Indian Army to purchase 1000 anti-materiel rifles

[Bhadra]

@Bhadra, your point is acknowledged and appreciated.

No problem in importing an item where technology does not exist in India. However Army should develop local sources. We have to go from a "buyer" army to "developer" army. The requirements of army can help create a technological base in the country.

@Garg

Which Army in the world does not want indigenous Arms and Ammunition ?

That sorts out many problems with respect of reserves, maintenance, repair, stocks, spare parts and over all the cost besides industrial development, jobs and economic development of the country.

After all it is Army's budget ( Forces) that goes into Capital acquisitions and higher cost of acquisitions affects Revenues budget required for spending.

It is only for small armies where country can not afford costs on development and manufacturing small quantities. India is a large country and has large forces with large requirements. All logic suggest that India has to manufacture herself.

The point of discussion is - as per forces requirements and not as per the requirements of the manufactures. Most of the establishment connected to defence wish to do that - even through Trade Unionism. That should not be acceptable.

 

[Ky Loung]

The generals wants to get get rid of Vidawanshak and replaced it with a foreign made lighter rifle? If that is the debate than I agree with the Generals. Vidawanshak is too heavy for what it does. For the amount of weight it better to hump a RPG-29 or equivalent. Unlike Vidawanshak the RPG-29 or equivalent can penetrate most tanks frontal armor for the same amount of weight. For light armored vehicles, a smaller caliber and lighter AMR rifle can do the same thing.

 

[Twinblade]

The generals wants to get get rid of Vidawanshak and replaced it with a foreign made lighter rifle? If that is the debate than I agree with the Generals. Vidawanshak is too heavy for what it does. For the amount of weight it better to hump a RPG-29 or equivalent. Unlike Vidawanshak the RPG-29 or equivalent can penetrate most tanks frontal armor for the same amount of weight. For light armored vehicles, a smaller caliber and lighter AMR rifle can do the same thing.

Funny thing is, the same people thought it would be a good idea to procure an even heavier Denel NTW-20 that they couldn't wait to lay their hands on and are now sidestepping Vidhwansak based on weight.

 

[Bhadra]

Funny thing is, the same people thought it would be a good idea to procure an even heavier Denel NTW-20 that they couldn't wait to lay their hands on and are now sidestepping Vidhwansak based on weight.

Who told OFB to make Vidwansak ? Give it to him rather than getting after Army. Let Army decide what they want ? Any problem in that ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Back in days when Denel was banned the supply of NTW-20 was stopped which army preferred, It was the Army which asked for Vidwansak ( Reverse engg of NTW-20 with lots of weight reduction ) to equipped the remaining units ..

I have posted link in last page where Army conducted trails along with MGL, You are asking the same question despite so .. ?

Who told OFB to make Vidwansak ? Give it to him rather than getting after Army. Let Army decide what they want ? Any problem in that ?

 

[brational]

Its almost 4 years of process initiative, seems the requrement is still not materialized.

 

[AshutoshNSingh]

Back in days when Denel was banned the supply of NTW-20 was stopped which army preferred, It was the Army which asked for Vidwansak ( Reverse engg of NTW-20 with lots of weight reduction ) to equipped the remaining units ..

I have posted link in last page where Army conducted trails along with MGL, You are asking the same question despite so .. ?

My Gawd!! VIDHWANSAK is so heavy despite " lots of" weight reductions? It weighs nearly as much as a HMG like NSV 12.7.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Your Comparison fail as you are comparing both as squad weapons, Again in post i clearly compared Vidhwansak with NTW-20 ..

Can`t you read that these are not authorized weapons ..

My Gawd!! VIDHWANSAK is so heavy despite " lots of" weight reductions? It weighs nearly as much as a HMG like NSV 12.7.

 

[AshutoshNSingh]

Your Comparison fail as you are comparing both as squad weapons, Again in post i clearly compared Vidhwansak with NTW-20 ..

Can`t you read that these are not authorized weapons ..

well, all i meant is that vidhwansak is too bulky for an amr despite the weight reductions.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

According to whom its too bulky again ?, Vidhwansak is not a squad level weapon so does NSV or AGL as they are big and heavy weapon system, They are issued at the company or battalion level ..

well, all i meant is that vidhwansak is too bulky for an amr despite the weight reductions.

 

[Bhadra]

Let us see this footage and visualise how AMR could be used then tell me if it could be 25 Kg. watch 2: 20 onwards

 

[Bhadra]

Back in days when Denel was banned the supply of NTW-20 was stopped which army preferred, It was the Army which asked for Vidwansak ( Reverse engg of NTW-20 with lots of weight reduction ) to equipped the remaining units ..

I have posted link in last page where Army conducted trails along with MGL, You are asking the same question despite so .. ?

Fine, Army conducting trails does not mean Army ordering it or giving GSQR..
Army will conduct trails of any thing DRDO or OFV request it to...

It also fine that AMR is not a squad weapon but if being asked to be used by Infantry, SF and Para military soldiers weight is a big factor.

BSF has ordered it for static use. Army requires it for portable use. Hence weight is a major factor.

Reduce the weight to 14 kgs and then give it to them. What is the issue.

 

[Bhadra]

Let us see a presentation on top ten AMR in the world and see that out of ten AMRs only tow have weight more than 14 kg. The world trend can not be without logic and there should be no reason for the OVB and /or the IA to defy that logic.

 

[Bhadra]

Another footage : Syrian insurgent using AMR :

 

[Kunal Biswas]

That is not possible ..

Fine, Army conducting trails does not mean Army ordering it or giving GSQR..
Army will conduct trails of any thing DRDO or OFV request it to...

 

[sgarg]

Fine, Army conducting trails does not mean Army ordering it or giving GSQR..
Army will conduct trails of any thing DRDO or OFV request it to...

It also fine that AMR is not a squad weapon but if being asked to be used by Infantry, SF and Para military soldiers weight is a big factor.

BSF has ordered it for static use. Army requires it for portable use. Hence weight is a major factor.

Reduce the weight to 14 kgs and then give it to them. What is the issue.

There is a problem, and that problem is you cannot draft a GSQR on the basis of a certain American weapon.

There are different weapons in use in different countries with different specifications.

Why only an American weapon suffices why not a South African weapon. The Army has to give a rationale.

I have no difficulty in accepting the need for a lighter weapon but I am offended that it is just because "Americans have it".

Americans have a lot of stuff that India does not have. Will army refuse to fight due to that fact.

 

[sgarg]

Bhadra, I do not think Army gave a requirement to DRDO for developing this 14kg rifle.

Import is not a problem, specially if quantities are small, but this overall trend of importing rifles from foreign sources is quite alarming.

India must have local sources of infantry weapons. It is CRITICAL.

 

[Bhadra]

@sgarg

Indian Army, I think knows its job well and this kind of Trade Unionism, chest thumping and defamatory approach would not do. They are a professional body and should be allowed to do their job. Do not dictate to them if their AMR should be of 25 kg or 14 kg. That is very simple. Make 14 kg AMR and give it to them then ask questions.

This trade unionism such as reducing the range of missile to fit to DRDO specifications should not be resorted to.

The specification for weapons / GSQR are well thought out, discussed and decided at many levels including by representatives of DRDO. Leave it at that

 

[sgarg]

@sgarg
The specification for weapons / GSQR are well thought out, discussed and decided at many levels including by representatives of DRDO. Leave it at that

@Bhadra, there is no GSQR for this. It is one off requirement. The government will approve such requirements but it should not become a template.

The services must plan their requirements and these plans must be known to the government.

Please avoid word like "chest thumping" etc. It is very important to take into consideration the capabilities of the industry. If industry is not developed than army will be left high and dry in wartime and will face more casualties due to lack of arms and ammunition.

 

[Bhadra]

@Bhadra, .

Please avoid word like "chest thumping" etc. It is very important to take into consideration the capabilities of the industry. If industry is not developed than army will be left high and dry in wartime and will face more casualties due to lack of arms and ammunition.

People here call names to generals, army and forces as if they are their domestic servants, cast aspirations without any basis ... that seems to very fashionable . Is not that?