Indian Army wants futuristic vehicle for its Armoured corps

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pmaitra

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@Bhadra,

I have a few questions for you:
  1. What is terrain friction?
  2. What is its unit?
  3. How is it calculated?
  4. What is the name of the current DGMF?
  5. What are his qualifications?
 

ersakthivel

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No I do not know what Cold start is. You know it? Give me a link, preferably an official one!:laugh:

And Cold Start is meant for heavy tank like Arjun? OR rather IA designed Cold Start for heavy tanks, to be kept near the border? This is your understanding?
Cold start obviates the need for long tail transportation logistics , since armor is supposed to be nearer the war fields. Ofcourse it takes honesty to admit a point.

When so many modifications were made in Arjun design totalling more than 300 , tell me what is the reason?

Secondly, I deliberately did not reply to your Khemkaran rants which you keep making time and again. If that is your ideal of armour battles then I do not have to wonder any further. Khemkaran and Asal Uttar are bad examples of employment of Armour by Pakistan and no one considers those what you claim - great tank battles. In khemkaran the leading tank columns of Pakistani armour got bogged down in inundated fields and about 100 of those were sitting ducks in there. If any thing you can learn from Khemkaran is that even a 45 ton tanks like Patton could become liability in obstacle ridden terrain. what to talk of 68 ton Arjun. It will simply sink !

SO your muddy logic of light tanks with lightning mobility is forever buried in the khemkaran battle field , got it?

because Arjun has the lowest ground pressure(per square inch load exerted on the ground. weight of the tank/width of the tank. So it is BETTER at negotiating mud fields and marsh lands that any light tank presently serving anywhere in the world. Only leo has lower ground pressure, but no one knows its operability in indian border .

In Khemkaran tanks met tanks. So your argument that tanks dont slug it out like wrestlers on the mat is busted the moment you type Khemkaran.

Pakistani tank rout was because of their immobility and not because of wrestling with heavy tanks. Take your theory to some basic school on Republic day and give a patriotic lecture there on utility of heavy tanks.:india:
If getting bogged down in inundated fields alone can kill PA tanks, what were the centurians of Deccan horse doing there, Rehabilitation and rescue of stranded PA tanks?



CSD by dummies ? who says that it was prepared AK Antony ? You mean to say CSD existed in 1974 when first GSQR was given ? Or Arjun became 68 kg only after Mumbay attack and before that it was slim? You also seem to suggest all the features you listed are CSD specific and are not suitable for other types of operational doctrines and operational manuevers such as deep thrusts, turning moves or envelopments etc? You seem to imply right thing !!

It is the failure of your mental ability to comprehend ,that leads to linking the dead and buried 1974 40 ton 105 mm gun dia GSQR to the modern state of the art 60 ton 120 mm rifled gun Arjun mk2 with safe ammo, blow off panel and better on the move firing accuracy.

Since you are lying on this point repeatedly and pretend to ignore the IA 's 1998 Arjun design freeze did not even have the remotest of link to the dead 1972 GSQR, nothing useful is going to come out of rebutting this.

SO tell me when was CSD proposed , who proposed it? CSD or no CSD no tank in Asia can escape alive if they come face to face with Arjun mk2 in indian border area, A DODO researcher has no comprehension to even consider it.

You dont do deep thrust with desert dummies like T-90s and anywhere dummies like T-72 both of which are ready to roast the crew alive from a mere RPG hit due to tank rounds littering on the T series tank floors. is this the type of tank you take to offensive CSD? Only a monumentally stupid lot of generals lead by even more monumentally stupid political leader like nehru can do it. Not guys like Sunderji who vouched for the CSD doctrine.

T series tanks presently in IA serve the defensive doctrine of waiting for the advancing enemy , so they have bigger guns and lower armor , no safe ammo provisions. so they dont have to face the dangers of moving offensive tank columns coming face to face with anti tank weapon carrying enemy. thats the only way you can deploy it. If you go with offensive t series tank columns you cant even win over LTTE in Srilanka.

, if you want an offensive doctrine like CSD you need a tank that stores ammo safe so that no seep through land mine explosion of RPG strike will lead to blowing up the turret and roasting the crew alive. And it needs to have tons of armor for deeper LOS protection, higher powered APU(8 kw in mk2) which enables the tank to shoot targets without the engine running, ANd no nonsense well ventilated crew compartment that dont need compromising , filmsy huge external Ac set up, critical for tank performance.That is Arjun for you.

No tank the famed DGMF procured or propose in medium FRCV will have that.

You dont even know what unit you are using for Arjun weight and what are all the extra equipment used in the figure you quoted. , Do you know what is a short ton? Post the weight of Arjun mk1 and mk2 in both short tons and long tons , with out ERA , mine plough and with them .Lets see what type of Phd scholar you are?

Now I understand where DRDO and DGMF got bogged down !:drool:



When both nuclear power are having 200 warhead each and all conciable system of delivery, that scenario can weight --- let every thing wait but Arjun. You have very good arguments to my serious question! And what has safe storage of ammunition to do with nuclear war? Due to radiation, blast or shock waves tank ammunition will have sympathetic blast or cook of? Good scientist you are ?:blah:



A tank is a tank, No one buys a tin can spending billions , whether they have N weapons or not. Same is good for lightning quick medium weight tanks flyign across battlefield. has God promised them no anti tank weapon will be fielded against them if they go fast? In this age of satelites and UCAVs no tank column can hide in secret like the old days.

Terrain may include crap because tank crew is required to crap unless you have provided a shit pot inside Arjun. It also includes water which makes Arjun bog down. It includes heat which leads to cook of. It includes wind and sound and gradients to go up and come down. Everything - high time for you to learn.

Bridges - you mean Sarvatra made by DRDO which buckles down ?

It is the T-90 which leaks like Sunny Leone in medium fording, not Arjun, And since you are a fake science graduate who doesn't even know what is the relation ship between power to weight ratio, ground pressure(kg per sq inch) you will continue to post BS like this.



Yes, the shops of DRDO, OFB, foreign companies from which import more than 60 percent components and that of DGMF should be kept overloaded- running. Different types of Tanks for deserts, tanks for punjab, tanks for Ladakh, tanks for Kuch, Tank for air portability, tanks for sea portability, tanks for Jharkhand - mauja hi maujan... bale bale ... that is what exactly someone like you would want then you talk of taxpayer !!


A production run of 1000 will lead to more than 80 percent local production including engines and FCS, which will forever dry up import bribes to middlemen and higher defence set up,:shoot: Thats why such mudslinging on heavy tanks here.



ARJUN PROTECTED BY A PLATOON OF INFANTRY ??:hehe:



You mean to say DGMF uprated Arjun to 68 tons for easier sea portability and air portability ? You must be kidding.

before sea and air lifting the mighty napoleans of GMF have imported a tank which can not fight wars in western borders in hot indian summer for any useful prolonged period of time. first make arrangements for defence of Delhi before airlifting all BS. Otherwise crap will hit the fan in future war. Like the frozen DGMF sending SOS to vajpayee govt , please stop operation parakram because all our T fleet is night blind and not fit for long deployment in desert!!!



And yes, DGMF have many technically qualified people with M Tech from DIAT - PG in Tank Technology - that is why their standards are good !:pound:

You dont need that many degrees to draw this scam called RFI for FRCV which is literally a balnk sheet , after taking a decade to prepare it.I thin that most of those M.techs must be study on mobility of DODOs , in which you already hold a Phd!!!



But Mars also has different types of terrain and one needs to crap there also.... . again the answer shows you want tank shops - specially Arjun shop to proliferate.

Yeah, yeah, I will expect another space age crap of an RFI to all inter stellar galaxy tank makers to participate in another scam for mars FRCV from DGMF.




It is the job of DGMF and your job is to make what they want. Simple. The problem in this country is that everyone wants to do others job but not his:daru:.


The job of a DM in Democracy to call the bluff of worthless guys , stalling the long term equipment plans of IA armor columns. And the present DM is more than capable.
 

ersakthivel

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@Bhadra,

I have a few questions for you:
  1. What is terrain friction?
  2. What is its unit?
  3. How is it calculated?
  4. What is the name of the current DGMF?
  5. What are his qualifications?
You are insulting @Bhadra ji with such useless questions. they are all top secret DGMF-DODO stuff that bhardraji is secretly researching in his wet dreams.

AFAIK such top secret state of the art concepts like terrain friction for tanks are nowhere to be found on any Eng books in this universe.

These new friction force can be measured only in the nth dimension of String theory model for universe, which were being discovered at top secret GSQR making making Research in DGMF , for the past decade,

Why are you letting our enemies in on such secrets?

Asking the qualification of DGMF is sheer treason on your part.

DO you ever ask Jhonny depp what is the plan to find black pearl? if you persist on these silly lines @Bhadra ji will call the brethern court and unleash the cracken.

Our DGMF is not only mars scientist who knows stuff like terrain friction , but is a oxbridge MBA , and served as head hancho of Enron and Lehmenbros for prolonged period. It is this experience which has led to the framing of this revolutionary RFI for FRCV,

which asks the global biggies of tank making to toil for ten years R&D a world's best medium tank that can be deployed in snowy himalayas and scorching rajasthan, and then genuflect down his feet (like our TN ministers are doing at CM's feet) and hand over all the IP rights for whatever prizemoney(he doesn't know how to fix it either!!!)

he hasn't ever heard how exorbitant costs and refusal on TOT folded down the decade long MMRCA whose backers kept on insisting that MMRCA's primary goal was getting TOT to tejas mk2 and AMCA in newspaper article after another for more than three years in a slugfest with bharath karnard.

He proposes to use his high corporate experience to navigate TOT and cost minefields on FRCV!!!

he will also use his corporate charm offensive on russian , NATO, French nations to let their top of the line tank makers to transfer all critical

1. 2030s state of the art,
1. 150 mm dia gun tech,
2. FCS and suspension tech,
3. World's best armor tech,
4. state of the art 2030s AP rounds for the revolutionary FRCV all for a filthy prize money to the future DGMF.


last heard Infosys Sikka and IPL modi are begging for an audience with him after seeing this Revolutionary concept called RFI for FRCV to set right their corporate houses falling reputation!!!

So we DODOs better pay our tax and go fly a kite. Or better sit with IPL cheer leader girls doing deep throat under cover multi national investigating journalism!!!


Dont you know that, How many times our lalit modi guy has told us on twitter?
 
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Bhadra

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@ ersakthivel ..

your answers claerly establish without doubt that you do not understand operational issue or just hoodwinking every one in the forum including DODOs.

eg :

CSD by Sundarjee --- Ha Ha Ha :laugh:

What happens to ground pressure when the tank is mounted on trailer... on rail and on the bridge ? That ground pressure theory needs to be learnt by you again.. probably they did not teach in your scientific organisation ..

What is the combined weight of a tank trailer, the tower vehicle and 68 ton tank when it passes over an object... where is your ground pressure then ? it floats in the air.. it needs a bridge of 120 ton capacity ..:scared1:

You are trying your best to offer 40 ( may be give and take 20) years old technology called Arjun or FMBT for 2030 or rather 2040, a time line by which the DGMF would like to have a new tank ... you think DGMF, IA or GoI are fools...

Till 2030 or may be 2040 the entry of Armour in Indian Army is booked ... you can sell your Arjun To Maldives .. or may be Furkina Baso ... or Timbaktoo.:pound:

tell me what is 2030 / 2040 technology in your FMBT..... zero or rather two OOs...:yo:

Tank makers and designer all over the world are idle and unemployed. When DGMF wants to take ideas from the tank designer globally, you all are shitting bricks..:bs:

Sirf Tumahari nahin Chalegi...

Last question before I sign off from this stupid thread : Can DGMF issue RFI without approval of MoD ?

If not then please shut up .... all of you.
 

ersakthivel

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@ ersakthivel ..

your answers claerly establish without doubt that you do not understand operational issue or just hoodwinking every one in the forum including DODOs.
I appreciate the fact that you are still trying to answer !!!

eg :

CSD by Sundarjee --- Ha Ha Ha :laugh:

Brasstacks and the ideas for CSD are realated.

What happens to ground pressure when the tank is mounted on trailer... on rail and on the bridge ? That ground pressure theory needs to be learnt by you again.. probably they did not teach in your scientific organisation ..

hi, hi, hi, ever thought about why T-90 has 6 wheels and Armata, arjun , seven wheels? no of wheels distribute the pressure evenly on a broad area .

The same happens in trailers, all you need are a couple of extra wheels. Go and see how many wheels are on older Ashoklelaynd tarrus and the newer higher tonnage HCV.

Just go to a road side punjabi dhaba on a highway and ask any lorry driver about that!!! No phd stuff this. Also ask them how many of their vehicles were burried due to extra load capacity. And commence your Phd.

. this statement confirms you simply have no idea about basic physics!!!!


What is the combined weight of a tank trailer, the tower vehicle and 68 ton tank when it passes over an object... where is your ground pressure then ? it floats in the air.. it needs a bridge of 120 ton capacity ..:scared1:

You still dont understand the term pressure!!! But bravely wading into 120 ton calculation, bravo!!!

The bridge capacity needed fro Arjun+trailer, whatever,is just around ten tons higher than the combined weight of a tank trailer, the tower vehicle and 50 ton T-90 tank when it passes over an object...

Please calculate the bridge capacity for T-90 in this config and add a ten tons thats all. If DODO maths arrives at 120 ton for Arjun, and 120-10=110 ton for t-90,I can't really help it.


And since you have great trouble comprehending the term pressure , i dont want to give you the trouble of wading into short tons vs metric tons.Weight of Arjun mk1 which was adjudged the best tank in IA is 58.5 tonnes (57.6 long tons; 64.5 short tons).

And the mk2's extra weight is due to all the extra bells and whistles asked for by IAl ike,



Arjun Mark II has a total of 93 upgrades, including 13 major improvements. The major upgrades are missile-firing capability against long-range targets, panoramic sight with night vision to engage targets effectively at night, containerization of the ammunition, enhanced main weapon penetration; additional ammunition types, explosive reactive armor, an advanced air-defense gun to engage helicopters; a mine plough, an advanced land navigation system and a warning system which can fire smoke grenades to confuse laser guidance.

Other upgrades are an enhanced Auxiliary power unit providing 8.5 KW (from 4.5 KW) and an improved gun barrel,changes in the commander's panoramic sight with eye safe LRF, night vision capability including for driver, digital control harness, new final drive, track and sprocket.

The Arjun Mk.2 has an advanced hydropneumatic suspension system which provides very good comfort to the crew, This tank is also fitted with auxiliary power unit which powers all systems when the main engine is turned off and It can be also fitted with a mine plough. Noe none of this is there in T-90 which doesn't even have the qualification of being inducted into IA because of its inability to operate in desert fro prolonged duration., thats the DGMF for you.


Even with all this the DODOs did this-Arjun tank hull and turret has been modified to achieve the target weight of about 55 tons from 59-64 tons,

So all the 68 ton weight you talk about for Arjun mk2 is the added weight asked for by IA. its actual hull weight was reduced from 59 tons to 55 tons.

You are trying your best to offer 40 ( may be give and take 20) years old technology called Arjun or FMBT for 2030 or rather 2040, a time line by which the DGMF would like to have a new tank ... you think DGMF, IA or GoI are fools...

And once again DODO researchers are getting stuck with the dead and burried 1974 GSQR of 40 ton 105 mm rudimentary tank for Arjun. Even God cant help them.

Todays Arjun only shares its name with 1974 GSQR and its latest mk2 version is almost equal to the newest leo version is something DODO researchers dont seem to comprehend.

Till 2030 or may be 2040 the entry of Armour in Indian Army is booked ... you can sell your Arjun To Maldives .. or may be Furkina Baso ... or Timbaktoo.:pound:

Last heard the DM has asked the DGMF to justify the high cost of maintenance and trouble shooting of T-90, so i dont think all the seats in the theater are booked.

tell me what is 2030 / 2040 technology in your FMBT..... zero or rather two OOs...:yo:

Tank makers and designer all over the world are idle and unemployed. When DGMF wants to take ideas from the tank designer globally, you all are shitting bricks..:bs:

Sirf Tumahari nahin Chalegi...

Ohh, even more krantikari!!!!! So this FRCV is a global MNREGA designed for unemployed global tank designers under the revolutionary UPA time DGMF which is being unfurled inNDA times!!!


Last question before I sign off from this stupid thread : Can DGMF issue RFI without approval of MoD ?

If not then please shut up .... all of you.

Lets see what DM does with this FRCV!!!

Another long list of developments mandated fro arjun mk2 program by
IA,

For ensuring MBT survivability, the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL)—located inKanchanabagh, Hyderabad—has developed a Mk2 variant of its Kanchan modulararmour, which was made by sandwiching composite panels (ceramic, alumina, fibre-glass and nickel-alloy) between rolled homogenous armour (RHA) plates to defeat APFDS or HEAT rounds.

At the same time, the DRDO’s Pune-basedComposites Research Centre (CRC) and the Research and Development Establishment, Engineers [R & D E(E)], have developed multi-layered multi-functional fibre-reinforced polymer (FRP) composite hull/turret sub-structures at much lower weights in comparison with metallic counterparts. More than 40 per cent weight savings over steel hull structures have been achieved.


Also developed for the Arjun Mk2 is co-cured composites integral armour (CIA), which comprises ceramic tiles and rubber sandwiched between two FRP composites layers. While the outer FRP composite layer acts as a cover and provides confinement, the ceramic layer provides primary protection against ballistic impact, and the inner FRP composite layer acts as the structural part as well as secondary energy absorbing mechanism. The rubber layer isolates stiff and brittle ceramic tiles from structural member.

The CVRDE, with IMI’s help, has also redesigned the Arjun Mk1’s turret to incorporate modular sloped armour fittings, and has developed a slat-armour package to protect the MBT against anti-tank rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) attacks. It functions by placing a rigid barrier around the vehicle, which causes the shaped-charge warhead to explode at a relatively safe distance.

For protecting the Arjun Mk2 against tandem-charge RPGsand guided anti-tank missiles, the CVRDE and IMI have co-developed a lightweight non-energetic reactive armour (NERA) package, comprising tiles in which two metal plates sandwich an inert liner, such as rubber.

When struck by a shaped-charge’s metal jet, some of the impact energy is dissipated into the inert liner layer, and the resulting high-pressure causes a localised bending or bulging of the plates in the area of the impact. As the plates bulge, the point of jet impact shifts with the plate-bulging, increasing the effective thickness of the armour.


For ensuring fool-proof protection against new-generation anti-armour guided-missiles, the Arjun Mk2 will incorporate both multi-threat warning sensors and an active protection system (APS). The former, supplied by Elbit Systems, comprises four E-LWS sensors that can detect, categorise and pinpoint laser sources, including rangefinders, designators, beam-riders, and infra-red illuminators. E-LWS also enables direction indication for all threats, as well as audio and visual warnings. It is immune to reflection, gunfire, lightning, fire and self-electro-optical operations.

The Iron Fist APS, being supplied by IMI, uses two fixed radar sensors to detect potential threats and measures distance and trajectory for providing the APS’ fire-control system (FCS) with data for calculation of engagement plans. The FCS uses two ELTA Systems-built conformal, distributed radars and an infra-red sensor called Tandir, developed by Elbit Systems.

When a threat is identified as imminent, an explosive projectile interceptor is launched toward it from either of the two twin-tube rotating launchers housing fin-stabilised launch cannisters. The interceptor, shaped similar to a small mortar bomb, is designed to defeat the threat even when flying in very close proximity. Iron Fist can handle multiple targets simultaneously with different intercept methods, including multiple countermeasures fired at two simultaneous threats at the same sector.

Unlike other systems, the Iron Fist uses only the blast effect to defeat the threat, crushing the soft components of a shaped-charge or deflecting and destabilising the guided-missile or kinetic rod in their flight. The interceptor is made of combustible materila, and is fully consumed in the explosion. Without the risk of shrapnel, the Iron Fist APS thus provides an effective, close-in protection for MBTs operating in dense, urban environment. Finally, a mobile camouflage system has been developed and integrated into the Arjun Mk2 in collaboration with Sweden’s Barracuda Camouflage Ltd to reduce the vehicle’s signature against all known sensors and smart munitions.

For enhancing structural survivability and firing accuracy, the Arjun Mk2 will do away with the existing electro-hydraulic turret control system (which is susceptible to impact damage and can cause a fire hazard) and will instead use a totally electronic modular electric gun and turret drive stabilisation (EGTDS) system supplied by Elbit Systems.

The EGTDS uses azimuth/elevation motor drives with extremely rapid response time, low-voltage power, stabilised modes of operation, and manual back-up drives in both elevation and traverse. A motor drive-control unit transforms the power supply into two 3-phase systems.

These supply and control the servo motors for alignment, stabilisation and slave mode of the turret/weapon according to the input signals of the sensors, control handles and active sight. The system assures increased safety since it eliminates the need for the hazardous, highly flammable hydraulic fluids. In addition, it offers smooth tracking at all speeds for very heavy turrets and guns and at extreme turret gun positions, while low power consumption leads to low infra-red signature as well as low-noise levels.

The Arjun Mk2 will also incorporate a brand-new Elbit-designed Commander’s panoramic sight (CAPS)--a dual axis stabilised line-of-sight, remote-operated, periscopic system for independent target acquisition, battlefield surveillance and main gun firing in a ‘hunter-killer’ auto-track mode. The CAPS will use a SAGEM-built Matis-STD thermal imager that operates in the 3-5 micron bandwidth, while the gunner’s sight will employ a THALES-built Catherine-FC thermal imager (operating in the 8-12 micron bandwidth. The Arjun Mk2’s turret will also housed an integrated battle management system (BMS) designed by Elbit Systems (and licence-built by Bharat Electronics Ltd), which provides rapid communications networking between the tactical tank commander and his subordinate units.


It will enable the tank commander to plan missions, navigate, and continuously update situational awareness. The system will also record data for operational debriefing by using a digital data recorder, which will record and restore sight images and observation data collected during missions. This data can be shared with other elements, using the same network with the BMS, to report enemy targets. Such a concept is rapidly becoming an essential part of the digitised land forces integrated battlefield concept, combining MBTs, anti-armour teams, and attack helicopters in combined arms operations.

The Arjun Mk2’s loader will be able to load the 120mm rifled-bore main gun from a fully automated, fire-proof magazine, which will accommodate up to 10 ready rounds and deliver up to four types of ammunition types to the loader. In addition to APFSDS and HESH rounds, the Arjun Mk2 will make use of IMI-built APAM munitions designed to neutralise—especially in urban built-up terrain--tank-killer squads lurking with lethal anti-tank weapons.

The APAM uses the proven concept of anti-personnel munitions based on controlled fragmentation. It deploys sub-munition shrapnel at defined intervals, covering a wide lethal area against soft targets. Each fragment is shaped to have enough kinetic energy to penetrate conventional body armour, or other materials.

indigenously developed auxiliary power unit (APU), which will provide power when the MBT is on ‘silent watch’ for battery recharging and night observation, with full systems operating while the main engine is shut down.

And a CLGM is under works for Arjun.

Please tell us whether all of them were mentioned in 1974 GSQR.

So the 68 ton weight is for all extra fittings like ERA, mineplough, whatever you name ,

http://tanknutdave.com/the-indian-arjun-main-battle-tank/

"
Other upgrades include explosive reactive armour, mine plough’s, an enhanced auxiliary power unit, new night vision capability for the driver, digital control harness, new final drive, track and sprockets.

The hull and turret have been modifed to reduce the tanks over all weight to 55+ tonnes, thus easier to transport like the T-90.



What is interesting is the weight of hull and turret in Arjun mk2 is reduced to 54 ton from mk1's 59 ton.

SO what this means is when it comes to bridge crossings or transportation, stripping off extra bells and whistles will give Arjun mk2 just 54 ton weight. It is close to 50 ton for t-90. So no logistical nightmare as you claim.
 
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ersakthivel

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@ ersakthivel ..

your answers claerly establish without doubt that you do not understand operational issue or just hoodwinking every one in the forum including DODOs.

eg :

CSD by Sundarjee --- Ha Ha Ha :laugh:

What happens to ground pressure when the tank is mounted on trailer... on rail and on the bridge ? That ground pressure theory needs to be learnt by you again.. probably they did not teach in your scientific organisation ..

What is the combined weight of a tank trailer, the tower vehicle and 68 ton tank when it passes over an object... where is your ground pressure then ? it floats in the air.. it needs a bridge of 120 ton capacity ..:scared1:

You are trying your best to offer 40 ( may be give and take 20) years old technology called Arjun or FMBT for 2030 or rather 2040, a time line by which the DGMF would like to have a new tank ... you think DGMF, IA or GoI are fools...

Till 2030 or may be 2040 the entry of Armour in Indian Army is booked ... you can sell your Arjun To Maldives .. or may be Furkina Baso ... or Timbaktoo.:pound:

tell me what is 2030 / 2040 technology in your FMBT..... zero or rather two OOs...:yo:

Tank makers and designer all over the world are idle and unemployed. When DGMF wants to take ideas from the tank designer globally, you all are shitting bricks..:bs:

Sirf Tumahari nahin Chalegi...

Last question before I sign off from this stupid thread : Can DGMF issue RFI without approval of MoD ?

If not then please shut up .... all of you.
before you sign off something about ground pressure,

http://ipcs.org/pdf_file/issue/1796701917IPCS-Special-Report-23.pdf

t-90 -ground pressure ---------------12.5 psi---weight----------------46.5 tons
arjun-------------------------------------- 11.9 psi-- weight----------------58.5 tons
M1A2 abramms------------------------15.4 psi--weight-----------------69.54 tons
leopard2-----------------------------------11.8psi--weight-----------------60.9 tons
leclarc--------------------------------------13.5psi--weight-----------------54.5 tons,

In turret and hull arjun mk2 weight was reduced to 55 tons from Arjun mk1's 58.5 tons . So if IA puts Arjun mk2 in the same config as t-90 weight difference is just 10 tons.

Other extra specs added by IA to Arjun mk2,

"We also now have an ammunition containerisation system. If the tank is hit, and the on-board ammunition explodes, it will blow outwards, saving the crew. A metallic box with 'blow-off panels' directs the explosion outwards," explains Kumaravel."

These are the reasons for higher weight.

So before you sign off rest assured that Arjun mk2s basic hull +turret weight is just 55tons down 3 tons from mk1's 58 tons.
 

jackprince

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You are insulting @Bhadra ji with such useless questions. they are all top secret DGMF-DODO stuff that bhardraji is secretly researching in his wet dreams.

AFAIK such top secret state of the art concepts like terrain friction for tanks are nowhere to be found on any Eng books in this universe.

These new friction force can be measured only in the nth dimension of String theory model for universe, which were being discovered at top secret GSQR making making Research in DGMF , for the past decade,

Why are you letting our enemies in on such secrets?

Asking the qualification of DGMF is sheer treason on your part.

DO you ever ask Jhonny depp what is the plan to find black pearl? if you persist on these silly lines @Bhadra ji will call the brethern court and unleash the cracken.
Damn man, you ARE GOOD!!!!! :lol: :rofl:
 

ersakthivel

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http://www.business-standard.com/ar...na-but-india-spurns-arjun-115070601186_1.html


===============================================================================
For some inexplicable reason, the army prefers to use Russian armour; Arjun is deployed in only two of its 63 armoured regiments

Ajai Shukla | New Delhi July 6, 2015

Chinese experts have given a thumbs up to the Arjun main battle tank (MBT), even as India's own army continues to sideline it, inexplicably preferring to continue a four-decade-long dependence on Russian armoured vehicles.

Last week, a senior People's Liberation Army (PLA) officer at its premier tank design institution, the Academy of Armoured Forces Engineering in Beijing, told visiting Indian journalists that the Arjun tank is "very good", and well suited for Indian conditions.

This could hardly have been pro forma politeness, as PLA is not given to praising India's military capabilities. It would appear that PLA officers, who work closely with China's defence industry in developing their new Main Battle Tank 3000 (MBT3000, also called VT-4), seem more aware than their Indian counterparts of the challenges and benefits of developing an indigenous MBT.

In contrast, India's military has stood aloof, criticising and even undermining the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) as it struggled to design the Arjun tank.

To this day, the army has ordered only 122 Arjuns, the defence ministry told Parliament on April 24. The Arjun equips just two of the army's 63 armoured regiments -the 43rd and 75th Armoured Regiments.

In comparison, the army has almost 2,500 T-72 tanks, many of which are night-blind and nearing the end of their 32-year service lives. The army will also have 1,657 of the more modern T-90S tanks, being built under licence from Russia by the Heavy Vehicle Factory, Avadi, near Chennai.

While the army's vehement opposition to the Arjun was often valid in initial years, the Combat Vehicle Research and Development Establishment eventually overcame a series of glitches that dogged early versions of the tank.

In March 2010, the Arjun outperformed the Russian T-90S, the army's premier tank, in comparative trials near Bikaner. The trials, attended by the army chief and top generals, sent shock waves through the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces, the nodal office for armoured and mechanised regiments and their tanks and infantry combat vehicles.

No respite

Yet, the army's opposition to the Arjun continued. Instead of the successful trials eliciting more orders, the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces demanded from DRDO a long list of changes in the Arjun. DRDO was told to incorporate the modifications into a new variant, the Arjun Mark II. If that proved successful in trials, the army undertook to order another 118 Arjuns.

"DRDO is currently engaged in the development of MBT Arjun Mk-II with 73 improvements (including 15 major improvements) over MBT Arjun Mk-I. Out of these 73 improvements, 53 have been found successful based on User trials. No time line for induction into Army can be fixed at this stage (sic)", said the defence ministry in Parliament on April 24.

The Directorate General of Mechanised Forces has taken various positions on why it does not want the Arjun. For years, it argued that the 62-tonne Arjun was too heavy. It claimed the tank would get bogged down in desert sands, and that bridges and culverts on Indian border roads could not withstand such heavy load. The army also complained the tank was too wide to be transported by railway.

This notion was comprehensively disproved during the comparative trials, when the Arjun proved more mobile than the lighter, 42-tonne T-90S, even on soft desert sand. A "third-party evaluation" done by Israel Military Industries, which had developed the highly regarded Merkava tank, concluded the Arjun would outrun most tanks.

Then, even while continuing to argue that the Arjun was too heavy, the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces' demand for 73 modifications to the Arjun quite predictably resulted in the tank becoming even heavier. The army's demand for Explosive Reactive Armour to protect the crew better added on one-and-a-half tonnes. Another one-and-a-half tonnes were added due to mine ploughs demanded by the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces which churn up the ground ahead of the tank's tracks, unearthing buried anti-tank mines. Numerous other modifications, including a commander's panoramic sight, slapped on another two tonnes. From 62 tonnes, the Arjun now weighs 67 tonnes.

Adding missile power

The Arjun Mark II is now held up by the army's insistence that it should fire an anti-tank guided missile through its main gun, which is actually designed to fire armour piercing and high explosive shells. DRDO approached Israel Aircraft Industry for its Lahat missile, which has not proved successful. Now, a Ukrainian design bureau has been approached for its Kombat missile.

Meanwhile, the modifications demanded by the army have doubled the Arjun's cost from its initial Rs 18 crore. On August 29, 2011, the defence ministry told Parliament, "The likely estimated cost of each MBT Arjun Mark-II with all major/minor improvements will be approximately Rs 37 crore."

Nor has the ill-fated Arjun project led to lessons being learnt on the need for cooperation between DRDO and the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces in designing and bringing to service a next-generation indigenous tank. For years, the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces has been unable to specify the design requirements of the Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT), as the project was called. Each successive director general, traditionally a lieutenant general from the armoured corps, has brought his own ideas to the job, which have invariably diverged from those of his predecessor. In the circumstances, the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces has not responded to repeated DRDO requests for clear specifications.

"There has been no discussion on the FMBT, or consensus building across the armoured corps. Each Directorate General of Mechanised Forces chief consults only with a narrow group of officers around him. Without corps-wide consensus, naturally there would be divergent views," says a senior officer serving in the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces.

Without any idea of what kind of FMBT it wants, the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces has now abdicated that decision entirely. In a Request for Information last month that has sent shock waves through the defence industry, the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces asked tank manufacturers across the world to propose the design for a "new generation, state-of-the-art combat vehicle platform" that it has dubbed the Future Ready Combat Vehicle (FRCV).

A retired senior tank officer points out: "An army that keeps abreast with tank design should not need to ask global vendors the specifications of its future tank. Vendors would, in any case, be guided by their commercial interests rather than by Indian operational requirements."

Another striking feature in the new FRCV proposal is DRDO's sidelining. With a foreign vendor leading the design process, and cobbling together a consortium to manufacture the tank, the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces -and, in acquiescing, the defence ministry -has abandoned the option of translating DRDO's experience and expertise gained on the Arjun into a next-generation indigenous tank.

Going by past experience, the FRCV proposal too could end up in the trash can. If the government goes by the principle of seniority, the army chief after General Dalbir Singh will be an armoured corps officer, General Pravin Bakshi. Like other senior tank-men, he has been excluded from the FRCV proposal. Defence watchers believe a new decision will be taken, and DRDO is waiting in the wings to play its role.

==============================================================================

This is how wheels within wheels and petty politics determine the DGMF decision. FRCV is not a result of armored crops wise consultation for a tank that can run in indian terrain and high desert temps with cutting edge tech . Rather it is a volley ball being tossed playfully around the corridors of DGMF.
 

sob

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Chinese experts have given a thumbs up to the Arjun main battle tank (MBT)
Mr.Ajay Shukla, i applaud you. How you are ready to twist news reports. Wonderful and you call yourself a journalist.
 

ersakthivel

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Mr.Ajay Shukla, i applaud you. How you are ready to twist news reports. Wonderful and you call yourself a journalist.
What is the twisting here. Did the chinese praised it or Ajai made it up?
 

ersakthivel

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you will never get it. Leave it.
bharath karnard is also in twisting times , it seems, hewants DM parrikar to shoot down this FRCV RFI circus!!!!

bharatkarnad.com/2015/07/05/great-developments-on-the-tejas-front-duplicate-them-for-fmbt/

Leadership has often been the difference between a successful and failed indigenous armament or weapons development project to which national prestige is committed. After the departure of Dr Kurt Tank from the HF-24 supersonic fighter project and the sidelining of Dr Raj Mahindra when the Mk-II of this aircraft was killed by IAF in order to procure the Anglo-French Jaguar low level strike aircraft, which mission the Marut Mk-II would have done far better. It initiated the process of IAF going over lock and stock and barrel to importing combat aircraft to the detriment of the security of the country and the national interest, a direction a seemingly unconcerned Indian govt actively encouraged — with defence minister Jagjivan Ram in the post-Emergency Janata govt allegedly pocketing rich commissions as the Maneka Gandhi edited magazine’Surya’ then claimed.

For the first time now Tejas will have two tested and proven persons at the wheel, with the Indian govt finally doing the right thing for a change with respect to the LCA.

It has appointed Commodore CD Balaji, fresh from his success spearheading the development of the naval variant of Tejas as chief of the Aeronautical Development Agency, Bangalore.

It was Balaji who ensured, for instance, that the navalised Tejas is a far more advanced aircraft than its air force sibling. Levcons (leading edge vortex controllers) have been configured into its airframe, making it a far more maneuverable warplane able, for instance, to pull high angles of attack at low speeds.

Balaji’s hands-on control, commitment, and ability to eliminate/remove systemic and procedural obstacles are by now the stuff of legend.

Senior US Navy officers whom I met in Washington some years back, who were part of the consultancy team Pentagon approved to liaise with the Balaji project, were full of praise for the streamlined manner in which everything worked, something they confessed they did did not expect.

The USN consultants were hired to advice on such things as the strengthening of the aircraft’s fuselage, the exact placement of the arrester hook, the choice of an appropriate jet engine with the needed power-rating, etc.

In parallel with Balaji taking over ADA, Commodore Jaydeep Maolankar has assumed command of the National Flight Test Centre, also in Bangalore, replacing Air Commodore Muthanna, who was in place since 2011.

NFTC with its team of test pilots is tasked with testing aircraft for their air worthiness and ability to do combat maneuvers they are designed for.

Mavlankar, an MS in aerospace engineering from IISc, like Balaji at ADA, is the right fit
— the proverbial round peg in a round hole (unlike the history of GOI usually appointing the wrong persons to lead critically significant high-technology projects and then wondering why they veer off into failure)

So, the designer agency and testing unit will be in sync and Tejas can now expect to begin rolling fast to cross certification hurdles.

The important thing to note is that both Balaji and Maolankar are senior naval officers, and typify the navy’s quite commendable levels of commitment and eagerness to validate and operate indigenous military hardware, in this case, combat aircraft.

It indicates defmin Manohar Parrikar’s recognition about the importance of getting the Tejas inducted into operational squadrons in the navy and air force fast. It is perhaps the first tremendously right and potent set of appointments he has made.

It is now for him to ensure Messrs Balaji and Maolankar are not tripped up by the usual villains lurking in the corners — mostly in IAF and not least in his own ministry of defence and its department of defence production.

He needs in particular roughly to drag IAF by the ear, if necessary, so to say, to appreciating and prioritising the Tejas in their scheme of things — rather than have this service clamour ceaselessly for Rafale and similar foreign aircraft.


This should also signal to the army that it is wrong to so casually torpedo the Future Main Battle Tank design, as follow-on, to the Arjuna MBT that beat the Russian T-90 hollow in field trials in all respects. And Parrikar should squelch at the earliest any move by army to tilt towards the Russian Armata tank displayed at the recent Red Square parade in Moscow to mark the 70th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany.

He should rescind army’s RFPs, and tell the COAS and his cohort that the army will have the DRDO-designed FMBT perhaps with its production shared half-and-half between DPSUs and a private sector combine in a competitive set up, both to judge the effectiveness/efficiency of public and private sector manufacturing skills and processes, and to get the best product out to the army, because it definitely will not have an imported tank.

If Parrikar can summon that kind of conviction, MOD/DDP will fall in line, pronto.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With two top navy men leading ADA and NTSE tejas and AMCA will be safe. Who are their equivalent in IA?
 

ersakthivel

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@Bhadra,

Do you include Navy in your uniformed scheme of things?

Read how two navy guys spearheaded naval tejas project being rewarded by Modi govt with the future control over tejas mk2 and AMCA.

Who are their equivalents in Army and Airforce?

Mavlankar, an MS in aerospace engineering from IISc, So what is the qualification of guys who wrote the RFI for FRCV in DGMF?



bharatkarnad.com/2015/07/05/great-developments-on-the-tejas-front-duplicate-them-for-fmbt/

Leadership has often been the difference between a successful and failed indigenous armament or weapons development project to which national prestige is committed. After the departure of Dr Kurt Tank from the HF-24 supersonic fighter project and the sidelining of Dr Raj Mahindra when the Mk-II of this aircraft was killed by IAF in order to procure the Anglo-French Jaguar low level strike aircraft, which mission the Marut Mk-II would have done far better. It initiated the process of IAF going over lock and stock and barrel to importing combat aircraft to the detriment of the security of the country and the national interest, a direction a seemingly unconcerned Indian govt actively encouraged — with defence minister Jagjivan Ram in the post-Emergency Janata govt allegedly pocketing rich commissions as the Maneka Gandhi edited magazine’Surya’ then claimed.

For the first time now Tejas will have two tested and proven persons at the wheel, with the Indian govt finally doing the right thing for a change with respect to the LCA.

It has appointed Commodore CD Balaji, fresh from his success spearheading the development of the naval variant of Tejas as chief of the Aeronautical Development Agency, Bangalore.

It was Balaji who ensured, for instance, that the navalised Tejas is a far more advanced aircraft than its air force sibling. Levcons (leading edge vortex controllers) have been configured into its airframe, making it a far more maneuverable warplane able, for instance, to pull high angles of attack at low speeds.

Balaji’s hands-on control, commitment, and ability to eliminate/remove systemic and procedural obstacles are by now the stuff of legend.

Senior US Navy officers whom I met in Washington some years back, who were part of the consultancy team Pentagon approved to liaise with the Balaji project, were full of praise for the streamlined manner in which everything worked, something they confessed they did did not expect.

The USN consultants were hired to advice on such things as the strengthening of the aircraft’s fuselage, the exact placement of the arrester hook, the choice of an appropriate jet engine with the needed power-rating, etc.

In parallel with Balaji taking over ADA, Commodore Jaydeep Maolankar has assumed command of the National Flight Test Centre, also in Bangalore, replacing Air Commodore Muthanna, who was in place since 2011.

NFTC with its team of test pilots is tasked with testing aircraft for their air worthiness and ability to do combat maneuvers they are designed for.

Mavlankar, an MS in aerospace engineering from IISc, like Balaji at ADA, is the right fit
— the proverbial round peg in a round hole (unlike the history of GOI usually appointing the wrong persons to lead critically significant high-technology projects and then wondering why they veer off into failure)

So, the designer agency and testing unit will be in sync and Tejas can now expect to begin rolling fast to cross certification hurdles.

The important thing to note is that both Balaji and Maolankar are senior naval officers, and typify the navy’s quite commendable levels of commitment and eagerness to validate and operate indigenous military hardware, in this case, combat aircraft.

It indicates defmin Manohar Parrikar’s recognition about the importance of getting the Tejas inducted into operational squadrons in the navy and air force fast. It is perhaps the first tremendously right and potent set of appointments he has made.

It is now for him to ensure Messrs Balaji and Maolankar are not tripped up by the usual villains lurking in the corners — mostly in IAF and not least in his own ministry of defence and its department of defence production.

He needs in particular roughly to drag IAF by the ear, if necessary, so to say, to appreciating and prioritising the Tejas in their scheme of things — rather than have this service clamour ceaselessly for Rafale and similar foreign aircraft.


This should also signal to the army that it is wrong to so casually torpedo the Future Main Battle Tank design, as follow-on, to the Arjuna MBT that beat the Russian T-90 hollow in field trials in all respects. And Parrikar should squelch at the earliest any move by army to tilt towards the Russian Armata tank displayed at the recent Red Square parade in Moscow to mark the 70th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany.

He should rescind army’s RFPs, and tell the COAS and his cohort that the army will have the DRDO-designed FMBT perhaps with its production shared half-and-half between DPSUs and a private sector combine in a competitive set up, both to judge the effectiveness/efficiency of public and private sector manufacturing skills and processes, and to get the best product out to the army, because it definitely will not have an imported tank.

If Parrikar can summon that kind of conviction, MOD/DDP will fall in line, pronto.
 

Bhadra

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Why has this thread been revived .. so that the slogans of the union could be heard ??

DRDO/OFB ‘tank’
Published July 7, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: thestatesman

http://idrw.org/drdoofb-tank/#more-67935



The death-rattle of the indigenous MBT Arjun is now audible, the Army has little faith in its “promoters” presenting anything better than the cumbersome monstrosity for which it had placed limited orders under unlimited political duress. That is the upshot of the Army inviting proposals from foreign and domestic industry to manufacture “Future Ready Combat Vehicles” – which, junk the fauji jargon – is a replacement for the Soviet-era T-72 tanks.

Once the mainstay of the “cavalry” they are now ready to be put out to pasture. It would be premature to speculate on the response or how long, despite the “make in India” mantra, it will take for a new tank to churn up the dust. However the clear signal is that there is no confidence in the so-called Arjun Mk-II meeting the military’s requirements. And that despite the huge financial and allied investment and the prolonged patience of the Army, the Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Ordnance Factory Board have simply failed to deliver.

That the monopoly of the public sector was under threat was evident when even the “socialist-minded” former defence minister (AK Antony) cleared the Navy’s proposal to place orders on private shipyards for auxiliaries, and more recently Hindustan Aeronautics was excluded from the project (won by Tata-Airbus) for a replacement for the IAF’s HS-748 transports. And recall that Dassault’s disinclination to collaborate with HAL was one stumbling block in the original Rafale deal. The story is near-complete, the conclusion inevitable – the “self-reliance” dream will have to be drastically re-configured if the sarkari sector is to retain its place as the major supplier of equipment to the armed forces: at least of high-value, advanced equipment.

The bell tolling for the MBT Arjun could actually open fresh avenues to the Ordnance Factories provided they unshackle themselves from decades-old thinking, re-work themselves to function in a competitive environment that admittedly is very different from the monopolistic, captive market situation in which they have wallowed in mediocrity. The tank proposal is not “closed” to them, they have the land, facilities and experienced work-force that favours a tie-up with a foreign principal. Yet the management will have to liberate itself from bureaucratic fetters and the workers move on from their traditional trade union tactics that were politically pampered. The domestic private sector is on an upswing but yet to acquire the myriad assets of the Ordnance Factories, Defence PSUs and the DRDO which did the “thinking” but lacked commercial capabilities. “Privatisation” remains a dirty word, but since Modi-sarkar claims it will abandon red tape for red carpet (in terms of industrial collaboration), the higher management of the defence industry could also be revamped, rendered “professional.”
 

sob

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@Bhadra his sources are the authentic ones and ones you are quoting above are all BS. Please leave it here.
 

Immanuel

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1000 Arjun Mk-2s and another 1000 Arjun Mk-3s (with additional improvements developed and tested in the mean time) should be ordered right away. The DM should fire the DG of Mechanized Infantry and other crooks singing songs for imports. Arjun Mk-2 is more than capable of taking on the competition in the neighborhood.
 

sob

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It is not a matter what 3 or 4 Generals feel about Arjun. There is a huge amount of mistrust between Army and CVRDE/OFB and till this is not bridged we will continue to have this drama.
 

ersakthivel

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It is not a matter what 3 or 4 Generals feel about Arjun. There is a huge amount of mistrust between Army and CVRDE/OFB and till this is not bridged we will continue to have this drama.
SO with what trust IA imported desert unfit T-90 in thousands and still asking DRDO to fit Ac on it to simply operate in Rajasthan!!!!

Actually in arjun mk2 the basic turret and hull weight is reduced from mk1's 58 ton to 54 tons.

Extra stuff like Mine plough, containerized Ammo with blow out panels, , newer commanders panoramic sight(which are all not there in thousands of T-90s serving in IA!!!) are the reason for heavy Arjun mk2 weight which can be dismantled during transportations or bridge crossings, New armata with even 3 men crew weighs 55 to 60 tons,

Arjun has better medium fording capability and lower ground pressure than even the lighter T-90, much better suited to marshy canal areas.

IA fielded 52 ton centurians in khemkaran in 1965, which won them the engagement.!!!where was the logistics then that suddenly seemed to disappear now?

You give a GSQR Arjun meets it, then update it with 93 more requirements and Arjun mk2 is very close to meeting it. But you have bought thousands of T-90 that doesn't fare better than even arjun mk1 in comparison trials, to cover up you give a much watered down trial standard for T-90, which was pin pointed by CAG. Then talking about trust is just folly.
 
Last edited:

ersakthivel

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Why has this thread been revived .. so that the slogans of the union could be heard ??

DRDO/OFB ‘tank’
Published July 7, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: thestatesman

http://idrw.org/drdoofb-tank/#more-67935



The death-rattle of the indigenous MBT Arjun is now audible, the Army has little faith in its “promoters” presenting anything better than the cumbersome monstrosity for which it had placed limited orders under unlimited political duress. That is the upshot of the Army inviting proposals from foreign and domestic industry to manufacture “Future Ready Combat Vehicles” – which, junk the fauji jargon – is a replacement for the Soviet-era T-72 tanks.

Once the mainstay of the “cavalry” they are now ready to be put out to pasture. It would be premature to speculate on the response or how long, despite the “make in India” mantra, it will take for a new tank to churn up the dust. However the clear signal is that there is no confidence in the so-called Arjun Mk-II meeting the military’s requirements. And that despite the huge financial and allied investment and the prolonged patience of the Army, the Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Ordnance Factory Board have simply failed to deliver.

That the monopoly of the public sector was under threat was evident when even the “socialist-minded” former defence minister (AK Antony) cleared the Navy’s proposal to place orders on private shipyards for auxiliaries, and more recently Hindustan Aeronautics was excluded from the project (won by Tata-Airbus) for a replacement for the IAF’s HS-748 transports. And recall that Dassault’s disinclination to collaborate with HAL was one stumbling block in the original Rafale deal. The story is near-complete, the conclusion inevitable – the “self-reliance” dream will have to be drastically re-configured if the sarkari sector is to retain its place as the major supplier of equipment to the armed forces: at least of high-value, advanced equipment.

The bell tolling for the MBT Arjun could actually open fresh avenues to the Ordnance Factories provided they unshackle themselves from decades-old thinking, re-work themselves to function in a competitive environment that admittedly is very different from the monopolistic, captive market situation in which they have wallowed in mediocrity. The tank proposal is not “closed” to them, they have the land, facilities and experienced work-force that favours a tie-up with a foreign principal. Yet the management will have to liberate itself from bureaucratic fetters and the workers move on from their traditional trade union tactics that were politically pampered. The domestic private sector is on an upswing but yet to acquire the myriad assets of the Ordnance Factories, Defence PSUs and the DRDO which did the “thinking” but lacked commercial capabilities. “Privatisation” remains a dirty word, but since Modi-sarkar claims it will abandon red tape for red carpet (in terms of industrial collaboration), the higher management of the defence industry could also be revamped, rendered “professional.”
"The death-rattle of the indigenous MBT Arjun is now audible, the Army has little faith in its “promoters” presenting anything better than the cumbersome monstrosity for which it had placed limited orders under unlimited political duress. "

To write such a load of crap about Arjun which was adjudged the best tank in IA in 2009 parilamentary report and was accepted to be better than t-90 in comparison trials (even with watered down standards for T-90!!!) shows the sheer stupidity of the journo.


"However the clear signal is that there is no confidence in the so-called Arjun Mk-II meeting the military’s requirements. And that despite the huge financial and allied investment and the prolonged patience of the Army, the Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Ordnance Factory Board have simply failed to deliver."

Wonder from where the journo got the signal? If it is so why a new 124 numbers order were given to Arjun mk2? To hear the death rattle perhaps!!

"And recall that Dassault’s disinclination to collaborate with HAL was one stumbling block in the original Rafale deal. The story is near-complete, the conclusion inevitable – the “self-reliance” dream will have to be drastically re-configured if the sarkari sector is to retain its place as the major supplier of equipment to the armed forces: at least of high-value, advanced equipment."

The above passage is a dead giveaway about the motives of the journo!!!

MMRCA tanked because of prohibitive cost and inability of Dassault to stick to initial TOT and price commitments it abided by to emerge as l1. The journo now pulls the wool over every one's eye by pinning all the blame for collapse of MMRCA on HAL!!!

If the DRDO has failed to deliver why did IA chose Excalibur?
 
Last edited:

sob

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SO with what trust IA imported desert unfit T-90 in thousands and still asking DRDO to fit Ac on it to simply operate in Rajasthan!!!!

Actually in arjun mk2 the basic turret and hull weight is reduced from mk1's 58 ton to 54 tons.

Extra stuff like Mine plough, containerized Ammo with blow out panels, , newer commanders panoramic sight(which are all not there in thousands of T-90s serving in IA!!!) are the reason for heavy Arjun mk2 weight which can be dismantled during transportations or bridge crossings, New armata with even 3 men crew weighs 55 to 60 tons,

Arjun has better medium fording capability and lower ground pressure than even the lighter T-90, much better suited to marshy canal areas.

IA fielded 52 ton centurians in khemkaran in 1965, which won them the engagement.!!!where was the logistics then that suddenly seemed to disappear now?

You give a GSQR Arjun meets it, then update it with 93 more requirements and Arjun mk2 is very close to meeting it. But you have bought thousands of T-90 that doesn't fare better than even arjun mk1 in comparison trials, to cover up you give a much watered down trial standard for T-90, which was pin pointed by CAG. Then talking about trust is just folly.
When you get a chance to meet somebody from the Armoured Corp you speak to him and will get an idea about the perspective of the IA about Russian T 90 and Arjun.

And do not twist words here. Army cannot be bound by a GSQR which is 3 decades old. do not keep on harping that Army keeps on changing specs. See the time line also and then comment on this.
 
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