this is of immense import. Let it be known that one of the left wing publishing houses that has published Murugan’s work has also published the translation of another fiction masquerading as history in the ongoing Chennai book exhibition: The protocols of the learned elders of Zion, translated into Tamil by Aroor Salim.

    @Tshering22 @Chinmoy @Rahul Singh @Navnit Kundu @airtel @Razor, the thread would really benefit by your presence.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
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  17. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    on spin-doctoring in the name of 'novelizing HISTORY' & resorting to the usual 'outrage' when the bluff is called...

    Perumal Murugan: Escape the Questions, Skip to Outrage

    Even while sections of elite might argue that the contents in the book should be tolerated in the name of liberalism, the factual misrepresentations relating to the temple festival and the casting of aspersion on the character of the local women supported by no evidence cannot be passed off as history


    Tiruchengode is a municipal town in the Namakkal district situated in western Tamil Nadu. The western districts of the state are collectively called the Kongu region. According to the 2011 census, its population was slightly more than 95,000. Located in what was predominantly an agricultural region, Tiruchengode presently witnesses different industrial activities in and around the town connected to rigs, power looms, textiles, bus and truck body building, besides a few others.


    During the last few decades, the Namakkal district has emerged as a major centre for educational institutions in the state, with Tiruchengode having some of them. The literacy rate of the town is 75.87 per cent, slightly higher than the national average.


    This district is a comparatively drier part of the state, with less water facilities for farming. While the people of Namakkal and adjoining villages have taken to transports and poultry farming for their livelihood, Tiruchengode went in for bore wells. When it became difficult to get water from their wells for farming activities during the 1960s, they started hiring rigs from outside to dig their wells. Within a few decades, the entrepreneurs from this area made Tiruchengode emerge as the “bore well capital of India” by expanding their operations across the length and breadth of the country. The people of this region are one of the most entrepreneurial sections in our country and their contribution to the economy of the state and the nation is very impressive.


    Tiruchengode, known all along for its Ardhanareeswara temple — that the predominant Gounder and all the other jaatis in the region closely identify with -— and bore wells, has been in the news during the past two months for wrong reasons in the national and even international media.


    One Tamil writer from the area Perumal Murugan wrote a novel titled Madhorubagan (another name for Lord Ardhanareeswara) about four years ago.


    One of the most ancient temples in this part of the state, Ardhanareeswara finds mention in the classical Sangam literature and is closely identified with the foremost of Tamil epics, Silappathikaram. There have been several literary works on the temple over the centuries beginning with the earlier periods. Its annual car festival running around 15 days is important in the lives of several thousands of people living in the nearby districts over generations.


    The book Madhorubagan is, however, a very mediocre novel from an academic with leftist leanings. Author Murugan notes that the work was undertaken through financial support from a foundation. The writer claimed that his book was based on evidence collected though his studies and field work.

    The story revolves around a childless couple from the Gounder community, who lived in the nearby village about 70 years ago. When they do not get a child, they go to the hill temple and pray for a progeny as per the custom observed by those who do not have a child. There is a spot in the hill where childless women go around and pray for the child.

    Murugan writes that on the 14th day of the car festival, women who do not have children are permitted by the family to have sex with anyone waiting there in the dark of the night. He notes that there would be a number of young men waiting for the purpose. Further he mentions that the children born out of such relationships are called “children of God” so that the elders in the family compel her to go in for such relationship as there was nothing wrong!


    Even while sections of the elite might argue that the contents in the book should be tolerated in the name of liberalism, the factual misrepresentations relating to the temple festival and women that are not supported by evidence cannot be passed off as history. Furthermore, it is downright denigrating for the people of the region.

    Does creative licence permit the author to cast aspersions on the character of women who go to the temple and beget children after a few months or years of delay?


    The local people came to know about the contents of the book when one of the persons from the area happened to read the English version of it foreign country. After he informed one of his close associates in Tiruchengode, the local got hold of the original Tamil version . It was then that they came to know about the book towards the end of last year.


    Two people from Tiruchengode, whom this writer met during the last week of January, said that they contacted the writer to know why he had written such horrendous things about them. One of them is the author’s neighbour from his village and related to him. They informed me that his reply over the phone was arrogant and that he hung up after a few minutes.


    As certain contents of the novel severely hurt the sanctity of the local deity, the car festival and the dignity of their women, the people of the town and the surrounding areas wanted the writer to produce evidence or else remove the specific paragraphs that have no basis. The people approached the police to lodge an FIR. When the police took no action, the complainants called for a bandh to draw the attention of the authorities to the novel.


    The bandh was total but without any violence. All the shops and business establishments were closed and even courts did not function that day. People from all walks of life participated in the protest. All the jaatis, including Dalits, have specific responsibilities assigned to them on the designated days in the proceedings of the annual car festival since the time of their forefathers. All of them have special facilities established for that purpose. Functionaries of all political parties identified themselves with the movement, with even leftists extending a tacit support to the strike.


    Presumably after coming to understand the seriousness of the issue, the district authorities swung into action and organized separate meetings with the public as well as the writer. Subsequently, the district administration announced that the writer had agreed to withdraw copies of the said book and the citizens of the town, in turn, would stop their protests. Next day Murugan wrote on Facebook that the writer in him was dead and he would not continue his writings, but would only remain a college teacher!


    From then onwards, the ‘progressive’ writers, left-leaning intellectuals and activists from Chennai picked up the matter, arguing that the writer’s freedom has been curtailed. Soon, sections of the media and the elite based in metropolitan cities followed it up. In the process, they called the local people “casteist” without knowing that people of all castes had participated in the protest. Some of them called the protesters “fundamentalists”; a television channel anchor went to the extent of calling them “lumpen”. A left-leaning intellectual was reported to have mentioned the citizens of the town who took part in the protests as “private Fascist mafia”.


    This irresponsible branding of the local people silently protesting for a cause that they consider noble is wholly unacceptable. When the aggrieved silently protest after they fail to get justice in spite of repeated attempts, they are given all sorts of names by the ‘progressive forces’. Don’t the local people have a right to voice their opinions in democratic ways?


    The protesters are not politically organized groups, with usually the DMK and AIADMK winning the elections during the recent decades. But all sections of the society, including Dalits, joined together only for the purpose of getting justice. The ‘progressive’ lot mention that a small group of men burnt a few copies of the relevant pages of the book during the procession, but it was an aberration in a huge crowd.

    Over the last few weeks, there have been many articles supporting the freedom of the said writer; meetings are being organized by the ‘progressive’ writers in different places across the state and even in the campuses of prestigious institutions such as the Jawaharlal Nehru University. There have been debates on the issue on television channels too. The issue was reported in the UK and Pakistan media also, describing the local society as “fundamentalist” and “casteist”.

    Is the freedom of expression limited only to a few selected writers of a particular variety who abuse the traditional customs and beliefs without any shred of evidence?

    Pulavar Raasu, the well-known historian of Kongu region, is from Erode town adjacent to Tiruchengode. He retired as the professor and head of the department of epigraphy and archeology at the Tamil University, Thanjavur, after a distinguished career. Over the years, he has published more than 100 books and 250 articles/papers. With his long years of experience in studying Kongu history, he says that there is no evidence of childless women opting for free sex in the region. As for the people of this region, the honour of their women takes precedence over everything else, including their own lives.


    The elderly people in their 90s corroborate what the learned historian says. Many of the local citizens point out other inconsistencies in the book. A Gopalakrishnan, one of the local persons with a deep understanding of the history related to the town and the temple belonging to the Devaradiar community, states categorically that there was no prostitutes’ street as mentioned in the book in the town and it is an attack on the reputation of their community. In fact one of the prominent houses in the street belongs to the most famous political family of this town, namely the late Dr P Subbarayan. There have been many political leaders from his family over three generations, occupying high positions at national level.


    Certain critical historical facts relating to the town and the car festival seems vastly different from what is portrayed by the writer in the novel. There is little evidence of fundamentalism, casteism, Fascism or lumpenism as alleged by the city-based literary critics and activists.


    A young lady professional from the town probably in her early 30s asked me, “Sir, I have been praying to Ardhanareeswara for the last six years after my marriage for a child. When I get a child, how do they want the world to look at me?” One finds it difficult to understand why these ‘progressive’ forces and their intellectual supporters want to denigrate innocent women like her. Have any of these vocal forces tried to visit the place and reach out to the women to understand their beliefs and emotions? How can they impose their views sitting in far off places, simply because they have the connections and the capacity to speak and write, while these powerless innocent citizens living in a distant town cannot reach out to the people from the rest of the country to make their case?


    The sociologist Francis Fukuyama notes that societies can easily be destroyed, but it is very difficult to build them. It is unfortunate that a peace-loving and enterprising society that believes in its age-old culture is being abused. And the target of abuse is the honour of their women and the sanctity of their temple.


    Individualistic approaches have resulted in slow destruction of the family and social systems in many Western countries. As a result, they are facing serious crisis at different levels, such as family, society and the economy. The greatness of India lies in its ancient culture, respect for women and the strong family-based fundamentals.


    Why do these writers target the silent societies unnecessarily in the name of freedom of expression and then allow a whole group of their supporters to go and denigrate the public on a daily basis? How do they want to present the cultural traditions of the country to those residing in foreign soils? Do writers have no responsibility to the society which they claim to represent?

    Most importantly, can anyone present fiction as history and expect no questions in return?

    Madhorubagan, thus, is a serious issue for the right thinking people who care about the future of our societies.
     
    Ancient Indian likes this.
  18. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    and, the convenient ommittance...

    Who killed Perumal?

    The harassment and finally, the silencing of leading Tamil writer Perumal Murugan for his controversial 2010 novel, Mathorupaagan, was an assault on the freedom of expression. But, it is the social and political realities of contemporary Tamil Nadu that allow such assaults on constitutional guarantees to continue.

    In Mathorupaagan, Murugan makes reference to a custom that was reportedly in vogue until the first half of the last century. It is said that at the annual festival of the Shiva temple in Thiruchengode, childless women sought sex with strangers — interpreted as 'divine figures' — so that they could conceive. Four years after the original Tamil novel was published, and one year after an English translation (One Part Woman) was published to critical acclaim, certain caste organizations in the Kongu region (western districts of Tamil Nadu) launched a campaign against Murugan. The protests became so vicious that five days ago he declared himself 'dead'.

    Reports so far have blamed the situation on Hindu religious bodies, omitting all reference to caste organisations that actually drove the campaign. There are two reasons for this. First, the Dravidian parties have never acknowledged, leave alone addressed, the oppression perpetrated by dominant non-brahmin castes. Second: the RSS and BJP are trying hard to gain a foothold in the state, and it is convenient to blame Hindu fundamentalism for the attacks on Perumal. The author and his supporters have openly spoken about the caste factor at work in the case but hardly anyone who has written on the subject has stressed on it. Four days after Murugan's startling statement, DMK treasurer MK Stalin issued a vague statement of support saying that the author "is being targeted by fundamentalists whose aim is to create a rift among the peace and freedomloving people of Tamil Nadu."

    How did local caste groups, in this case the Kongu Vellalars, become powerful enough to intimidate men like Perumal? Over three decades, a handful of numerically strong caste groups, loosely referred to as "intermediate castes", have acquired enough political clout to exercise control over several state agencies and institutions, including educational institutions. This is very similar to the post-Mandal rise of the numerically strong Other Backward Castes (OBCs) in north India. Such groups use myth-making and muscle-flexing in the name of caste pride to exert their influence in the public sphere. Cinema and literature are fields where they do this often.

    Tamil Nadu has witnessed several such incidents in the recent past. An incumbent chief minister was forced to back down in the face of prolonged caste riots over the naming of a state road corporation after a dalit leader. A brahmin author was forced to discontinue a serialized novel in a weekly magazine at the insistence of a caste group which felt slighted by its contents. In 2012, a rioting caste mob vandalized a dalit village because a boy who lived there married a girl from the community. He was later found dead under suspicious circumstances. The assault on Murugan can be seen as a similar act of resentment.

    Murugan has had leftist associations since his youth, and he has focussed on the social reality of the Kongu region, which is also his home. In his novels, he has dealt with several aspects of its social problems — the disenfranchisement of communities caused by modernization, the exploitation of children from depressed castes and the complexity of the man-woman relationship in working class environments.

    Pookkuzhi (2013), his seventh novel, is about an inter-caste marriage that ends in tragedy precipitated by a hostile world. It is dedicated to Ilavarasan, a dalit boy who married an upper caste girl in Dharmapuri, and paid for it with his life in 2013. Two years ago, Murugan edited and published an anthology of first-person accounts of those who have witnessed caste discrimination — as perpetrators, victims and onlookers. His work lifts the anti-caste discourse in Tamil Nadu from abstract polemics to a more nuanced awareness.

    But Murugan is an artist, not a sociologist or historian. The predicaments and frailties of the people around him are at the core of his fiction. That these frailties are beyond constructs like caste is his assertion in many books, particularly Mathorupaagan. Murugan paid the price for pointing out the inhumanity of the caste system.


    Raman is a translator of Tamil fiction
    Who killed Perumal? - The Times of India
     
  19. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    What did mean when he say BJP standards are much lower ?
     
  20. SANITY

    SANITY Regular Member

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    If you are talking about Muslims of Saudi Arabia, I have no plan to live there. If you are talking about India, you need to explain what threat do/can they possibly pose.

    Try to explain your point with example/s and and give your suggestions/solution as well.
     
  21. SANITY

    SANITY Regular Member

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    I can only guess that there is little acceptance to another person's point of view not running parallel to their own ideology.
     

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