Indian Army general service vehicle

[AbRaj]

The IA doesn't use pickups for troop transport.

In J&K ? I have seen gypsy carrying troops to the site

 

[abingdonboy]

In J&K ? I have seen gypsy carrying troops to the site

Gypsy isn't a pickup though it is a SUV/4x4.

 

[AbRaj]

Gypsy isn't a pickup though it is a SUV/4x4.

Its a cramped vehicle for carrying troops.
They even don't have space to shoot.
At least Xenon have enough space for troops to defend itself in case of being ambushed on their way to CT op site
BTW Xenon too is 4×4

 

[Krusty]

Um why? It is already outdated and if the IA had the ability to do so they would have phased it out long ago. The Gypsy will likely not be in any role within the Indian military within a decade or so.

I did a lot of driving on mountains and off-road. Chennai-Ooty, chennai-Kodai, chennai-wayanad. I have used various MUVS and SUV's for it. Just from my experience, when the going gets tough I feel that gypsy and Mahinda thar (or even the force Gurkha) is the best. They are miles ahead when you do off-roading compared to the safari. In hilly roads, I feel safari has just way too much weight to pull compared to the Scorpio. Off-road and in tough terrain, I'd pick the gypsy over the safari any day assuming I don't take my family along with me. Of course I understand military spec is different, but given the same upgrades, a gypsy will get you where the safari struggles. Now importantly, gypsy is mostly analogue and it just, works. Safari is full of electronics from ECU to injectors and can be fried. Safari will make an excellent officer vehicle. Space and roominess is TOP class. Gypsy is old, but it's a damn side better for actual tactical use. Safari is too big and heavy for the power and torque it delivers. Just my 2c

 

[dray]

I did a lot of driving on mountains and off-road. Chennai-Ooty, chennai-Kodai, chennai-wayanad. I have used various MUVS and SUV's for it. Just from my experience, when the going gets tough I feel that gypsy and Mahinda thar (or even the force Gurkha) is the best. They are miles ahead when you do off-roading compared to the safari. In hilly roads, I feel safari has just way too much weight to pull compared to the Scorpio. Off-road and in tough terrain, I'd pick the gypsy over the safari any day assuming I don't take my family along with me. Of course I understand military spec is different, but given the same upgrades, a gypsy will get you where the safari struggles. Now importantly, gypsy is mostly analogue and it just, works. Safari is full of electronics from ECU to injectors and can be fried. Safari will make an excellent officer vehicle. Space and roominess is TOP class. Gypsy is old, but it's a damn side better for actual tactical use. Safari is too big and heavy for the power and torque it delivers. Just my 2c

Besides, TATA cars are very service prone, Maruti and even Mahindra make much more reliable cars..

 

[Krusty]

Besides, TATA cars are very service prone, Maruti and even Mahindra make much more reliable cars..

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that. Majority of the safari owners, or infact any Tata vehicle for that matter despise the terrible service of Tata Motors. And the reliability of a gamble at best. I also forgot to mention one more important thing, all the critical electronics are placed too Low down in the safari. Another big no no in off-roading vehicles.

@Kunal Biswas are the engines uprated in military spec vehicles sir?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Maruti jeep is more preferred vehicle in Army hence so many variation of it, Its primary role though as a staff vehicle which is meant its more frequently used to move officers and related office work in urban or semi urban areas in field as well as peace times, Patrol vehicles based on same vehicle have rifle racks and redesign sitting arrangement and LMG mount over driver cab, Besides these its usage is almost nil ..

Safari will have to do similar work, And this vehicle will not only replace Maruti jeep but as well as Mahindra 550.

============

Military vehicles are different from their civilian variants, It includes changes to engines, chassis etc..

Perhaps you can shed some light into this matter regarding engine as i never seen a civilian version in detail.

Its the engine of Military SUMO, Is its same as civillian one ?, Military SUMOs are 4WD Turbo as advertised on them..

@Kunal Biswas are the engines uprated in military spec vehicles sir?

Sir, does the military spec vehicle also have limited slip diffs/locking diffs fitted? These are important from off reading perspective. Can you also shed light on if these are extremely important from a day to day routines of the army?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This year General purpose vehicle, Next year will be LSV, But it will take time and till then Gypsy will remain for next 15 years if not more ..

Um why? It is already outdated and if the IA had the ability to do so they would have phased it out long ago. The Gypsy will likely not be in any role within the Indian military within a decade or so.

 

[Project Dharma]

Army petrol quality sucks. I've seen jawans use a cloth as filter before putting petrol in their Bullets. At the end there used to be garbage on the cloth. Gypsy can probably handle this, most modern engines would probably knock and fail prematurely.

Diesel is probably less of an option because of the need for block heaters at extreme temperatures.

I'm speculating that this is probably part of the reason to keep some gypsies

 

[Blackwater]

This year General purpose vehicle, Next year will be LSV, But it will take time and till then Gypsy will remain for next 15 years if not more ..

kyo mazak kar raho bhai, 50 yrs kaho not 15

 

[Krusty]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that. Majority of the safari owners, or infact any Tata vehicle for that matter despise the terrible service of Tata Motors. And the reliability of a gamble at best. I also forgot to mention one more important thing, all the critical electronics are placed too Low down in the safari. Another big no no in off-roading vehicles.

@Kunal Biswas are the engines uprated in military spec vehicles sir?

Maruti jeep is more preferred vehicle in Army hence so many variation of it, Its primary role though as a staff vehicle which is meant its more frequently used to move officers and related office work in urban or semi urban areas in field as well as peace times, Patrol vehicles based on same vehicle have rifle racks and redesign sitting arrangement and LMG mount over driver cab, Besides these its usage is almost nil ..

Safari will have to do similar work, And this vehicle will not only replace Maruti jeep but as well as Mahindra 550.

============

Military vehicles are different from their civilian variants, It includes changes to engines, chassis etc..

Perhaps you can shed some light into this matter regarding engine as i never seen a civilian version in detail.

Its the engine of Military SUMO, Is its same as civillian one ?, Military SUMOs are 4WD Turbo as advertised on them..

sir, the picture you have shared is interesting for two reasons.

1- it doesn't look like a Tata sumo engine at all. It is closer to the engine of the erstwhile Tata sierra turbo.

2- pre 2005 civilian sumos came with the same 2L engine block as the sierra without a turbo producing 68bhp. The current civilian sumos are a lot more powerful

So now I understand that Tata built two models one with the sierra engine block without the turbo for civilian sales and another with the engine and turbo carries over from the sierra for military use. Which means this one probably produces about 89 Bhp. Whereas maruti sold the same specd vehicles to military and civilians. (I got a peek under the hood at Tambaram AFB on air force day 3 years ago).

But I heard these were also being phased out and there were many that were up for auction which i came across back in 2013-2014 at Avadi.

Also this engine doesn't have a sophisticated ECU and fuel sensors like the Safari has. As @Project Dharma pointed out, safari will knock badly and die in Low quality fuel but the sumo and gypsy will happily chug on.

I honestly think this vehicle should be stripped and prepared for military use. It has limited slip diff and Low range gearbox even in the civilian version along with a 105bhp engine with enough torque. Mahindra can easily add a third row if required like the land rover defender or Jeep for the army. If at all they are looking for tactical use.

 

[Chinmoy]

sir, the picture you have shared is interesting for two reasons.

1- it doesn't look like a Tata sumo engine at all. It is closer to the engine of the erstwhile Tata sierra turbo.

2- pre 2005 civilian sumos came with the same 2L engine block as the sierra without a turbo producing 68bhp. The current civilian sumos are a lot more powerful

So now I understand that Tata built two models one with the sierra engine block without the turbo for civilian sales and another with the engine and turbo carries over from the sierra for military use. Which means this one probably produces about 89 Bhp. Whereas maruti sold the same specd vehicles to military and civilians. (I got a peek under the hood at Tambaram AFB on air force day 3 years ago).

But I heard these were also being phased out and there were many that were up for auction which i came across back in 2013-2014 at Avadi.

Also this engine doesn't have a sophisticated ECU and fuel sensors like the Safari has. As @Project Dharma pointed out, safari will knock badly and die in Low quality fuel but the sumo and gypsy will happily chug on.

I honestly think this vehicle should be stripped and prepared for military use. It has limited slip diff and Low range gearbox even in the civilian version along with a 105bhp engine with enough torque. Mahindra can easily add a third row if required like the land rover defender or Jeep for the army. If at all they are looking for tactical use.

View attachment 12396

Apart from technicalities, one more thing which I think goes in favor of Gypsy is its user friendliness. User friendly in way that it could be modified for any role at company level itself. I mean you want it as a troop carrier, or as an off road assault vehicle or to carry your CO, soldiers could modify it on their own behest in their backyards with some blow torch and hacksaw. But I think High end vehicle like Safari lacks these and they would be more custom built for specific purpose rather then multipurpose. Also the weight factor too make Gypsy a most sought after vehicle in off road condition as yo already mentioned above.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The Safari which will be inducted will have diesel engines.

 

[Krusty]

Its a cramped vehicle for carrying troops.
They even don't have space to shoot.
At least Xenon have enough space for troops to defend itself in case of being ambushed on their way to CT op site
BTW Xenon too is 4×4

Gypsy does what Indian army wants it to do. It falls under the GS500 (general service 500kg). Xenon is larger and falls outside this category. It's not cramped for what it's asked to do. and I suspect that safari did not compete in this category.

 

[Krusty]

Apart from technicalities, one more thing which I think goes in favor of Gypsy is its user friendliness. User friendly in way that it could be modified for any role at company level itself. I mean you want it as a troop carrier, or as an off road assault vehicle or to carry your CO, soldiers could modify it on their own behest in their backyards with some blow torch and hacksaw. But I think High end vehicle like Safari lacks these and they would be more custom built for specific purpose rather then multipurpose. Also the weight factor too make Gypsy a most sought after vehicle in off road condition as yo already mentioned above.

I keep on stressing weight because remember IA doesn't only operate at sea level, At high altitudes the engines lose power as the air becomes thinner (oh BTW turbo engines also lose power at high temperature areas like Deserts), So the engines has to be stressed more to do the same job. Any deadweight is just a crime in such situations. roughly, air density decreases 3-4% per 1000 feet with other variables remaining the same. At around 5000 feet, engines lost anywhere between 15-20% power. You can imagine in Arunachal and Leh, The needlessly heavier safari will be gasping for air when the featherweight Gypsy will scamper along despite its power loss. Gypsy is the AK47 of indian SUVs. it will work everywhere, easy to fix, easy to modify and it will never fail you.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I assume Safari is in 800kg catagory ..

 

[Welcome]

Make a factual point instead of jabbering off conjectures.

they r planning to replace entire gypsy fleet....do u think that heavy weight, fully packed tata storme can be use in war field ?

 

[armyofhind]

they r planning to replace entire gypsy fleet....do u think that heavy weight, fully packed tata storme can be use in war field ?

Do you know the kerb weight of a Land Rover? Its 2000kg. Is it used in a war? yes.
From mountains to deserts to swamps. By British Army and special forces.

Weight has got nothing to do with the utility of a vehicle. Far too many things involved.

 

[armyofhind]

I keep on stressing weight because remember IA doesn't only operate at sea level, At high altitudes the engines lose power as the air becomes thinner (oh BTW turbo engines also lose power at high temperature areas like Deserts), So the engines has to be stressed more to do the same job. Any deadweight is just a crime in such situations. roughly, air density decreases 3-4% per 1000 feet with other variables remaining the same. At around 5000 feet, engines lost anywhere between 15-20% power. You can imagine in Arunachal and Leh, The needlessly heavier safari will be gasping for air when the featherweight Gypsy will scamper along despite its power loss. Gypsy is the AK47 of indian SUVs. it will work everywhere, easy to fix, easy to modify and it will never fail you.

If youre concerned that the safari doesnt perform in Ladakh, dont worry.
It goes right upto khardung la without any issues.

 

[Eastman]

Air-conditioning , power steering and less awesomeness driveability (in an spartan way) is the need of the day. Further maybe hardtop was a requirement. Gypsy as an ofroad commuter is no doubt a capable passanger vehicle. But you would prefer not to be a passenger if you have to travel 150km per day on daily basis, unless you are on some serious calorie burn routine or want to raid dè himalayas . Regarding war fighting capabilities , yes it is very capable but still a passanger commuter vehicle, why not off road buggeys and sand dune specail force specialist vehicle. Its (gypsys) leaf spring suspension is very sturdy but very uncomfortable. Passanger comfort is also needed. Those are now a days not considered as a luxury but need. Even mordern day MBT have vibration and temperature controls to enhance troop comfort which in turn enhance troop performance. Now regarding storme...what we know till date is a luxury version of the ride. It would be interesting to know how its spartan sibling perform. but its plus point is the new crossover evolved offroad chasis. Gypsy is outdated and time to r.i.p. without any further RND on occupant comfort for passanger-suspension for driver powersteering and as a whole air-conditioning and maybe for the military its weight loading capacity. possible bulletproffing and head room, leg room, soulder room, MMG room blah blah blah