Indian Army fears China attack by 2017

Payeng

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I am in the opinion that both India and China can consider to have a strong neighbour than a strong enemy, though this is not the end of hostilities among the two giants, yet a workable mechanism just something like Russia and China did, a win-win situation where both can cooperate rather than rivaling each other, if also it is far from reality in the current day a possibility for such development would surely be of the interest of both the nations, atleast more than rivaling each other or lobbying around as a lower partner in the hands of a Super power.

Though I would never say we should stop our military build up or stop considering China as a threat, my idea is a better understanding with our neighbour.
 

johnee

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The scheme behind the offensive words is so seditious ,they want to make our two countries fight againest each other,and better not have an end,then ,they will reach their goal----the so called regional balance.
ha ha.....
the reason for the use of words like 'fear' in relation to our armed forces by our ultra secualar and ultra social media is because of its own inherent inferiority complex in regard of india vis a vis china.

but stop looking everything as a conspiracy of world against your country.
 

johnee

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I am in the opinion that both India and China can consider to have a strong neighbour than a strong enemy, though this is not the end of hostilities among the two giants, yet a workable mechanism just something like Russia and China did, a win-win situation where both can cooperate rather than rivaling each other, if also it is far from reality in the current day a possibility for such development would surely be of the interest of both the nations, atleast more than rivaling each other or lobbying around as a lower partner in the hands of a Super power.

Though I would never say we should stop our military build up or stop considering China as a threat, my idea is a better understanding with our neighbour.
IMO, we will have workable relation with china when china sees india as a serious competitor and strong opponent ie when china thinks that it is in its interest to work with india, only then will china cooperate. right now, india comes across as a pushover, nobody works with a pushover, they are just pushed around. I think the first place to assert for india is border incursions.
no one respects a nation whose soveirgnity is challenged everyday. like pak suffers drones, we suffer chinese incursions. maybe the degree is different but still it is voilation of our soveirgnity over our land. we need to stand up.

only when we act with self-respect will other nation respect us. workable relation must have mutual respect as basis.
 

yang

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never

ha ha.....
the reason for the use of words like 'fear' in relation to our armed forces by our ultra secualar and ultra social media is because of its own inherent inferiority complex in regard of india vis a vis china.

but stop looking everything as a conspiracy of world against your country.
I get used to see the ridiculous ideology of China threat theory, and what I don't like is the a false sense the reports give us,especially in names of liberty or humanrights,that is what really bored me.

That artical is just a piece of military issues.And I honored the Indian military a lot ,they are really responsible for the whole nation,and the military modernization plan is very great,the navy is highly developed ,too.
Hope we can have a air-conditioner soon as your navy.
 

johnee

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I get used to see the ridiculous ideology of China threat theory, and what I don't like is the a false sense the reports give us,especially in names of liberty or humanrights,that is what really bored me.

That artical is just a piece of military issues.And I honored the Indian military a lot ,they are really responsible for the whole nation,and the military modernization plan is very great,the navy is highly developed ,too.
Hope we can have a air-conditioner soon as your navy.
china claims arunachal pradesh(tawang) which is a part of india. china already occupies aksai chin which is also a part of india. china has already occupied tibet an independent country. china has formented trouble in our NE by helping the extremists/separatists. china and india have already fought a war and india defended itself with grave difficulty. india was unprepared for that war just because we had some leaders who were foolish enough to believe in the chinese sweet talk(very similar to the one you posted).
so, there is nothing wrong in being prepared.
ofcourse, if china were to give up its claim on arunachal pradesh and give back aksai chin, also not try to string pearls around us, we can definitely be very good neighbours.
 

yang

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we suffer chinese incursions. maybe the degree is different but still it is voilation of our soveirgnity over our land. we need to stand up.

only when we act with self-respect will other nation respect us. workable relation must have mutual respect as basis.
I don't think so,no one like wars,we want to live a rich and comfortable life,and we have a long time to go along this rugged road,but you sea,Nepel, Bhutan,Sikkim are under the control of India.And China faced a lot of Internal issues, the mainland-Taiwan issue alone let both mainland and Taiwan become the cash dispenser of some small countries,and be used as a weakness held by big countries.
China always operate on a win-win principle ,with other countries.
 

johnee

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I don't think so,no one like wars,we want to live a rich and comfortable life,and we have a long time to go along this rugged road,but you sea,Nepel, Bhutan,Sikkim are under the control of India.And China faced a lot of Internal issues, the mainland-Taiwan issue alone let both mainland and Taiwan become the cash dispenser of some small countries,and be used as a weakness held by big countries.
China always operate on a win-win principle ,with other countries.
I did not get the meaning of the last few lines of your post but your post contains some factual inaccuracies:

it is not nepel but Nepal(learn about wat your talking before you post)
Nepal and Bhutan are two independent states while sikkim is part of india. dont club them together.
Nepal/Bhutan is not under the control of india
Bhutan is friendly with india but Nepal is not. Nepal has a maoist govt which is friendly with china.
sikkim is part of india so there is no question of controlling it. I would expect you to research before posting and dont embarrass yourself by making such glaring gaffes.
 

yang

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china claims arunachal pradesh(tawang) which is a part of india. china already occupies aksai chin which is also a part of india. china has already occupied tibet an independent country. china has formented trouble in our NE by helping the extremists/separatists. china and india have already fought a war and india defended itself with grave difficulty. india was unprepared for that war just because we had some leaders who were foolish enough to believe in the chinese sweet talk(very similar to the one you posted).
so, there is nothing wrong in being prepared.
ofcourse, if china were to give up its claim on arunachal pradesh and give back aksai chin, also not try to string pearls around us, we can definitely be very good neighbours.

We can't see things that extremely,many times things are not so easy as our ordinary people have seen,the leaders must make everything into consideration.If you think your leaders are not wise,then our Chinese are really stupid,you know that ,every pair of shoes we manufactured,we earn only 2 cents and are cursed by the people of developed countries that we have taken their job opportunities ,they don't think the cheap products made by Chinese have made the CPI low,and let them kept a high level life.If we are smart,we can't do such thing,but we think it's a better thing than we earn nothing ,so we make a lot of money ,and create a lot of jobs for the farmers,and we have the money to build the modern infrastructure.And as we all know ,we have different views on the true border of India-China ,but I appreciate your patriotic feelings
 

yang

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I did not get the meaning of the last few lines of your post but your post contains some factual inaccuracies:

it is not nepel but Nepal(learn about wat your talking before you post)
Nepal and Bhutan are two independent states while sikkim is part of india. dont club them together.
Nepal/Bhutan is not under the control of india
Bhutan is friendly with india but Nepal is not. Nepal has a maoist govt which is friendly with china.
sikkim is part of india so there is no question of controlling it. I would expect you to research before posting and dont embarrass yourself by making such glaring gaffes.
I feel sorry about my poor English.
You should know why the Sikkim become one state of India,and Bhutan has no national rights by their own,Nepal is afraid of India a lot .
 

johnee

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I feel sorry about my poor English.
You should know why the Sikkim become one state of India,and Bhutan has no national rights by their own,Nepal is afraid of India a lot .
most of these seem to be your blind assumption and predisposed prejudices.
why is Nepal afraid of India(if your claim is right)?
Bhutan is the most peaceful country in this region, so why should anyone have problem with Bhutan when bhutanese are happy.
china has officially agreed that sikkim is a part of india. dont rake up a dead issue. if you want we can discuss about tibet or aksai chin.
 

johnee

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We can't see things that extremely,many times things are not so easy as our ordinary people have seen,the leaders must make everything into consideration.If you think your leaders are not wise,then our Chinese are really stupid,you know that ,every pair of shoes we manufactured,we earn only 2 cents and are cursed by the people of developed countries that we have taken their job opportunities ,they don't think the cheap products made by Chinese have made the CPI low,and let them kept a high level life.If we are smart,we can't do such thing,but we think it's a better thing than we earn nothing ,so we make a lot of money ,and create a lot of jobs for the farmers,and we have the money to build the modern infrastructure.And as we all know ,we have different views on the true border of India-China ,but I appreciate your patriotic feelings
your currency is undervalued and hence that gives you unfair advantage over other nations. basically CCP keeping your country ahead by unfair means.

so, you say since the borders are not been agreed upon, chinese incursions are valid. wat if we reverse the scenario? lets say we refuse to accept tibet as a part of china and then start conducting incursions into tibet by our army, how would you react?
 

Singh

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Hindi-chini bhai bhai: not quite, not yet

Good fences make good neighbours or as the Economist of London once put it in the context of US-Mexico border, "good neighbours make fences". Yet India and China, the two most populous countries of the world, with the largest standing armies, growing economies in competition, and, with two nuclear weapon powers aligned against us in a higher-than-the-Himalayas friendship, we do not even have the 4,057-kilometre land frontier delineated. Demarcation is a long way off.


It is wishful thinking that the burgeoning trade between the two countries will compensate for any lack of political depth in our relationship despite all the talk of strategic partnerships, a joint mechanism on counter-terror and joint military exercises. The hope held out is that improving trade and economic ties will pave the way for future reconciliation. If it were that simple then the China-Japan political relationship would have been qualitatively different today. Despite the massive bilateral trade and despite massive Japanese investments in China, the underlying political suspicions and age-old animosities have not disappeared.


So also with India and China. We do not seem to have recovered from our 1962 trauma and China is determined to keep us that way, psychologically and strategically handicapped. Even before India began to grow economically, China was intent on keeping India boxed in within its national boundaries. And now with growing competition for markets and resources, there is greater Chinese need to restrict India's reach and influence as a possible alternative and successful model of growth and governance. For long, Pakistan has been a low cost hedge for Chinese policymakers and the recent US-India warmth may worry Beijing even though it will continue to pretend public disdain.


China can be expected to maintain this posture so long as the Dalai Lama and the Tibet issue is not firmly solved in their favour. There are India China differences on Chinese nuclear, missile and military assistance to Pakistan. China will not give India the space it needs neither in the search for energy resources, markets or what India deems its rightful place on the High Table. Given the Chinese global position, its economic might and the US-Chinese interdependent relationship which neither will jeopardise for India's sake, the Chinese will not be in a hurry to resolve the boundary dispute.


It is India, therefore, that will have to set the pace. But this can only be done once there is a clear and honest appraisal of the nature of the problem, the issues involved and then think of possible solutions. This continued ambivalence sets in a lethargy that can be strategically self-defeating and India, therefore, needs a lasting solution. This is what Mohan Guruswamy and Zorawar Daulet Singh set out to do in their book India China Relations: the Border Issue and Beyond. The book is the result of a joint venture between the Centre for Policy Alternatives and the Observer Research Foundation, and its main advantage is that it is lucid, objective and well-argued; and the authors succinctly state their argument in about 140 pages apart from the appendices.
Quite early in the book, the authors make the point that the crux of the problem is the Aksai Chin which the British eventually left un-demarcated after following various boundary delineations that were largely dependent on how they saw the advance of the Russian threat into Tibet and Asia. Arunachal Pradesh was a later add-on following Indian reluctance to discuss Aksai Chin with the Chinese. The Chinese inability to handle the Tibet issue and the effects of the Cold War in South Asia had heightened Chinese fears. Further, India forward policy without thinking this through militarily and strategically aroused Chinese suspicions. Nevertheless, the Chinese have accepted the McMohan Line with Burma and have reached agreements on land frontiers with its other neighbours except India and Bhutan.


Having laid out the Legacy of the Great Game where the authors show how 19th and 20th century London viewed problems differently from how New Delhi saw, much like Washington and New Delhi see things differently today, the discussion then revolves around Tibet, China and India, how India inherited fuzzy frontiers leading on to the debacle of 1962. But it is time to move on and follow what Zhou Enlai had said in 1960 and later Deng Xiao Ping had suggested in 1981 - a package proposal calling for concessions on both sides. The authors have a way forward, which includes Indianising Tawang much more systematically than at present.


A great deal would depend on Indian self-confidence and the authors recommend that India is making too much out of the so called string of pearls strategy of the Chinese. They argue that "New Delhi's assessments should critically evaluate the economic and military rationales behind such moves. Imputing solely the latter and assuming it to be directed primarily against India, is too narrow an interpretation, stimulating equally insular policy options." India needs to take advantage of the geo-economic options by gaining connectivity to new economic and resource centres. There is realisation in New Delhi that the Chinese have now begun to rely on "its non-coercive and 'remunerative power' to advance its influence'' and recommend that it would be good policy for India to integrate the South Asian periphery with the Indian economic system and simultaneously to increase its economic interaction with Beijing. If only that this was so simple. There is no exclusive non-coercive infrastructure. China has improved its strategic position with the development of Gwadar and all the rail road linkages into Xinjiang that will follow, the Gormu Lhasa rail link that would be developed into Kathmandu and Chinese infrastructure linkages from Yunnan into Burma. India has nothing remotely comparable to this, inside Indian territory or in our neighbourhood.


It is more than just economics of course and Chinese scholars say that China sees India as what they call four in one with India falling into all four categories - of developing countries, neighbouring countries, rising powers and influential actors on the international stage. That being so there should be reason enough to settle the boundary problem. The 1914 Mcmahon Line is the natural non-negotiable Indian interest in the east just as the Aksai Chin is a similar non-negotiable Chinese interest in the western sector. The authors assert that the usual zero sum game is debilitating and counter-productive and recommend the broad acceptance of a de facto position as the de jure settlement is eminently doable. They have, therefore, suggested a way out of the logjam by accepting historical truths, ground realities and strategic requirements so that India does not miss the technological and economic revolution of the 21st century.

The main thrust of the book is that it is set in the present reality and prescribes a future course without letting the past be a burden. The book is forward-looking in its recommendations and it would be to our collective advantage to debate the issues they have raised.


Source : Asian Age , 30th March 2009 ( Book Review of the book titled " India-China Relations : The Border issues and Beyond , by Mohan Guruswamy & Zorawar Daulet Singh )

http://soodvikram.blogspot.com/2009/03/hindi-chini-bhai-bhai-not-quite-not-yet.html
 

Pintu

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A very nice article , Singhji, thanks for posting.

Regards,

Pintu.
 

Dark Sorrow

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I am wondering how effective will be the string of pearl strategy. In Indian Ocean IN is biggest and you can say most powerfull. It is almost impossible for PLAN to come all the way to Indian ocean and fight. The journey for ships and sub is more than 15,000 km if they wish to come to Indian ocean from South China Sea through interational waters. Most of the allies the chinese have in string of pearl starategy don't have a decent navy.
I am not considering USN in the entire discussion.
 

Shiny Capstar

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I am wondering how effective will be the string of pearl strategy. In Indian Ocean IN is biggest and you can say most powerfull. It is almost impossible for PLAN to come all the way to Indian ocean and fight. The journey for ships and sub is more than 15,000 km if they wish to come to Indian ocean from South China Sea through interational waters. Most of the allies the chinese have in string of pearl starategy don't have a decent navy.
I am not considering USN in the entire discussion.
Apparently it is next to useless militarily, although you would have to ask some dedicated China watchers to get a better idea.
 

Pintu

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I am posting an older report from The Tribune,

The Link and the Report follows:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20080510/main5.htm


Chinese N-subs no threat to India: Naval chief
Shiv Kumar
Tribune News Service

Mumbai, May 9
Submarines from the Chinese Navy operating out of an underground base in the South China Sea posed no threat to Indian interests, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta told reporters here at the end of the annual naval commanders’ conference today.

“When it is a nuclear submarine it does not matter if the base is 100 miles away or 200 miles,” Admiral Mehta said. According to reports, the Chinese nuclear submarine base is the closest such facility to India.

Admiral Mehta said the Chinese facility was part of that country’s strategy to extend its area of influence into the Indian Ocean.

“(Only) they did not have the assets till now,” Admiral Mehta said. According to him, the Indian Ocean was of strategic interest to the Chinese because of the volume of that country’s maritime trade in the region.

Admiral Mehta said the Navy would place an order with the Cochin

Shipyard for another aircraft carrier. Cochin Shipyard is already building an aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy which would be completed by 2012. According to the naval chief, the requirement of the Navy was for three aircraft carriers with two in operation and the third undergoing refits. A plan to roll out aircraft carriers at regular intervals had been mooted, he said.

India’s lone aircraft carrier INS Viraat is nearing the end of its life and its lifespan has been extended so that it is serviceable beyond 2012 when ‘Admiral Gorshkov’ (rechristened ‘INS Vikramaditya’) is inducted, Admiral Mehta said.

As part of measures to enhance the Navy’s sea denial capacity, six more Scorpene submarines are in the process of being ordered, Admiral Mehta said. The Mazgaon Docks at Mumbai is at present building six Scorpene submarines.

In addition, the Navy was acquiring the next generation Talwar-class ships.

The naval chief also stressed the need for more shipbuilding facilities in the country. At present, the Navy’s domestic shipbuilding requirements were being catered to by Mazagon Docks, Goa Shipyard, Cochin Shipyard and Garden Reach Shipbuilders.

Admiral Mehta welcomed efforts by private sector companies in this regard. He said the Navy would place orders with the shipyard to be built by Larsen and Toubro.

He added that software companies in the private sector like Satyam Technologies and Tata Consultancy Services had been roped in for building network-centric systems for the Navy.
 

FiDaYeEnMeNtAlItY

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i believe that China will attack us, if we dont change our image of soft state.we dont retailate so no body fears us even Nepal....belive it man....
it i s the need of the hour that we should act like USA against our enemies,but we dont.

superpower is not only about economy but its more about capabilty to destroy the enemy and stop wars by supreme firepower,military.
 

Su-47

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i believe that China will attack us, if we dont change our image of soft state.we dont retailate so no body fears us even Nepal....belive it man....
it i s the need of the hour that we should act like USA against our enemies,but we dont.

superpower is not only about economy but its more about capabilty to destroy the enemy and stop wars by supreme firepower,military.
I agree with you completely man. Its our image of a soft state that led to us being invaded and plundered for Thousands of years by the Persians, Afghans and Europeans. Same with China. Atleast the chinese have moved on after the Japanese brutalities in WW2. Now nobody messes with China. We should also take a much stronger stance on national security. Make it clear that we are prepared for any attacks, and that we are willing to fight to the last man.

I think first step towards that would be to scrap the 'no-first-use' policy for nukes. Nukes shouldn't be for show. They should be for deterrence. In other words, the enemy shouldn't attack us in the fear of nuclear retaliation. Look at Pak. They know they'll be wiped out iff they nuke us, but they still claim they will if India attacks. We should have a similar policy. Tell China that we know they can wipe us out, but if they attack, we will set them back a 100 years. That should be a good enough deterrent. Also, buld up more military infrastructure in the North and North East. Let them know that we are prepared, and that any misadventures will cost them greatly.

Only when they see that we are serious about addressing their threat, will they take us seriously, and then we can work towards a peace policy as equals. Any peace process requires the parties involved to work together as equals. otherwise its not a peace process, but the accession of one nation to the other.

Let us hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.
 

ppgj

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China learns that 2009 is not 1962

By Amulya Ganguli Published : November 2009

The inscrutable Chinese are supposed to take every step after careful deliberation. Whether it is Mao Zedong’s smile for an Indian envoy to open a new chapter after the 1962 conflict or the summoning of the Indian ambassador in Beijing to the foreign office at 2 a.m. to express displeasure, the Mandarins are believed to be sticklers for sign language.

The perceptible downturn in Sino-Indian relations, therefore, could not have been an unrehearsed event. It began a few years ago with the Chinese ambassador’s assertions on the disputed status of Arunachal Pradesh and Beijing’s decision to unilaterally disown the 2005 agreement to leave inhabited areas out of the proposed solutions for the boundary question.

These incidents were followed by reports of an increase in border incursions by Chinese patrols, attempts to block the Asian Development Bank’s loans for Arunachal Pradesh, the filibustering by Chinese delegates at the Nuclear Suppliers Group’s meetings on the India-US nuclear deal, the stapling of visas on the passports of Kashmiris, the depiction of Kashmir as a separate country in Chinese-made globes, involvement in development projects in Pakistanoccupied Kashmir, and so on.

Arguably, the Chinese had convinced themselves that India needed to be taught another “lesson”, as they purportedly did in 1962, to show who was the boss in Asia, especially to the neighbouring countries, none of which matched (or hoped to match) Beijing’s might. It is also possible that China believed that its expected emergence as No.2 to the US necessitated a perceptible snubbing of India, its only potential rival in Asia.

These long dormant Middle Kingdom sentiments are not entertained by the communist regime alone. For instance, Chiang Kai-shek’s book, “China’s Destiny”, listed Tibet, Mongolia, Nepal, Bhutan, Sikkim, Burma and Vietnam as his country’s lost territories.

Well-known historian R C Mazumdar also noted that “if a region once acknowledged her (China’s) nominal suzerainty even for a short period, she would regard it as a part of her empire forever and would automatically revive her claim over it even after a thousand years”.

This attitude of aggrandisement contrasts sharply with India’s benignity and lack of imperialistic ambitions. Although Southeast Asia, from Cambodia to Bali, demonstrates the overwhelming presence of Indian influence, there has never been any question of India claiming these lands as its own.

The same spirit of generosity and friendship was shown by India to Beijing when it rejected the Two China theory preferred by the US in the 1950s and 60s and strongly advocated Beijing’s membership of the United Nations even after the deterioration in Sino-Indian relations.

(The Chinese have even forgotten to say Thank You).

As a report on a conference of governors in 1959 said, late prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru gave the “reasons for the stand taken by India in the UN on the question of the entry of China into the organisation though there was resentment in the country about China’s hostile attitude towards India”. Nehru had also accompanied Zhou Enlai as a big brother at the Bandung conference in 1955.

But China never reciprocated these friendly gestures.

Instead, as Nehru said after the 1962 war, “it was wrong to assume that the Chinese undertook this aggression only because they wanted some patches of territory...China did not want any country near her which was not prepared to accept her leadership; so India had to be humiliated”.

Continuing, he said, “though India would not interfere with what was happening within China, yet she came in China’s way by the mere fact of her separate political structure and pursuing a separate policy which was succeeding”.

These factors are apparently still riling China. Not only is India emerging as a major regional power with a robust economy which has weathered the storm of recession with reasonable success, its “separate political structure” of a widely admired multicultural democracy contrasts sharply with China’s obviously repressive one-party rule.

What is more, while Pakistan’s degeneration into a dysfunctional state robs China of an “all-weather friend” which it could use to needle India, Beijing’s own peripheries have become seedbeds of trouble. Let alone subdue its neighbours, the aspiring Middle Kingdom is not even in full control over Tibet and Xinjiang, not to mention Taiwan. Nor is it able to hide the growing rural unrest over the disparity between the rich and the poor.

It is apparently because of such restiveness that even the supposedly monolithic communist party is divided. On one side are the so-called populists, who include President Hu Jintao and Prime Minister Web Jiabao, with their preference for a level-playing field between the poor Western regions and the more affluent urban areas on the eastern coast and on the other side are the elitists, who want faster growth based on the free market.

It was perhaps to divert attention from all these difficulties by ratcheting up nationalistic fervour that China thought of provoking India. But its miscalculation was that it did not take into account the fact that India in 2009 was different from its naive and militarily unprepared self in 1962.

The blow to its pride in that year has led to an augmentation of its military prowess, which it is no longer hesitant to display. India also seems to have realised that the Chinese misinterpret politeness as weakness. Hence it chose to ignore Beijing’s objections to the Dalai Lama’s visit to Arunachal Pradesh.

It is possible that the Chinese will now pay greater heed to the second part of the advice of Sun Tzu, the military genius of 6th century B.C., who said the winner is the person who “knows when to fight and when not to fight”.

© India Strategic

..:: India Strategic ::.. China learns that 2009 is not 1962
 

jesu2008

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@yang

I think yang is high on opium...
:thumbs_thmbdn:
He says chinese shed tears for Pak...:twizt:
yang take some rest..and there is a famous dialogue from our film
"GET WELL SOON MAMU" :goodstuff:
 

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