Indian Army for better frontline infrastructure

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by nrj, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    New Delhi: Soldiers sitting in their bunkers in snow-clad Siachen will get to feel sea waves, chirping of birds and winds passing through forests, as part of a DRDO project to break the monotonous environment and sense of isolation faced by them in the world's highest battlefield. As part of its efforts to provide troops with "enriched environment" at isolated locations, DRDO has started working on 'Project Dhruv' to develop new bunkers to tackle various forms of psychological issues and depression among them.

    "Project Dhruv is aimed at environment enrichment within the shelter. This is one of the components for removing his stress in such isolated and forward areas," DRDO Chief Controller, Life Sciences W Selvamurthy told PTI here. Such measures will help jawans cope with the stress induced by their monotonous surroundings and help in creating a lively atmosphere within the bunkers, he said.

    The study will be completed in one year and will provide concrete results to move forward, Selvamurthy added. DRDO has taken a slew of measures to tackle depression among soldiers, which in recent past had led to various incidents of suicides and fratricides in the armed forces.

    DRDO to develop new bunkers to tackle psychological issues faced by soldiers- Delhi- IBNLive
     
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  3. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    New Delhi: Soldiers sitting in their bunkers in snow-clad Siachen will get to feel sea waves, chirping of birds and winds passing through forests, as part of a DRDO project to break the monotonous environment and sense of isolation faced by them in the world's highest battlefield. As part of its efforts to provide troops with "enriched environment" at isolated locations, DRDO has started working on 'Project Dhruv' to develop new bunkers to tackle various forms of psychological issues and depression among them.

    "Project Dhruv is aimed at environment enrichment within the shelter. This is one of the components for removing his stress in such isolated and forward areas," DRDO Chief Controller, Life Sciences W Selvamurthy told PTI here. Such measures will help jawans cope with the stress induced by their monotonous surroundings and help in creating a lively atmosphere within the bunkers, he said.

    The study will be completed in one year and will provide concrete results to move forward, Selvamurthy added. DRDO has taken a slew of measures to tackle depression among soldiers, which in recent past had led to various incidents of suicides and fratricides in the armed forces.

    DRDO to develop new bunkers to tackle psychological issues faced by soldiers- Delhi- IBNLive
     
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  4. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    re: New Bunkers for troops

    When finished, this will provide a good enjoyment and mental peace for our GREAT WARRIORS AT HIGH ALTITUDES.........
     
  5. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    re: New Bunkers for troops

    Will situational awareness of the battlefield be enhanced for IA soldiers by making them believe they are somewhere else?

    If I were in charge, I would allow more leave time. I understand there may also be a problem with re-acclimation.
     
  6. arkem8

    arkem8 Regular Member

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    re: New Bunkers for troops

    Sir, I really don't believe the American Army.USAF or the MC has ever faced a whitish-blue icy hell-hole like Siachen. The closest analogy would be like small unit action w/ sporadic 105mm ARTY, M2/DSHK HMG, 60/81/120mm Mortar combat. Extremely high stress environs where you would not have an apetite even when there's plenty of snickers/Mars/Hershey bars around, where the urine threatens to freeze in ones p@#*s and fecal matter freezes into odorless, misshapen brown bricks....

    IIRC you happen to be an officer from the 10th Mountain Division...Maybe if the US was in our place it would be them that would deploy to a place like Siachen being a specialised Alpine unit.
    Also the INSAS, SLR(Indian made FAL), Akm's function well with rudimentary maintanence there, the DI gas impingement system on the AR-15, M-4/16 pattern rifles would in most probability flop and the Americans would have to use the AR variants with the gas piston.
    Very interesting--- the effect of the envirnment in assault weapons systems.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  7. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    re: New Bunkers for troops

    I'll try to answer at least part of your question. The US Army Mountain Warfare School is at Fort Benning, Georgia.

    The United States Army | Fort Benning

    Evidently some training occurs in the Green Mountains of Vermont.

    [​IMG]

    Highest peak is 1340 meters.

    Green Mountains - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Nothing like Siachen. The Rocky Mountains in western US would not be anything like Siachen.

    But I just do not see how "environmental enrichment" will help IA soldier.
     
  8. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    re: New Bunkers for troops

    Few things that might help :

    1. Majority of forwards areas need 100% Concrete structure..

    2. Should have RCWS in observation post which can be also manual ..

    3. Should have bathroom with tissue paper inside, So one does not need to go outside..

    4. Should have some means of producing electricity on its own ( Solar ) and a backup generator in case..

    5. Electric heater instead of Bukrai ( A pot of burning Coal ) which cause many death in past..

    6. Decorated inside of bunker with Chuna / Painted walls with different colors ..

    And there is no issue with dogs, there are plenty ..


    ===========================
    ===========================

    In short..
    From THIS >>

    [​IMG]


    To THIS >>

    [​IMG]


    With additional tools i mentioned..


    ============================
    ============================

    It sound expensive but it will help in Moral and Security..

    Though talking of expense we are spending on many things, This is just fraction of it to save life and enhance security where its most needed..
     
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    While such 'distractions' may be ideal to soothe the nerves, but too much of it will distract the soldier from their actual task.

    What is really required is more comfortable living conditions within the bunker and heating.

    The toilets require shaping up so that one can attend to one's need without getting frozen up.

    At those altitudes, one does not like eating and one tends to take eating merely to exist even though the fare is quite attractive. Some research should be done wherein the desire to eat increases.

    Better and closer hospital facilities should be organised rather than waiting for a helicopter to take the sick to Leh since High Altitude causes illness that require immediate attention. A starters there should be decompression chambers close at hand rather than only at Leh. Though there are decompression suits available on posts, but they cause a feeling of claustrophobia.

    The DRDO has already started farms that produces fresh vegetables whereas before everything had to come from the plains of Punjab or Kashmir Valley by air/ road.

    Nearly all posts have TV and radio and so one can keep abreast with the world and also soothe the nerves by listening to music.

    The greatest danger is that if the existence on a post becomes too 'cool', then one may get too distracted and make lose their efficiency and alertness.

    But then, that is my view.

    Lest I am misunderstood, I will say that when we lived in horrid bunkers or had to learn how to address the terrorist problem in Kashmir, we were so busy and alert that there was no incidents of fragging or suicide.

    Now, life is good in comparison. One can come home by chartered commercial aircraft and thereby cutting down time to unite with the family and the leave is there for the asking. And yet, unlike the yesteryears when life was really miserable, inspite of today's comfort, there is fragging, suicide and what is worse, insubordination which the media calls mutinies!

    I wonder why this is happening when the going is good and betting better.

    Any idea?
     
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  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: New Bunkers for troops

    While such 'distractions' may be ideal to soothe the nerves, but too much of it will distract the soldier from their actual task.

    What is really required is more comfortable living conditions within the bunker and heating.

    The toilets require shaping up so that one can attend to one's need without getting frozen up.

    At those altitudes, one does not like eating and one tends to take eating merely to exist even though the fare is quite attractive. Some research should be done wherein the desire to eat increases.

    Better and closer hospital facilities should be organised rather than waiting for a helicopter to take the sick to Leh since High Altitude causes illness that require immediate attention. A starters there should be decompression chambers close at hand rather than only at Leh. Though there are decompression suits available on posts, but they cause a feeling of claustrophobia.

    The DRDO has already started farms that produces fresh vegetables whereas before everything had to come from the plains of Punjab or Kashmir Valley by air/ road.

    Nearly all posts have TV and radio and so one can keep abreast with the world and also soothe the nerves by listening to music.

    The greatest danger is that if the existence on a post becomes too 'cool', then one may get too distracted and make lose their efficiency and alertness.

    But then, that is my view.

    Lest I am misunderstood, I will say that when we lived in horrid bunkers or had to learn how to address the terrorist problem in Kashmir, we were so busy and alert that there was no incidents of fragging or suicide.

    Now, life is good in comparison. One can come home by chartered commercial aircraft and thereby cutting down time to unite with the family and the leave is there for the asking. And yet, unlike the yesteryears when life was really miserable, inspite of today's comfort, there is fragging, suicide and what is worse, insubordination which the media calls mutinies!

    I wonder why this is happening when the going is good and betting better.

    Any idea?
     
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  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    A painting of a bunker of sandbags, stones, CGI sheets and 100 yds from the enemy sitting at a higher height!

    This post was built under enemy fire since they were already entrenched!

    No trees, no birds, only rocks and snow (in winters)!

    Actually, it was a cubby hole and cramped!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
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  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: New Bunkers for troops

    [​IMG]

    A painting of a bunker of sandbags, stones, CGI sheets and 100 yds from the enemy sitting at a higher height!

    This post was built under enemy fire since they were already entrenched!

    No trees, no birds, only rocks and snow (in winters)!

    Actually, it was a cubby hole and cramped!
     
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  13. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    There is flaw in they way of thinking, Is ..

    Sea waves, clipping birds are not the issue, And if one play such sounds it will give a min rest but at the end its not true..

    ============

    What is needed is to make things more Solider friendly and help to close the gap between him and his family.. >>

    My take here is to have a Computer system with web cam specially for Soldiers to see there families and loved ones online in secure channel twice a week, from another secure connection within army establishment..
    @Ray sir @sunnyv sir @LETHALFORCEsir @Decklandersir @flaming arrow @Victor Sierra
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  14. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Re: New Bunkers for troops

    There is flaw in they way of thinking, Is ..

    Sea waves, clipping birds are not the issue, And if one play such sounds it will give a min rest but at the end its not true..

    ============

    What is needed is to make things more Solider friendly and help to close the gap between him and his family.. >>

    My take here is to have a Computer system with web cam specially for Soldiers to see there families and loved ones online in secure channel twice a week, from another secure connection within army establishment..
    @Ray sir @sunnyv sir @LETHALFORCEsir @Decklandersir @flaming arrow @Victor Sierra
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    My experience with these psychologists, psychiatrists and such mental health specialist is that they are too well educted and good, but they are totally divorced of ground realities since they are no soldiers, but excellent medical men.

    Even if they come on flying visits on helicopters, they cannot comprehend the problems, combat related orphysical or mental of prolonged stay.

    At best they produce academic solutions that is lapped up by those who are desperate to find solutions so that the crown does not weigh too heavily on their head.

    @ Kunal,

    I don't know who commented, it could be the CRPF chief, who said that cell phones should not be allowed with those in counter insurgency areas since the force personnel can talk to their wives and family and when they state the problems back home, it adds stress to the already stressed SF personnel.

    There appears to be some merits in what he has said.

    What is required is that the facilities for the family left behind should be such that the family does not face the rigours of living alone attending to routine work. That is why in Separated Family quarters area, a mini township is created so that the needs are met at arms length. Likewise, the school buses and the KVs and transportation to the MI Room and hospital.

    Where the void lies is with the interaction with the Civil Administration.

    The District administration, judiciary and the police should fast track the issues raised by the soldier to including legal cases. If one knows that the civil administration cares and will act, then much of the problems will be solved.
     
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  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: New Bunkers for troops

    My experience with these psychologists, psychiatrists and such mental health specialist is that they are too well educted and good, but they are totally divorced of ground realities since they are no soldiers, but excellent medical men.

    Even if they come on flying visits on helicopters, they cannot comprehend the problems, combat related orphysical or mental of prolonged stay.

    At best they produce academic solutions that is lapped up by those who are desperate to find solutions so that the crown does not weigh too heavily on their head.

    @ Kunal,

    I don't know who commented, it could be the CRPF chief, who said that cell phones should not be allowed with those in counter insurgency areas since the force personnel can talk to their wives and family and when they state the problems back home, it adds stress to the already stressed SF personnel.

    There appears to be some merits in what he has said.

    What is required is that the facilities for the family left behind should be such that the family does not face the rigours of living alone attending to routine work. That is why in Separated Family quarters area, a mini township is created so that the needs are met at arms length. Likewise, the school buses and the KVs and transportation to the MI Room and hospital.

    Where the void lies is with the interaction with the Civil Administration.

    The District administration, judiciary and the police should fast track the issues raised by the soldier to including legal cases. If one knows that the civil administration cares and will act, then much of the problems will be solved.
     
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  17. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Sir, My point is mostly around the person on the field during regular duty in FOB over field areas in bunkers or very small area and very isolated one starts to feel he is not needed / purpose in life, Not many feel the same but few despite knowing his family back at home is safe in ca-torment, the few starts to isolate himself internally from others and this is where his problems starts which is same for others as he is living with them, And this is the stage where wrong ideas starts in once mind..

    Now many post of medium size have there own gyms with some bench and weights helps to divert attentions and there was always temple, though still i feel more need to be done..

    Regarding Webcam idea, Sir its from westerners as saw some vid on utube, Its safe harder to jam or intercept or hack as its an internet online with many safety features, Unlike wireless cell phones, though there are places where Satellite Phone is available but there is small number..

    Sir, Honestly there is little or no to expect from Civil administration, there attitude is very different regarding army, May be a hi-rank officer may have but a lower rank person`s problem have no solutions, Locals are with Locals and will always be with them coz they know we are on there land for short time and dont worth much in long run..


     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    That is the real problem.

    Disconnect between the troops and the leadership at all levels.

    I have visited quite a few units and it is not the same as in the old days.

    It is time for the Chiefs to force the Govt to amend its attitude and not toady around for a Governorship or becoming an Ambassador!
     
  19. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Some of my points in rough visual representation >>

    [​IMG]

    Bunkers can be be any shape and Size, But these updates can be done on them, Given they must be concrete and have some space..


    @sayareakd sir..
     
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  20. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    kunal sir our enemy is heavily armed once we put RCWS at bunker, they are going to take out our RCWS with heavy weapon.

    that is why this is good design.

    [​IMG]

    by doing this we can protect our RCWS.
     
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  21. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    sir plus the best advantage of this system is that we can operate it from remote area. Only dis advantage is that it consume lot of power, specially when power is in short supply in remote border area.
     
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