Indian Army to purchase 1000 anti-materiel rifles

[arnabmit]

I think Indian army has OSV-96 as anti-material sniper rifle.

Only by MARCOS

 

[hitesh]

Its a shame those poor pakis having Barrett M82 in there army & IA yent un decided about advance AMR

 

[hitesh]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSIdb95CTdMcX9D6C_oSZP28MiZjvXq5xZ_3LnyOS9IS7dS-VTXg Bheja fry effectof .50cal (Warning :graphic)

 

[Ky Loung]

Barrett_M82 dose not cost 89000 USD, actually no gun till .50 cal off the shelf will cost more then 25,000. I think that's the maximum cost even if you use Schmidt & Bender optics, best picatinny rail, best scope mount & bipods.

I think custom guns can get little more expensive but still nothing over $30,000 that includes everything.

Barrett_M82 cost is between $8000 to $10000 depending on accessories

http://www.barrett.net/pdfs/price-list.pdf

Yep. $8900 is the civilian manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP). It can be less or more depending on demand. Military and police can get it at a deep discount. A good glass will run around $2k civilian price.

 

[Bhadra]

It is definitely a case of 2002-04 era army brass which developed a liking for Barrett rifle, turned around and wrote GSQR to match the Barrett. All justifications about two man and inability to carry local Vidhawansak rifle are fake. BSF Jawans carry it, so can the army Jawans.

Since then the GSQR is quoted to reject all contenders for the rifle.

Imagine army without an anti material rifle going into battle and is unable to bust bunkers, light armoured cars and other fortifications which the enemy has built. That is the time they will miss Vidhawansak. They would regret not having it. Although the brass will blame Babus, but fault is all there's.

Since these type of rifles are used from a mile away, I do not understand reluctance of the army who pretend that a two man team would tire themselves carrying a 25 kg rifle. Now imagine that army does not have it, they are giving the enemy chance to put them on run.

What is better, beat the hell out of the enemy or run like hell because the enemy soldiers can carry a heavier kind of rifle.

Once again, it is tax payer's money. There is a hell of a lot of price difference between $20,00 rifle and a $90,000 rifle. Both do the same job. One is heavier other is lighter because it has composite and titanium as materials used. If it is a question of life and death, victory or defeat, I will carry whatever, I can lay my hands on, instead of waiting for the pie in the sky.

Some of the contents and commens of the post are simply accusatory, insulting and provocative.

Army wants an AMR which is less than 15 kg and there is suggestion that - No you damn will carry 25 Kg because our weapon is 25 kg. - hilarious to say the least.

I am sure none of the commentetor have even carried five kg in mountains and deserts and high altitude areas over short or long distances. a soldier is supposed to carry about 24 kg of his requirement, plus 25 kg of gun plus weight of ammunition - that means about more than 50 kh. Which commentetor is a volunteer to give himself to trail. I shall help him out !!

There commentetors here who wish to write GSQR themselves or force IA to accept their weapons QR.
It is very simple - Army wants a weaon less than 15 Kg - then bloody make it less than 15 kg rather than whinning about foreign mal, foreign whishky and commission etc.

I really wonder why such posts and commenting are not considred inappropriate trolling and having zero content. Why moderators are "mehrbaan" on these. I am sure the aim of DFI is not" Force Bashing" . But there are many here who are very keen to do that for verious reasons and because it is acceptable her.

BSF has bought it so you also buy is strange argument. BSF has its own role and conditions. They simply have to deploy those weapons on their fortifications such as BOPs . BSF does not have to go into enemy territory hunting enemy vehicles or bunkers. It is not meant for mounting attacks inside enemy territory.

AMR in ambush, snipper and destruction role is required to be shifted quickly from one position to another under combat conditions and there are people here who wish a weight of 25 kgs to be handled.

Indian Army has their AMR which they have operated and used. Their GSQR reflects their experiences with that weapon, their requirements and felt needs. Why should that be made to suit OFV product ? Why can not OFB reduce the weight?

The suggestion that the GSQR has been written to keep out OFB product is simply nasty and unfounded.

More than that the moderators and forum accepts that.

Were such comments made on OFB or DRDO he would be banned !!

 

[Twinblade]

Funny how the requirements change overnight as soon as a domestic product in the category is available. Army makes requirements for NTW-20, Vidhwansak matches and exceeds it, army changes requirements in a matter of 5 years. Smooth, real smooth.

 

[sgarg]

@Bhadra, did Army give a GSQR to DRDO to develop AMR with less than 15kg weight. If yes, and DRDO did not deliver, then you have a point.

If no requirement was placed on DRDO then you are shooting arrows in the air.

I have no problems with Army importing AMR overseas. But it is a joke India buying low-tech items overseas. Which other major country does that?

 

[Bhadra]

@Bhadra, did Army give a GSQR to DRDO to develop AMR with less than 15kg weight. If yes, and DRDO did not deliver, then you have a point.

If no requirement was placed on DRDO then you are shooting arrows in the air.

I have no problems with Army importing AMR overseas. But it is a joke India buying low-tech items overseas. Which other major country does that?

Like all others I do not shoot in the dark..

AMRs were purchsed by IA during Kargil conflict in certain numbers ...since then IA have been using AMR.

Now there is a requirement of 1000 more so IA has made a GSQR..

Ever GSQR is studied by DRDO and if they are able to make it then they say so. IA does have to place GSQR with DRDO, it is part of the process. Had you known that you would not have shot in the dark.

In the mean time OFB have made one version of AMR on their own. They did not ask Indian Army before making it.

Now they wish to thrust that on IA !! Why ? Did they make that weapon for IA GSQR ?

Selection of a weapon to carry out their task is the job of Army and not that of DRDO or OFB as is being demanded here.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Army already operate small number of Gepard MG6 Lynx imported from Hungry, These are specific needs for SF ..

1000 AMR is peanut considering the size of the conventional infantry in IA, 1000 more is going for SF only ..

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Regular Infantry will be using Vidawanshak as its use 20mm as well ..

The army wants that the rifle to weigh not more than 15 kg with a calibre higher than 12.7 mm and a range of more than 1.5 km.

Sources said the order will be for 1000 units and the manufacturers have been asked to respond to the RFI by Jan 31.

I think the Barrett XM500 has this deal in the bag, also i think we are overreacting without knowing the complete fact, 1000 riles is too small a number to be of any consequence in a million man army. i believe that these rifles are being acquired for a very specialized group/team within the IA ,in the same way that the TAVOR was acquired for use by the SF. whereas the rank and file of the IA shall continue to use the Vidhwansak AMR and the lynx.

in 2006, is intended to provide lighter and more compact alternative to popular Barrett M82 "Light fifty" rifle,which is widely used by military and law enforcement forces around the world.The new weapon will provide better accuracy (because of stationary,non-recoiling barrel) and same range as Light Fifty, while being lighter and significantly shorter, thanks to its bullpup layout. According to available information, this rifle is developed primarily for US Armed forces, and is still in development / prototype stage.
Barrett XM500 long range sniper / anti-material rifle is a gas operated,semiautomatic rifle. Gas chamber and piston are located above the barrel. Barrelis locked using rotary bolt. Stock is of bullpup layout and made of metal, with rubber buttplate. Rifle is fitted with detachable lightweight bipods, adjustable for height. There are no open sights as of now, but rifle is fitted with integral Picatinny rail on the top of the receiver, so any type of sights can be installed using appropriate mounting interfaces.

Modern Firearms - Barret XM500

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User trails by Indian Army does not occur with out requirement given on first place then inductions >>

The development of the anti-material or "bunker buster" rifle by the state-run factory comes at a time when the Indian Government has scrapped all defence deals with South Africa's Denel, which had previously supplied similar weapons to the Indian Army.Denel was black-listed by the government following allegations that it had paid kickbacks to secure a deal for anti-material rifles, which are primarily deployed in frontier areas to knock out bunkers, security towers and radars of enemy forces. The development of Vidhwansak was completed in November 2005 and the rifle had been offered to the Army, BSF and National Security Guards.

Source : The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation

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Giving the details of the new weapons, the sources said the Vidhwansak weapon (14.5 MM caliber) had a maximum range of 1800 metres, while the 20 MM caliber version had 1300 metres. The weapon had the capability to blast the enemy bunkers and radar systems in the battle field. The production of the two varieties (14.5 MM and 20 MM) began last month and the Border Security Force (BSF) had placed an order for 100 pieces. Some more trials would be carried out for the Indian Army, who would be a major buyer

Read more at: OFT develops ultra-modern futuristic weapons - News Oneindia


Don`t spread disinformation ..

AMRs were purchsed by IA during Kargil conflict in certain numbers ...since then IA have been using AMR.

Now there is a requirement of 1000 more so IA has made a GSQR..

In the mean time OFB have made one version of AMR on their own. They did not ask Indian Army before making it.

Funny how the requirements change overnight as soon as a domestic product in the category is available. Army makes requirements for NTW-20, Vidhwansak matches and exceeds it, army changes requirements in a matter of 5 years. Smooth, real smooth.

 

[Hari Sud]

Bhadra

Your above although highly provocative post, but it is the other side of the argument.

To augument your vocabulary, I was born and brought up at about 7000 feet city of Shimla, I know more about load carrying capacity of young man at high altitudes. Not only that I have been to Rohtang pass in 1962 during the Chinese invasion, at that time, me at the age of 20 carried 40 pounds of load and, supplies etc on our back, although we were not conditioned as yet for an altitude of 14,000 feet in the month of November. A fully conditioned soldier should be able to carry his personal stuff and half of 25 kg of rifle.

You have bad argument about making a 15 kg rifle for DRDO. If they could, they and the rest of the world would have done it by now. It is possible only with experience, extra-ordinary skills and innovation. All these come with time. Mr Barrett the maker of 15 Kg AMR, spent his life time from 1972 building his rifle. He had huge experience behind him, his family also has all that experience. His first attempt in 1982 after working for ten years was flimsy looking bulky rifle. Next twenty years he refined it and made a 15 kg. rifle. With that kind of time frame at disposal, DRDO would be able to make it. Are you not glad that they successfully reverse engineered a Denel rifle way back in 2004.

You are foolish not to touch on economics of imports. Barrett 15 kg. rifle is 5 to 6 times more expensive than locally produced rifle.

GSQR are clearly flimsy attempt by the army to write specs skewed in favor of whatever they like which is mostly imports. All wishes expressed in GSQR are usually copy of glossy import brochures. Some time that equipment does not exist. It is pity to note that after writing the GSQR, the army has a hands off attitude. If a local supplier emerges who is not experienced, army tries to stay aloof with the intent that he fails, which will give army time to find fault and opt for import. (That attitude is a bad management of nascent supplier who is learning tricks of the trade).

If I were in a battle I would rather have a 25 kg rifle by my side than have none at all. I am sure Indian army at those prices would have none at all. This army of ours is making bad choices of neither helping development work nor ever thinking of economics. Remember all future battles, India has to fight have to be fought with local home grown stuff. Foreign suppliers have a bad tendency to follow each other's high morale and withhold critical supplies. In previously fought wars, critical supplies were held up in 1965, 1971 and 1999 war. They argue the morality of the war, but make the war materiel and supply to both sides to get them in war mode. At that time their high moral standards take aback seat.

To your rude reply, I have given you a similar. If you differ with somebody or you do not like his views, you advance yours. The better argument wins the point. Troll is a misleading word, to be used sparingly including you. And trying to ask moderator to intervene on your behalf to back up your point of view is a bad argument in itself.

Now you have made a point and I have made a point, let us not argue further, let others throw in their views.

I am not expecting your reply; let others participate.

Cheers

 

[sgarg]

Like all others I do not shoot in the dark..

Selection of a weapon to carry out their task is the job of Army and not that of DRDO or OFB as is being demanded here.

The Army is "shaan" or pride of the country. The army sets an example for millions of young men and women.

What army does is followed by a lot of people. If the army does not have confidence in the people of this country, then who will? Who does the Indian Army represent?

I agree that the Congressi culture reduced the role of the Army. But that is no longer the case. The army must seize the opportunity to set the boat right. There is a government that is supporting the services. What is services doing in return?

Yes the army can buy according to its needs. Nobody questions that. But those needs must be realistic and take into account the capabilities of the nation. The army must be told to source from local manufacturers except in very rare cases where technological base does not exist.

 

[Bhadra]

Army already operate small number of Gepard MG6 Lynx imported from Hungry, These are specific needs for SF ..

1000 AMR is peanut considering the size of the conventional infantry in IA, 1000 more is going for SF only ..

============

Regular Infantry will be using Vidawanshak as its use 20mm as well ..






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User trails by Indian Army does not occur with out requirement given on first place then inductions >>



Source : The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation

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Read more at: OFT develops ultra-modern futuristic weapons - News Oneindia


Don`t spread disinformation ..

Answer my question raised by me on post deleted by you deliberately......

Show me the GSQR given by the Army to DRDO or Ordinance factory as being claimed here... rather than flaunting your photos

And you may be a photographer but you do not seem to have any idea about the use etc of the AMR when you claim that "1000 AMR is peanut considering the size of the conventional infantry in IA" as if IA will be fightng the war using AMRs..

Firstly AMRs are not authorised weapons ...if you do not know that..

Secondly, requirements of AMR is task and terrain specefic and special requirement.. and all battalions are not required to be equipped with it except for training purposes.

Thirdly no battalion requires AMR more than two to three in numbers and about 2000 of those are more than sufficient... not as you are dreaming.


Fourthly, I do not have privilidges to delete your posts so please do not answer to my posts after having deleted the post ... that is misuse of a moderators priviledges..

When you express your view you are a member and not a moderator...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

GSQR are not issued for Internet, These are for Official business, Their is enough source provided for the reason stated above ..

Just like Flamethrowers, I am aware and that is the reason ..

-----------------

You cannot go personal with member if their view does not suit your view, Calling any one lair is not fair with or without source , This further effect ongoing debate into mud-fest and cannot be tolerated ..

Answer my question raised by me on post deleted by you deliberately......

Show me the GSQR given by the Army to DRDO or Ordinance factory as being claimed here... rather than flaunting your photos

And you may be a photographer but you do not seem to have any idea about the use etc of the AMR when you claim that "1000 AMR is peanut considering the size of the conventional infantry in IA" as if IA will be fightng the war using AMRs..

Firstly AMRs are not authorised weapons ...if you do not know that..

Secondly, requirements of AMR is task and terrain specefic and special requirement.. and all battalions are not required to be equipped with it except for training purposes.

Thirdly no battalion requires AMR more than two to three in numbers and about 2000 of those are more than sufficient... not as you are dreaming.


Fourthly, I do not have privilidges to delete your posts so please do not answer to my posts after having deleted the post ... that is misuse of a moderators priviledges..

When you express your view you are a member and not a moderator...

 

[sydsnyper]

@Kunal Biswas & @Ray sir - How are the field reports of the Vidhwansak. It is supposed to have a quick barrel change to switch between different calibres. It is heavier that other weapons in its class, from what I have read and that BSF uses it currently.

Do you see Vidhwansak being the one-stop answer for all AMRs in Indian defence forces.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The answer is no as it cannot be carried with maneuverability as smaller AMR ..

Do you see Vidhwansak being the one-stop answer for all AMRs in Indian defence forces.

 

[Zebra]

Guys please read this......(I posted it here for Vidhwansak).

The RT-20 is a Croatian anti-materiel sniper rifle developed by Metallic in Rijeka in the mid-1990s and marketed by RH-Alan. It was developed to shoot the thermal sights on Serbian M-84 and T-72 tanks. The name itself is actually an acronym of the Croatian word Ručni Top 20, or "Hand Cannon 20mm". Operating with a bolt action, it houses a single 20mm round and must be reloaded after each shot. Given its large caliber, it is one of the most powerful anti-materiel rifles currently in use by any country and is comparable to the South African NTW-20 and the Indian Vidhwansak, with the difference being that the RT-20 is recoilless.....

RT-20 (rifle) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bhadra]

GSQR are not issued for Internet, These are for Official business, Their is enough source provided for the reason stated above ..

Just like Flamethrowers, I am aware and that is the reason ..

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You cannot go personal with member if their view does not suit your view, Calling any one lair is not fair with or without source , This further effect ongoing debate into mud-fest and cannot be tolerated ..

Poeple are shouting here that Army gave QSR or Vidwansak is as per Army requirements ... then calling Army verious names....

If they are doing that they must support their namecalling nonsense..

That is all...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I don`t see any name calling, The GSQR issued before and now are different in different times and for different reason and for different forces ..

That is all ..

Poeple are shouting here that Army gave QSR or Vidwansak is as per Army requirements ... then calling Army verious names....

That is all...

 

[sgarg]

@Bhadra, your point is acknowledged and appreciated.

No problem in importing an item where technology does not exist in India. However Army should develop local sources. We have to go from a "buyer" army to "developer" army. The requirements of army can help create a technological base in the country.

 

[Bhadra]

I don`t see any name calling, The GSQR issued before and now are different in different times and for different reason and for different forces ..

That is all ..

I am only trying to be objective. Baseless allegations should not be accepted.