Indian Army Artillery

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Rage, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Following a flurry of articles that appeared in various Indian media on Aug. 25 2009 about Indian artillery acquisitions remaining in limbo even while Pak procured, over the course of the last four-and-a-half years, 67 M-109 A5 155 mm howitzers from America using 'War on Terror' funds, the following news announcement from Indian Defence Online is a revision to and an update of the procurement status, with a reissued, heightened tender for the induction of 2814 artillery of different types. While it is true there has been not a single artillery procurement since the Bofors scandal, India still has in its posession, the following:

    This is from a now dated article from late 1998, however in light of the fact that no artillery procurements have subsequently followed, it still stands.



    The Field Artillery has in its service:


    - One regiment each of 7.2 in and 5.5 in guns for general support;
    both weapons were expected to be taken out of service by 1998.


    - The Bofors 155 mm FH-77B howitzer used for general support and
    counter-bombardment. This weapon is also deployed in the mountains
    with six howitzers in Siachen and an 18-weapon regiment in both
    Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh. A total of 410 FH-77s against a
    projected requirement of over 2,000 were procured in 1986. The
    programme came into disrepute because of alleged bribes to
    politicians (the Bofors scandal refered to aforthwith).


    - The towed 130 mm M-46 field gun and the 130 mm Catapult
    self-propelled gun (which equips only one regiment) used for
    close support, general support and counter battery fire.
    India procured about 400 Russian M-46s between 1992-95 for around
    Rs.100,000 ($2,800) apiece. The Field Artillery now has 720 M-46s in
    36 regiments and plans to have 60 regiments equipped by 2000.


    - The 122 mm D-30 towed howitzer used for close support by multiple
    regiments deployed on the plains.


    - Many regiments now equipped with the 105 mm Indian Field Gun, and
    earmarked to convert to the M-46.


    - The 105 mm Light Field Gun equips regiments deployed in the
    mountains. - The last regiment of 105 mm Abbot self-propelled guns
    will soon be phased out.


    - The 75 mm Pack Gun-Howitzer used to provide close support in
    mountainous regions. While the splinter effect of its shells is
    greater than the 25 pounder gun, its effect on defensive positions remains
    unsatisfactory.


    - The 160 mm M58 Tampella. The Field Artillery is also equipped with the
    120 mm AM-50 Brand smoothbore which can be used to a range of 9,000 m
    with PEPA/LP extended range ammunition.​


    ----

    And now for the good news:


    Indian Army to Execute $4 Billion Artillery Projects

    August 27, 2009
    http://indiadefenceonline.com/1125/indian-army-to-execute-4-billion-artillery-projects/



    India is all set to initiate the long-awaited $4 billion artillery modernisation programme and will shortly float a global tender for the acquisition of 814 motorised howitzers.

    The Artillery modernisation programme aims to induct roughly 2,814 guns of different types.


    Defence Ministry sources said that the project has been granted approval by the Defence Acquisitions Council which is chaired by Defence Minister A K Antony and the Request for Proposal will be issued.

    The artillery modernization includes off-the-shelf purchase of 200 155mm/52-calibre mounted gun systems from overseas, which will be followed by indigenous manufacture of another 614 such howitzers under transfer of technology.

    The 17-tonne motorized howitzers will arm 40 regiments.

    Another major project includes the purchase of 100 155mm/52-calibre self-propelled tracked guns for five artillery regiments and its field trials are slated for May-June 2010.

    India is also looking to finalize the Rs 8,000 crore project to buy 400 155mm/52-calibre towed artillery guns, which is to be followed by indigenous manufacture of another 1,180 howitzers.

    The contenders are BAE Systems, ST Kinetics of Singapore and Israeli Soltam.


    Another project was to acquire 140 air-mobile ultra-light howitzers (ULHs) for Rs 2,900 crore. This is being eagerly awaited since the Indian Army needs ULHs to ensure artillery can be deployed in remote inaccessible areas.


    India’s artillery modernization has been plagued with scandals and delays for decades.

    No new artillery gun has been inducted ever since the infamous Rs 1,437 crore Bofors contract for 410 field howitzers became a scandal in 1986.

    After that, a series of other delays including more dubious defence scams have kept India from modernizaing its artillery.

    Lately, ST Kinetics has also come under the scanner for corruption charges.


    Indian Army to Execute $4 Billion Artillery Projects | India Defence Online
     
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  3. skg

    skg New Member

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    dear all,

    i am new member , and i want to know about india own Artillery devlopment project , is drdo thinking about that .
     
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  4. Mohan

    Mohan Respected Member

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    Please introduce yourself at member introductions thread:)
     
  5. MIG_ACE

    MIG_ACE New Member

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    Hmmm... the article mentions "Floating a Tender" IIRC, the trials of atleast one type of artillery guns (think it was the towed howitzers) were completed and the Bofors gun was found to be the best. I remember reading an article on Shiv Aroor's blog. The govt. backed down because they were scared of giving another contract to Bofors after last time's scandal.
    So if we are floating another tender, what about the previous trials. And what about the fact that the MoD went on a blacklisting spree and blacklisted everyone in sight including Denel, Soltam and that Singaporean firm?
     
  6. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    This is one of the most neglected arms of the IA IMO.

    Even after demonstrating it's usefulness in the Kargil operations we are still nowhere in procuring the Howitzers to equip our army. Out of the 410 purchased from Bofors in the 80s IIRC only about 60% are in use due to the paucity of spares. IA has been forced to cannabalise many of it's artillery pieces to service the remaining.

    This is a very sad state of affairs. I was reading in today's paper that even BAE has withdrawn from the tender. Could other members with more infor on this issue update us.
     
  7. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Pegasus is offering the Light howitzer...but we need self propelled ones...I think Ceaser is a front runner in it.
     
  8. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    I always stand beside the Bofors...the latest one's specs look awesome.
     
  9. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    I would personally support the "Caesar truck-mounted howitzer".

    The Caeser is forward-facing 155mm/52 calibre gun is mounted on a 4x4 or 6x6 truck chassis depending on the terrain it has to be deployed in and can maintain a firing rate of six to eight rounds a minute in sustained fire.

    Caesar has an unrefuelled travel range of 600km and maximum speed of 100km/h.

    Its low weight of around 18 tonnes reduces both complexity and cost. Its strategic, operational and tactical mobility is superior to that of both the self-propelled guns and towed guns. It matches the reactivity of the self-propelled guns and the light weight of the towed variety.

    When compared with a towed gun and its hauler, the Caesar is shorter and requires less space, is far more mobile and maneuverable, both cross country and on the road, and requires fewer gun crew members (5 to be exact).

    When on the move, gun crew survival is ensured by an armoured cab, and the time spent stationary at the firing position is very short.

    Transfer of technology is mandated under India's Defence Procurement Procedure enunciated in 2006 & i dont think France will have a problem with this.

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  10. natarajan

    natarajan Senior Member Senior Member

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    bofor helped us in kargil to great extent like bvr missiles for airforce so so we should get atleast 1000 bofors and we should forgot about scandal atleast for the nations benefit
     
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  11. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    Dear Natarajan,

    the Bofors was a choice made in the 80's Decade (era to be specific) today we need more advanced & smart weapons. the gun we must look out for is truck-mounted artillery system, which is highly mobile (a better option then tower guns), a tested system (Caesar is operational with the Thai Army, the Saudi Arabian National Guard & the French Army), with a decent firing rate, and use a wide range of ammunition.
     
  12. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Bofors Defence and Giat Industries 155 mm/52 calibre SPA artillery system (International) - Jane's Armour and Artillery

    This is the latest bofors that we are talking about...that is the old model...Giat and Bofors are in fray together.
     
  13. BOSS-Is-Back

    BOSS-Is-Back New Member

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    The ia should be looking for truck mobile units like the pinakas, though costly are effective and has a wider range. In modern warfare, artilerry systems wont play a major role, only if the war is subjected to a lower and much controlled scale.
    The use of artillery, is to bombard the enemy posts b4 foot soldiers enter, or to stop/slow advances of incmng enemy regiments. This can be done more efficiently by pinaka type systems , (even cheaper and low range ones's are effective)., and not to forget our iaf with a2g missiles having range over 300kms.
    Its just my views though...................
     
  14. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    maybe our babu's are afraid about the name of bofors, actually last time when the same tender was done bofors won in all requirement IA asked for,
    but these netas thought it to be given to IAI Soltrum or Israel , but this failed to achieve wat IA wanted , so they scraped the tender and called for new tender.
    maybe atleast now IAI's wins and sign deal soon.
     
  15. MIG_ACE

    MIG_ACE New Member

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    What in the world gave you that idea?? MBRLs have their uses, but they cannot totally replace artillery guns. Every "modern" army in the world including the US army uses artillery.
     
  16. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Have you considered the cost factor of a rocket or a missile vis a vis a artillery shell? Also how many reloads a Pinaka regiment carry before it runs dry? Or operational cost of a multirole a/c?

    An artillery regiment can stay at a place unlike an A2G a/c and continue bombarding on enemy with sustained fire for far longer time than MBRLs.

    MBRLs play very vital role and sometimes those are of artillery too. But artillery is most cost-effective and reasonable choice for enemy fire suppression within range.

    When artillery shells rain down on enemy position for hours continuously, before infantry rushes in it already has given a heavy blow to enemy morale and reinforced defences, which only a good artillery system can deliver.

    BTW, do you know John?
     
  17. BOSS-Is-Back

    BOSS-Is-Back New Member

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    Well , as i said are completly my views, and if debated wld go prolonged.
     
  18. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

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    if babus fear so much that CBI will come running after them, why don't they ask DRDO to start development of new artillery or atleast jointly develop it.

    Koreans, Singapore, Israel, european countries. everyone have come up with their own artillery, and India neither is importing nor is developing for more than 20 years.

    if Govt planning to import Artillery forever, such a decisive piece of weapon on battlefield but still call themselves a potential military power in Asia?

    right now even Pakistan would be a in better position when it comes to artillery.
     
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Can't we build on the Bhim to develop into a good arty system? Many components will be similar. We know how to make guns as proved in Arjun. Wonder why we have not moved in thst direction.
     
  20. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    AFAIK Bhim project was indefinitely postponed when Soltam investigation started. Soltam was supposed to collaborate with DRDO to build Bhim.
     
  21. ant80

    ant80 Regular Member

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    Bofors buried as govt drops case against Quattrocchi
    Date: September 30, 2009
     

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