Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Kunal Biswas]

The last para of my post #1297 related to espionage and spying, Its hard to take action and tap on them besides them being corrupted ..

Define as : intentionally become involved in a difficult situation in order to improve it or prevent it from getting worse

In case of lobbying/meddling/bribing for arms purchase,it's not intervention.That happens in many Western countries also.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Mirage 2000 is the 70's fighter.
Rafale dev ended in the last 90's. First serial Rafale (with only AtoA capacity) was delivered in 1999.

And the point is?

Like to add and repeat. Tejas is close to Mirage 2000H in range vs payload while beats it in rest of aspects of fighter jet technologies. When MK-2 comes even range vs payload will switch sides to Tejas camp.

other is only an aeroclub plane.

Derogatory words won't change what Tejas pilots and ex Mirage 2000H pilots says about it.

 

[Rahul Singh]

This is like HAL Marut repeating all over again, and its scary.

If this deal is being signed with specific aim of developing ecosystem further along with speeding up development of MK-2 versions of both Tejas and NLCA then it's ok. But if it is not the case; just another many, a purchase amidst cry for immediate requirements then what you are saying will definitely come true. Jaguar killing Marut.

 

[sarika sani]

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[tejas warrior]

Glimpses of Indian Air Force Aircraft practicing for #RDparade2017 flypast at New Delhi.

 

[Saichand K]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/P...0-MKI-and-Mi-35-Gunships-on-fast-track-250028
Now we don'r make ammunition for Su-30MKI and Mi-35 cannons in India ???? What :bs:??

 

[sbm]

More likely a top up. For Mi-35 it wasn't worth it. Too few

 

[ezsasa]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/P...0-MKI-and-Mi-35-Gunships-on-fast-track-250028
Now we don'r make ammunition for Su-30MKI and Mi-35 cannons in India ???? What :bs:??

IMHO.

Not necessarily a correct assessment.

It could also be that the book order of OFB is full for other ammo, hence the specialist ammo is being procured from outside.

I am assuming the production areas in our OFB is fixed, they set up the machines based on the order. Like for example: if they are already manufacturing for 5.56 Rounds, specialist ammo cannot be done at the same production line.

Or.

It is built into procurement contacts of SU30 and MI-35 that certain value of ammo needs to be procured along with the equipment.

 

[flying.modi]

All about sudarshan laser guided bomb.

 

[Chinmoy]

IMHO.

Not necessarily a correct assessment.

It could also be that the book order of OFB is full for other ammo, hence the specialist ammo is being procured from outside.

I am assuming the production areas in our OFB is fixed, they set up the machines based on the order. Like for example: if they are already manufacturing for 5.56 Rounds, specialist ammo cannot be done at the same production line.

Or.

It is built into procurement contacts of SU30 and MI-35 that certain value of ammo needs to be procured along with the equipment.

This is a total BS and propaganda article first published in Huff Post I believe. I replied on that too, but my view was not featured in the reply section rison:.
They are just feeding the feverish citizens and trying to create a ruckus, which they are good at. As far as procuring anti tank missiles are concerned, only that part is believable. Other like this aircraft ammo or GsH ammo is plain bullshit.

 

[sakshi kate]

Indian Air Force is one of the primary Indian Armed Force .IAF career based on various branches and various educational qualifications.The various career opportunities available with Indian Air Force include both technical and non technical branches.Get List of Career Option for Indian Air Force.further more detail information for IIndian Air Force to visit here http://surerecruitment.in/category/defence-jobs/

 

[rudresh]

the 36 Rafale deal has already been inked (late 2016) and first payment made.

Offsets have to be implemented asap now if Dassualt wants to get a mega order.

I don't know how the people think of mega order for rafale ....with a fifth gen plane price.

If they want a real mega order they should integrate it with kaveri engine with lot of Indian tech and some 5th gen features along with missiles like mini bramhos. It is juggad.

It is better and far more effective to do same with AMCA and incorporate French tech to that.

 

[Scrutator]

No no even if all mk1A comes with GE 414i also there will be no trouble for kaveri but tejas may have to be redesigned for kaveri.... It takes 2-3 engines in a planes lifetime if time is not a restraint then kaveri will be integrated into Tejas.

Not quite! The 2-3 engine requirement for an aircraft is for Russian engines that are normally built for about 2000 hours lifetime (and several conk out much before that). The GE engines (and most western engines) are certified for 6000+ hours, as such they last for much of the lifetime of the air frame. So, Tejas won't really require 3 engines if GE engines were installed on it. Kaveri is definitely trying to achieve that kind of a lifetime!

Second thing is If the plane has to be exported kaveri is a must.

Depends on the recipient country. US will mostly be agreeable of India exporting to most of its target countries. But yes, US will have a say on the export (and much of the decision could turn out to be political)

Third is the engine will be 40% cost of plane so cheaper kaveri will make it shine in India,indigenization and export.

Not sure how you computed the 40% cost. Perhaps with a bare bones airframe the engine might be a significant percentage of the cost. But given that most of the modern aircrafts come with advanced avionics packages - each of which having a significant cost component (in millons e.g. the radar alone costs around $3+ million) the percentage of cost for engine is much lesser than 40%.

Consider that GE engines for Tejas cost in about $4-$6million; but the total cost of Tejas Mk1A will be upwards of $40 million per aircraft (perhaps you factored 3 engines will be needed over the lifetime? But then the lifetime cost of each Tejas aircraft will be around $90 million anyways)!!!

 

[kunal1123]

MKI/AL-31FP stats don't translate directly to the GE engines. See my post from earlier.

here what i know so far :
1. the initial MiG-29 by comparison has the engines replaced with new ones after 500 hours. which later improved to 750 with overhaul around 500.(they were that poor)which i think future improved in mih 35.
2 the initial GE F110 was removed approximately every 800-900 hours that around 2005, which i think have improved to1500 hour
ge414 have life of around 2000 hour with 2-3 overhaul (which they want to improve 20-25% in epe with increased thrust), u see the f/a-18 lifespans is around 6000, which they are increasing to 8000. and mostly f/a 18 get both engine replaced 3 time in their lifespan .
the max life span that i have heard of is m88-4e which is suppose to have 4000 hour....

have any other sources do share....

 

[Scrutator]

here what i know so far :
1. the initial MiG-29 by comparison has the engines replaced with new ones after 500 hours. which later improved to 750 with overhaul around 500.(they were that poor)which i think future improved in mih 35.
2 the initial GE F110 was removed approximately every 800-900 hours that around 2005, which i think have improved to1500 hour
ge414 have life of around 2000 hour with 2-3 overhaul (which they want to improve 20-25% in epe with increased thrust), u see the f/a-18 lifespans is around 6000, which they are increasing to 8000. and mostly f/a 18 get both engine replaced 3 time in their lifespan .
the max life span that i have heard of is m88-4e which is suppose to have 4000 hour....

have any other sources do share....

Not surprised with the hours on the Russian engines - they've routinely performed lower than their stated lifespans.
The life span you quoted for GE414 was that of the very initial version that was fitted onto F18s. GE has been continuously upgrading its components and as such arrived at engines with 6000 hours lifespan. In fact the newer replacements on the F18s are already of longer lifespans. Rest assured the GE414-INS6 is of longer lifespan.

 

[BON PLAN]

the 36 Rafale deal has already been inked (late 2016) and first payment made.

Offsets have to be implemented asap now if Dassualt wants to get a mega order.

Yes, I know for the deal. But it has been inked in september. I doubt SAFRAN worked on Kaveri before september 2016. So the planning seems very optimistic.

 

[lcafanboy]

Is it just me or does this charade of Safran helping the Kaveri project the biggest scam....

Maybe somebody more enlightened than I am can help me understand. Apparently, they would 'invest' about a $1 Billion to revive Kaveri project!!! The 'offset' requirement is for the foreign company to procure goods worth the offset amount from local companies OR invest that amount in local companies. Now does Safran's 'investment' of a $1 billion into Kaveri mean they own (part of) Kaveri project (are they really spending that much amount)? Or are they claiming that whatever 'consultancy' they'll provide is worth $1 billion??? or that whatever help they'll offer will generate sales of Kaveri engines worth $1 billion.

If they do help in creating 90 KN Kaveri (which will not be used for any of the Tejas aircrafts), and they do help in creating a 100+ KN (that's again if not in time for Mk2) and perhaps (deliberately) delay the creation of 115+ Kaveri (that if we assume doesn't go into AMCA) then have they technically still fulfilled a $1 billion in offset??

India needs more than 6000 jet engines over 20 years. Now calculate the Forex required for that (maybe $25-30 billion or more). That is the amount which India will be saving over the years and this amount aalone which is being saved is enough to fund Rafale deal so RAfales are practically free for India.

The technology thus transferred will also be used in HAL's HTFE-25 Jet Engine to improve its thrust to 35Kn dry from 25kn at present and with afterburner to 53-57kn. So it's huge.

The money thus earned by France Dassault and Safran will enable them to fund Rafale-NG development, which if not materialized (ie if India doesn't buy) wil be difficult to come by an will lead to France losing strategic sovereignty to US as then it will have to buy American fighters in future (look at Britain, Germany both were making fighters now dependent on American junk).

 

[lcafanboy]

I can neither disagree nor agree with that - I really don't know what the deal actually is

Wow! You pulled a quick one there!
Firstly 6000 turbofan jet engines in just 20 years is highly suspect (perhaps you're including all the UAVs). Secondly not all of them will directly be impacted by what Safran will purportedly do for Kaveri e.g. around 300 Su30MKIs (which require the maximum change in engines), Mig29s, the Jaguars, Mirages, Rafales, FGFA will not even be closely impacted by what Safran will or will not do for Kaveri. Remember that AURAs can also lumber along with Kaveris that we can achieve (because it'll be twin engined and adequately powered)!

Only aircraft that they can probably impact are a few hundred AMCAs in the next 20 years!! For which GTRE actually has several more years to perfect the hot section (the rate at which progress is being made - it's a possibility!!!). French aren't really dumb to undercut their own market and business. $1 billion for few hundred AMCA engines (say 200 aircrafts requirng 400 engines) would actually mean $2.5 million per engine in 'consultancy fees' (or kinda of upfront license fees) for an engine that should in the normal course cost around $5-$6 million.
What gives??

Honestly, I don't know the actual deal so I cannot make precise predictions. But I do know to smell BS when someone throws large numbers.

Calculate the number of fighters required for IAF 45sqdns and IN 15-20sqdns for its carrier and coastal protection, now add future Indian Army air corp's 6-10 sqdns need (yes Indian army needs separate air power for SEAD and CAS an have been vocal about it) plus export of LCA & AMCA. UAVs like GHATAK, AURA and several others will also need these engines, here improved HAL HTFE 35 will come. AMCA alone could cross 600 numbers in IAF and IN alone, with each AMCA requiring 2 engines and 2 for replacement. TEJAS MK1A & MK2 would also need these so will MK1 which are now being assembled for MLU plus add export of engines.

Now calculate replacement engines for these and you will get the figure which I quoted.

 

[kunal1123]

when f414 was ordered it is around 690 mili. for 99 that come around 6.96 per engine. now let consider that last 50 mk1a +150lca mk2 + 250 amca +80 Namca used the kaveri and with only 3 time engine replacement the total value is around 20 billion usd(does not consider inflation) + add to that any export order.

 

[Shadow]

Air launched Bhramos
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