Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Chinmoy]

so the Million dollar question is wather the IAF is going to buy the Viper

Billion dollar question is, would Pakistan still go for upgraded Made In India F-16.

 

[Sam Biswas]

We are not going to fight any big scale war in immediate future..

That is what Nehru thought in the 1960s and ended up loosing the war with China. A strong Air Force is the best deterrent for a war. Otherwise Chinese planes will be buzzing Indian Parliament.

IAF really does not have reliable fighter jets given the condition of Su30. Tejas will be great but in ten years. It is unlikely to have large enough production to support IAF. India needs a highly reliable low-cost fighter jet like F-16bk70. LM and Tata are the most reputable to move the project forward quickly. This will guarantee a smooth supply of fighter jets for IAF.

There still will be room for all the Tejas India can produce as well as AMCA in the future.

 

[Vijyes]

That is what Nehru thought in the 1960s and ended up loosing the war with China. A strong Air Force is the best deterrent for a war. Otherwise Chinese planes will be buzzing Indian Parliament.

IAF really does not have reliable fighter jets given the condition of Su30. Tejas will be great but in ten years. It is unlikely to have large enough production to support IAF. India needs a highly reliable low-cost fighter jet like F-16bk70. LM and Tata are the most reputable to move the project forward quickly. This will guarantee a smooth supply of fighter jets for IAF.

There still will be room for all the Tejas India can produce as well as AMCA in the future.

We need 2000 Tejas/small planes, 2000 AMCA/5th gen planes for world war 3. 50-100 F16 equals 0 for ww3. Have what's needed or don't have. Why are you insisting on having F16? Why Tejas uncertain? Reason? Tejas Mk1A already flown. Mk2 - merely larger Tejas with AESA, EW. Longer range BVR developing and 20km BVR tested successfully. Why do you want F16? Why not fund Tejas development by 3-4billion USD?

We do have enough missiles & nukes for mass salvos. Why make extreme urgency for jets? There is a joke where a boy studies all night for the exam and then ends up asleep on the exam day! Your suggestion is on similar lines.

Do you get payment for writing such things here? Are you a foreign lobbyist?

 

[Vijyes]

16 is the ideal scenario and given the current situation they are not gonna meet that ... Why ? When is FOC getting achieved. They knew the order size when the timeline were made As per IAF Mk1A will be better than Mk1 100 per year are you kidding me for that you will need atleast 1000+ on order or even more. 16 is the line capacity at max, given the spare and private vendors .One cannot reach that rate in this scenario Thats currently a bit optimistic Given everything goes as per plan which usually do not But currently both are at stand still You wanna build 114 aircrafts over 15 years not a good rate True but thats what resource management is This is unrealistic and contradicting what you said about the rate of production that it will be ramped to 16 next year.

Never did i mention that by next year 16 tejas will be made. All i am saying is that there is a need to keep employees on work.
What's optimistic or pessimistic is not yours to decide. You must give a reason why do you think Mk2 won't be completed by 2023. Which component is deficient? Why would that take more time? Are you saying we wll never develop anything at all forever regardless of congress or BJP at centre?

Who says that we are at stand still? Do you have reasons? Who wants 114 planes over 15 years? We can make 100+ planes per year when needed. Ramping up production is easy. As long as technology is indian, ramping up production is not a problem. Just more plants needs to be set up.

How much do you get paid to speak like this unreasonably? You better give absolute reasons to say what is deficient and what takes so much time other than congress govt at centre?

 

[Sam Biswas]

We need 2000 Tejas/small planes, 2000 AMCA/5th gen planes for world war 3. 50-100 F16 equals 0 for ww3. Have what's needed or don't have. Why are you insisting on having F16? Why Tejas uncertain? Reason? Tejas Mk1A already flown. Mk2 - merely larger Tejas with AESA, EW. Longer range BVR developing and 20km BVR tested successfully. Why do you want F16? Why not fund Tejas development by 3-4billion USD?

We do have enough missiles & nukes for mass salvos. Why make extreme urgency for jets? There is a joke where a boy studies all night for the exam and then ends up asleep on the exam day! Your suggestion is on similar lines.

Do you get payment for writing such things here? Are you a foreign lobbyist?

There are many problems with your statements. Tejas have a very poor thirty-year track record. It will be a while before IAF will be able to depend on it. You may need but India does not need more than 400 jets in 10-20 years. It needs only 50 stealth like F-35. F-16 can easily fill the gap without killing India's budget for let's say agriculture. F-16 is the most widely used fighter jet in the world. Even used F-16s are in high demand by NATO countries. It will give India time to mature Tejas MK1/MK2. Only reason someone may be opposed to it could only be because it is made by a US manufacturer.

Its cheap cost, high reliability, low cost of maintenance, US willingness to transfer the manufacturing and share the technology will be attractive to IAF as well as politicians like NaMo and Jaitley. Like it or NOT, it is going to happen. Any other option will be many times more expensive for India.

 

[Vijyes]

There are many problems with your statements. Tejas have a very poor thirty-year track record. It will be a while before IAF will be able to depend on it. You may need but India does not need more than 400 jets in 10-20 years. It needs only 50 stealth like F-35. F-16 can easily fill the gap without killing India's budget for let's say agriculture. F-16 is the most widely used fighter jet in the world. Even used F-16s are in high demand by NATO countries. It will give India time to mature Tejas MK1/MK2. Only reason someone may be opposed to it could only be because it is made by a US manufacturer.

Its cheap cost, high reliability, low cost of maintenance, US willingness to transfer the manufacturing and share the technology will be attractive to IAF as well as politicians like NaMo and Jaitley. Like it or NOT, it is going to happen. Any other option will be many times more expensive for India.

Don't repeat the same story of 30 year old project. Tejas is just 20 years old and that too 10 years under UPA (waste). Began actual development @ 1998 after getting approval @ around 1991-2.

"Like it or NOT, it is going to happen"! Really? Why don't you say that only 10 jets are needed? Why even 400? Just a bad joke. Not funny at all. That's what was my suspicion - You are paid writer. Suspicion confirmed

 

[Sam Biswas]

Don't repeat the same story of 30 year old project. Tejas is just 20 years old and that too 10 years under UPA (waste). Began actual development @ 1998 after getting approval @ around 1991-2.

"Like it or NOT, it is going to happen"! Really? Why don't you say that only 10 jets are needed? Why even 400? Just a bad joke. Not funny at all. That's what was my suspicion - You are paid writer. Suspicion confirmed

Your rambling is Hilarious!! Really!! Need to chill out.

 

[indiatester]

2016 Pathankot terror attack: Airbase commander resigns after IAF report exposes security holes
Terrorists stormed the frontline fighter base of the Indian Air Force (IAF) near the India-Pakistan border on January 2 last year.


The Defence Security Corps soldiers who were mowed down by terrorist at the Pathankot airbase on January 2, 2016 perhaps could have been saved had the terrorist been pinned down, an internal inquiry has now revealed in a report accessed by India Today.

Terrorists stormed the frontline fighter base of the Indian Air Force (IAF) near the India-Pakistan border on January 2 last year. The operation to flush out the terrorist lasted for three days during which seven security personnel were killed.

The inquiry was ordered after Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in a meeting with top security officials, expressed his displeasure and concern over the manner in which terrorist stormed the airbase. The IAF, which initially hadn't ordered an inquiry, was forced to order one. The inquiry conducted by Air Vice-Marshal Amit Dev is understood to have revealed that basic security protocol weren't followed at the airbase and has apportioned responsibility on senior IAF officials at the airbase.

The inquiry is understood to have concluded that the airbase wasn't able to come-up with comprehensive plan to defend the airbase although there was clear and precise intelligence about the attack.

The then Pathankote Airbase Commander Air Commodore J S Dhamoon, an officer who finds mention in the inquiry report, has put in his papers. Besides, some IAF officers and soldiers are likely to lose their seniority as a punishment for not following procedure, top sources said. The then security officer of the airbase has also come in for criticism.

Shockingly the route used by the terrorist to enter the airbase was flagged-up as a "vulnerable point" a few months prior to the attack. A mentally unstable man breached the security and entered the airbase using the same route, sources said the report has observed.

The report says that security of the 2000 acre frontline airbase had several gaps and standard operating procedure to secure installations had been violated making it easy for the terrorist to enter and hide within the base. For instance the inquiry says that trees and under-growth along the perimeter wasn't removed. Guard post along the perimeter weren't properly maintained and flood lights along the airbase to detect intrusions weren't functioning or maintained.

Interestingly, the inquiry has also found that the airbase security failed to detect ropes - used to climb the airbase wall, personal clothing item and food left behind by the terrorist when they entered the airbase even though base was on a high alert.

The Ministry of Defence didn't respond to queries of India Today.

Earlier last month, the Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa in a personnel letter to the IAF personnel had warned about lax standards, lack of professionalism in the force and favouritism creeping into the forces. The letter sent to 12000 officers of the IAF said that there was no room for slackness in the force.

FALL-OUT OF THE INQUIRY

Garud commandos - the special forces of the Indian Air Force - who were first to interdict the terrorist on January 2, 2016, will now be deployed along the Indian Army in counter-terror operations in Jammu and Kashmir. "The Garuds are a competent force, but they need to battle hardened. Based on the inquiry report the government has decided to deploy them in Jammu and Kashmir for battle inoculation," top sources said.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/pathankot-terrorist-attack-airbase-commander-sacked/1/983201.html

 

[Pulkit]

Never did i mention that by next year 16 tejas will be made. All i am saying is that there is a need to keep employees on work.

I do not know whats ur background but i did work in aerospace for a brief period of 3 years so I know at what pace it moves.You never said that true but that's what u meant as per my understanding. They need to keep employee when they do not have those many orders? If they are gonna move them they are gonna loose the experience and expertise they will get during this tenure . Machine and process understanding

What's optimistic or pessimistic is not yours to decide.

Yes its not , but I do have right to express myself

You must give a reason why do you think Mk2 won't be completed by 2023.

Right now the Focus is between FGFA and Tejas HAL version FOC is yet not achieved once they attain that then only real work on MK2 will start. Do you know after making a TD it takes few years to test and Tejas Mk2 is a complete design change you might think that the change is not enough but the standards they have to maintain are huge. One Stabliser Clip or frame or stringer changes one has to test the entire aircraft again. A change in material also has the same impact .

Which component is deficient?

Design is still not finalised

Why would that take more time?

because it takes time alot of process are in place to assure quality and safety

Are you saying we wll never develop anything at all forever regardless of congress or BJP at centre?

I am saying it will take time the current time lines are unrealistic

Who says that we are at stand still? Do you have reasons?

If we are not have you seen, observed come across any major change in recent times

Who wants 114 planes over 15 years?

At least i don't

We can make 100+ planes per year when needed.

No we cannot we donot have that kind of Infra Money and sources

Ramping up production is easy.

No its not

As long as technology is indian, ramping up production is not a problem.

As long as tech is Indian As long as. Even then No

Just more plants needs to be set up.

Increases investment and cost

How much do you get paid to speak like this unreasonably?

Just being realistic not high as you

You better give absolute reasons to say what is deficient and what takes so much time other than congress govt at centre?

Development Tech Takes Time, Production Takes time, testing takes Time, getting certification takes hell alot of time.
I have given reason but you have not supported your timelines.

 

[Vijyes]

I do not know whats ur background but i did work in aerospace for a brief period of 3 years so I know at what pace it moves.You never said that true but that's what u meant as per my understanding. They need to keep employee when they do not have those many orders? If they are gonna move them they are gonna loose the experience and expertise they will get during this tenure . Machine and process understanding Yes its not , but I do have right to express myself Right now the Focus is between FGFA and Tejas HAL version FOC is yet not achieved once they attain that then only real work on MK2 will start. Do you know after making a TD it takes few years to test and Tejas Mk2 is a complete design change you might think that the change is not enough but the standards they have to maintain are huge. One Stabliser Clip or frame or stringer changes one has to test the entire aircraft again. A change in material also has the same impact . Design is still not finalised because it takes time alot of process are in place to assure quality and safety I am saying it will take time the current time lines are unrealistic If we are not have you seen, observed come across any major change in recent times At least i don't No we cannot we donot have that kind of Infra Money and sources No its not As long as tech is Indian As long as. Even then No Increases investment and cost Just being realistic not high as you
Development Tech Takes Time, Production Takes time, testing takes Time, getting certification takes hell alot of time.
I have given reason but you have not supported your timelines.

You don't seem to understand one concept - world doesn't work on money. Only western world works that way. People can work just for food too. For survival cases, people do work for just food. Did Russia win due to money in WW2?

Did Germans succeed to such an extent due to money?

 

[Pulkit]

You don't seem to understand one concept - world doesn't work on money. Only western world works that way. People can work just for food too. For survival cases, people do work for just food. Did Russia win due to money in WW2?

Did Germans succeed to such an extent due to money?

Wake up.... World works on Money and For Money.
If such a thing was there like "Just for food" No nation none at all in the world would have been underdeveloped or developing. All Nations would have been at same level.

i responded you on every point and you just replied by saying you dont seen to understand ... wao....
Please share some information instead of tar-getting me.....

Do not want to go off topic here. If you have something relevant please share.

 

[tharun]

Wake up.... World works on Money and For Money.
If such a thing was there like "Just for food" No nation none at all in the world would have been underdeveloped or developing. All Nations would have been at same level.

i responded you on every point and you just replied by saying you dont seen to understand ... wao....
Please share some information instead of tar-getting me.....

Do not want to go off topic here. If you have something relevant please share.

Calm down,he is just a confused kid....................

 

[Vijyes]

Wake up.... World works on Money and For Money.
If such a thing was there like "Just for food" No nation none at all in the world would have been underdeveloped or developing. All Nations would have been at same level.

i responded you on every point and you just replied by saying you dont seen to understand ... wao....
Please share some information instead of tar-getting me.....

Do not want to go off topic here. If you have something relevant please share.

Today's world is westernised and corrupt. One mustn't take today's world as correct. That is why we call it kali yuga. Don't bother about western concept of development. According to them life is all about pursuit of happiness. Happiness is nothing but hormonal pleasure. Essentially, life is all about being a drug addict according to westerners. Just living as drug addict to end up dead is the most absurd way of living. You don't seem to understand the holistic picture of life.

As i told, indigenous arms cost 0. Only a fool would buy imported goods when the same can be made domestically.

All i can say is that in world war 3 (25 years from now), what i said will happen and because of this absurdity going on

 

[airtel]

old news but ...............according to Malaysian PM , India wants their old MIG-29 and exchange we will provide the components of Sukhoi 30 .

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/0d...MiG29-fighter-jets-from-Malaysia-Najib-R.html

 

[mayfair]

If we are getting old MiG 29s, why don't we scour around for used Mirage 2000-5s as well?

 

[indiandefencefan]

If we are getting old MiG 29s, why don't we scour around for used Mirage 2000-5s as well?

Old mig-29s will most likely be purchased so we can cannibalize them for spare parts due unreliable Russian suppliers.

On the other we already have modernization and support contracts inked with Dassault so spare parts are in no short supply for the Mirage 2000s.

 

[Pulkit]

Calm down,he is just a confused kid....................

I am completely Calm and the person seems to be old enough to have views.
This do get interesting as it is a totally new point of view no matter how weird it gets...

 

[Pulkit]

Today's world is westernised and corrupt. One mustn't take today's world as correct. That is why we call it kali yuga. Don't bother about western concept of development. According to them life is all about pursuit of happiness. Happiness is nothing but hormonal pleasure. Essentially, life is all about being a drug addict according to westerners. Just living as drug addict to end up dead is the most absurd way of living. You don't seem to understand the holistic picture of life.

As i told, indigenous arms cost 0. Only a fool would buy imported goods when the same can be made domestically.

All i can say is that in world war 3 (25 years from now), what i said will happen and because of this absurdity going on

I will only reply specifics so....
Indigenous arms cost "0" , whats your point? In which scenario "0"? If the imported is way way better than the one made domestically(given no hanky panky to undermine the domestic product is done as in the case of Tejas and Arjun) it should be imported,
but Sadly this is not the scenario and some people make all efforts to sabotage this.

World War 3 in 25 years ? Really optimistic you are. i doubt another world war the weapons of destruction are today so dangerous that no one can risk WW3.

If you wanna call a war on terror WW3 then i hope it starts early....

 

[Flame Thrower]

Today's world is westernised and corrupt. One mustn't take today's world as correct. That is why we call it kali yuga. Don't bother about western concept of development. According to them life is all about pursuit of happiness. Happiness is nothing but hormonal pleasure. Essentially, life is all about being a drug addict according to westerners. Just living as drug addict to end up dead is the most absurd way of living. You don't seem to understand the holistic picture of life.

As i told, indigenous arms cost 0. Only a fool would buy imported goods when the same can be made domestically.

All i can say is that in world war 3 (25 years from now), what i said will happen and because of this absurdity going on

@tharun you are correct, @Vijyes is nothing but a confused kid

 

[Vijyes]

I will only reply specifics so....
Indigenous arms cost "0" , whats your point? In which scenario "0"? If the imported is way way better than the one made domestically(given no hanky panky to undermine the domestic product is done as in the case of Tejas and Arjun) it should be imported,
but Sadly this is not the scenario and some people make all efforts to sabotage this.

World War 3 in 25 years ? Really optimistic you are. i doubt another world war the weapons of destruction are today so dangerous that no one can risk WW3.

If you wanna call a war on terror WW3 then i hope it starts early....

See, I can't give you more detailed reasons. All I can say is that 300 crore+ people will be killed and it will be the legendary kalki war.

Quran: kill pagans for blasphemy. This world is fake. Do jihad for heaven.

islam asks to kill others so that on judgement day, muhammad can come back, kill them all (muslims) and send them to heaven. Not every]one is afraid to die. Only hindus are cowards

By the way, if there is going to be no war according to you, why do you suggest to buy expensive imported arms? Isn't it better to simply invest in Indian technology and wait till it materialises adjusting in the meantime with missile