Indian Ballistic Missile Defense System

[Butter Chicken]

what is difference b/w BMD and S400?

 

[sayareakd]

That sounds like a 'made up' scenario. Ballistic missiles fly in a parabolic trajectory, while in mid-course, a 2000 kms ranged ballistic missile, will be several hundred kms above the surface. AAD has a flight ceiling of 30 kms and as such CANNOT intercept the incoming ballistic missile (neither can PDV which has a flight ceiling of 150 kms) during mid-course.
AAD/PDV (if deployed very close to the enemy ballistic missile launch site) maybe (theoritically) used to intercept during the boost phase - but unlikely.

Net-net, right now India has developed only terminal interception at different altitudes (exo and endo atmospheric).

What you have said is true, in future we will have AD1 and AD2, these will take intercept at higher lever, we will have ASAT 1000, which will be anti satellite system.

but what i like right now and it is possible, is to have A4 first and second stage mated with PDV warhead to make Midcourse interceptor, which can ejected like Agni 5 in cold launch, we can then put these near border in something like these

tech is not out of reach, we have all the building block for the same.

We still need satellites in space to give real time information, Since ISRO has years of experience, it wont be that difficult for them to put in IIR camera on satellite.

 

[Tarun Kumar]

Without mid course interceptors, deploying AAD/PDV combo will be pretty useless. What they need is to put powerful boosters on AAD and PDV to intercept missiles before they reach their apogee. When that happens, we can integrate our BMD with S400/akash/barak and irondome to get impregnible air defence.

 

[Scrutator]

What you have said is true, in future we will have AD1 and AD2, these will take intercept at higher lever, we will have ASAT 1000, which will be anti satellite system.

but what i like right now and it is possible, is to have A4 first and second stage mated with PDV warhead to make Midcourse interceptor, which can ejected like Agni 5 in cold launch, we can then put these near border in something like these

tech is not out of reach, we have all the building block for the same.

We still need satellites in space to give real time information, Since ISRO has years of experience, it wont be that difficult for them to put in IIR camera on satellite.

Ideally boost phase and mid phase interception does sound good. But for some reason (I haven't investigated why) mid course interceptor deployments are rare to nil - especially for long range ballistic missiles (they are definitely being worked on!!)

 

[sayareakd]

Without mid course interceptors, deploying AAD/PDV combo will be pretty useless. What they need is to put powerful boosters on AAD and PDV to intercept missiles before they reach their apogee. When that happens, we can integrate our BMD with S400/akash/barak and irondome to get impregnible air defence.

yes, plus A4 in first attempt went up to 900 KMS that make it good candidate for the job, this has to be done for MIRVs, that way before they could cross over to our side, they could be intercepted, but main requirement is IIR sensors and AWACs with round the clock coverage. We have got good LRTR its range is 1000-1200 kms, even our medium range radars are now 400 Plus Kms.

since no video of missile detection satellite is available, this is what is close to it, it has same tech, we need sensors like this in space for mid course interception.



notice how it tracks multiple missiles, once the launch is detected in time at booster phase, it can be tracked and mid course interceptor is alerted to be ready and once the missile is calculated to be going to target envelop, mid course are send on the way to its kill zone envelop. Once there then its just interception at mid course.

We need to do heavy investment in space base sensor, i think both Geostationary and sun synchronous orbit, 4 satellites in each will be enough.

 

[sayareakd]

Ideally boost phase and mid phase interception does sound good. But for some reason (I haven't investigated why) mid course interceptor deployments are rare to nil - especially for long range ballistic missiles (they are definitely being worked on!!)

reason is lack of space based assets and early warning systems, every few countries have capabilities to intercept missile, leave a side mid course interception. Uncle has it, China has tested once or twice.

I think trick is early warning and very very fast missile send to intercept enemy missile in midcourse.

 

[Tarun Kumar]

Terminal interception is futile no matter how sophisticated ur system is because of various reasons pertaining to physics and technology which are to complex to elaborate here. The technical literature is unanimous that terminal interception will not work for fast moving and powerful IRMBS and MRBMs that paki land has. Mid course interception especially in post boost phase will do the trick, but u need very powerful boosters which should also have thrust vectoring. Moreover another problem is of detection. How will seekers inside the missiles work if u need to intercept at post boost phase in endo atmosphere which is what will be needed for Shaheen 1 and M11. So u will need ground and space based sensors and radars which will be targets for Chinese and Paki rockets and asats. All in all an interesting cat and mouse game but at least its good we are investing in both offensive and defensive technologies.

 

[Scrutator]

reason is lack of space based assets and early warning systems, every few countries have capabilities to intercept missile, leave a side mid course interception. Uncle has it, China has tested once or twice.

I think trick is early warning and very very fast missile send to intercept enemy missile in midcourse.

Yes, US does have exceptional satellite capability to track any kind of 'thermal' activity (like missile launch)! Even US has had quite limited deployment of mid-course interceptors (that too at an exorbitant cost!!!) over the last few years (that's why I characterized it as 'rare' earlier).
I think India should be able to put some good thermal sensors up above!!
In fact I am a big fan of aerostats!! A good aerostats that high's enough would also be helpful.

 

[Scrutator]

Terminal interception is futile no matter how sophisticated ur system is because of various reasons pertaining to physics and technology which are to complex to elaborate here. The technical literature is unanimous that terminal interception will not work for fast moving and powerful IRMBS and MRBMs that paki land has. Mid course interception especially in post boost phase will do the trick, but u need very powerful boosters which should also have thrust vectoring. Moreover another problem is of detection. How will seekers inside the missiles work if u need to intercept at post boost phase in endo atmosphere which is what will be needed for Shaheen 1 and M11. So u will need ground and space based sensors and radars which will be targets for Chinese and Paki rockets and asats. All in all an interesting cat and mouse game but at least its good we are investing in both offensive and defensive technologies.

We'll need multiple layers!! To intercept at boost, mid-course and terminal. Predictably, the non-terminal interceptors will be very large rockets - which will be expensive to build. US has spent about $40 billion and they have few 10s of such mid-course interceptors!!
With the success of AAD/PDV, DRDO will go further 'up' in the future!!
Another advantage of terminal interception is that you'll intercept only when you're sure that populated areas will be affected. Pakistani missiles are not accurate at all (it is all North Korean missiles - who also keep lobbing them into the sea just to create a scare among its adversaries) - once it's launched no one knows where it will impact!!!

The a'hole Musharraf did want to launch few ballistic missiles on India during the Kargil war, but his subordinates warned him that they cannot be sure where it would land - and India will retaliate with some precision strikes!! It didn't seem like a good bargain, so they kept quiet!!!

 

[kunal1123]

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[sayareakd]

Terminal interception is futile no matter how sophisticated ur system is because of various reasons pertaining to physics and technology which are to complex to elaborate here. The technical literature is unanimous that terminal interception will not work for fast moving and powerful IRMBS and MRBMs that paki land has. Mid course interception especially in post boost phase will do the trick, but u need very powerful boosters which should also have thrust vectoring. Moreover another problem is of detection. How will seekers inside the missiles work if u need to intercept at post boost phase in endo atmosphere which is what will be needed for Shaheen 1 and M11. So u will need ground and space based sensors and radars which will be targets for Chinese and Paki rockets and asats. All in all an interesting cat and mouse game but at least its good we are investing in both offensive and defensive technologies.

Sorry to say sir, that you think low about capabilities of your countrymen. I have personally seen PAD and AAD and have good knowledge of how it works. Cant go into all that but here is some details which might help you understand what we have done and what we are doing.

This idea first came around 1994 by Dr. Kalam, presentations were made and successive PMs were give, all amazed by it. It was in 1999 that file was passed by ABV.

In the mean time we went to all possible countries ( US, Russia and Israel) which had BMD capabilities, we didn't found any of their system to suit our requirements.

We figure out, what we want and what we can get from different countries. (Like Green pine from Israel, others parts from Russia and even France, now we have all our systems, which are better then these)

First Akash was consider, but it was found insufficient, so they made AAD.

As an interim measure, Prithvi work horse was modified for the purpose, it was called PAD.

Before first test they carried out on electronic target and it was reported in Media, it was euphoria, we couldn't believe we actually going to attempt it. That time Hindi news channel said we are going to intercept Prithvi with Prithvi.

Then some news channel posted video of interception and soldier at the site, pulled his fist up with joy, he understood what has achieved, still remember his face, even today.

In later test, we used green pine as primary radar and our own LRTR as back up. Israelis did helped us, but this learning was not one way, Israelis also learned from us they went back and enhanced green pine into super green pine. (we also enhanced our LRTR)

Other parts like AWACs etc also arrived and our guys have put in hardcore software and integrated it with hardware.

If you look at PAD and AAD system works perfectly in look shoot shoot mode. Hope with PDV and AAD we will get "look, shoot, look shoot mode".

With our LRTR, we can track pencil size object over 1000 kms. Even smaller medium range radar we can track pencil size object at 400 kms.

Now those who think that Saheen type missile warhead, will get pass our BMD. Think we first tested Agni TD in 1989, it was maneuvering warhead. We have experience of 28 years in this field. What we have done 28 years ago, Pakistan is only now started doing, so they far behind in curve and we understand this tech far more than what Pakistanis.

Earlier PAD had Russian radio frequency seeker, now we have our own which is far better and have greater range.

Now this new PDV is with new IIR seeker, Warhead, new propulsion etc are next generation system, its midway between PAD and AD1, as it uses AD1's kill vehicle.

from proximity to HTK is great leap in tech.

 

[sayareakd]

During yesterday's mission, despite target missle deviating from original path, the intercepter with desi seeker did a clean strike

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this means target missile, which is new two stage Dhanush, was made to maneuver to evade PDV, but PDV counter that and took it out.

It was expected.......................

Congrats all................. and DRDO........

 

[sayareakd]

some details coming............................

 

[Willy2]

There must be difference inbetn terminal phase speed of RVs of Prithvi and Agni 4/5 , Is our current system able to track RV of as par as Agni 5 whose terminal phase speed is mach 24 ??

 

[sayareakd]

There must be difference inbetn terminal phase speed of RVs of Prithvi and Agni 4/5 , Is our current system able to track RV of as par as Agni 5 whose terminal phase speed is mach 24 ??

yes that is why we never lost it when we test A5.......................

 

[Willy2]

yes that is why we never lost it when we test A5.......................

Sorry , my question is little incomplete , I mean , Is this PDV can hit upcoming RV of like Agni 5 , whose speed will be Mach 24+

 

[tejas warrior]

and here is the video..Direct Hit.

 

[sayareakd]

Sorry , my question is little incomplete , I mean , Is this PDV can hit upcoming RV of like Agni 5 , whose speed will be Mach 24+

If you can track it, then if you can put interceptor on its collusion course even at slow speed and explode at perticular time, good example is a bird hit take down fighter aircraft.

So its possible.

 

[Adioz]

and here is the video..Direct Hit.

What happens when there is a live nuclear warhead in the RV?

 

[IndianHawk]

What happens when there is a live nuclear warhead in the RV?

Then it could trigger a nuclear blast at the interception altitude. 80-120km or whatever.

At such altitude direct affect of blast will be avoided but radiation will spread. Fallout could still block the sun for few weeks or months depending upon yield.

Or

It could hamper the blast procedure from taking place and a dud nuke will fall on ground.
(Which might activate some time later)

So you could never be sure. But it's still better probability than director nuke hit.