Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Sancho]

Tell me this: Did you even open the link I gave you?

Yes I did, but since you haven't stated anything to it, I don't know what you are refering to.

The ONLY ARGUMENT YOU HAVE EVER GIVEN is: "THE AIR FORCE ASKED FOR 90+ MMRCA, SO NO MATTER WHAT, WE NEED THEM."

Because that's a fact that results from the cancellation of the MMRCA tender. That and with the statements of Air Chief Raha, we know what the required numbers and the capability are. So that is the base to start from, to see what fighters fit to the requirements and how. But instead of understanding that, you only search for excuses against the whole requirement.

^^^That is all that you have ever said in your replies.

Really? I also explaind you the capability difference between light and medium class fighters (which you even agree to), why the benchmark of new fighters can't be older gen fighters that gets replaced, why it's crucial to have air launched cruise missiles to extend attacks to longer ranges than from the ground, why maritime attack plays a role for IAF in the MMRCA tenders as well as fighter upgrades, or why the squadron number is not only based on the squads we replace, but also on how many bases we raise.

So I have tried several things to make you understand, but to put it in your words, you want to be a contrarian.

I never said that FOC for Tejas is not important for Mk1A and Mk2. Why did you write something that was not even a point I made,

To make you understand, what the real threat for Tejas is, which is not a foreign fighter, but it's own development and capability issues.

If FGFA fails to take off, we will need SE MMRCA to fill some squadrons.

Again an example where you mix up completely unrelated things. We need stealth fighters to have a counter to enemy AWACS capability, to do preemptive strikes, or to counter numerical advantages of 4th gen fighters. That's where stealth gives major advantages in terms of capability and tactics, that no 4.5th gen fighter can give in the same manner. So if FGFA fails, only another stealth fighter can fill the requirement and it's not about filling squadron numbers.

 

[Pandeyji]

Bhai @Sancho know one thing. This SEF wouldn't be here in this janam. No matter how many attempts LM & Saab make.

 

[Sancho]

Bhai @Sancho know one thing. This SEF wouldn't be here in this janam. No matter how many attempts LM & Saab make.

Saab and LM are not the issue, but Dassault blocking the MMRCA tender and the PM making a bad deal. That's the only reason the SE MMRCA came up now and why IAF is forced to look for an alternative again.

 

[Pandeyji]

Saab and LM are not the issue, but Dassault blocking the MMRCA tender and the PM making a bad deal. That's the only reason the SE MMRCA came up now and why IAF is forced to look for an alternative again.

Care to explain what's bad in the deal? And please say something of substance.

Edit:- IAF isn't looking for anything. SEF came up b/c LM wants to continue it's profit & nothing else.

 

[Flame Thrower]

Saab and LM are not the issue, but Dassault blocking the MMRCA tender and the PM making a bad deal. That's the only reason the SE MMRCA came up now and why IAF is forced to look for an alternative again.

SE MMRCA is being heard since 2016. Neither IAF nor GOI did give any official statement about it.

All we know is some unnamed official is unhappy with Tejas capabilities. While there many named source claimed how good it is.

As long as no official info comes out, don't dream.

If IAF was forced to look for alternatives as you claimed, would you care to explain why there is no tender!!??

 

[darshan978]

Saab and LM are not the issue, but Dassault blocking the MMRCA tender and the PM making a bad deal. That's the only reason the SE MMRCA came up now and why IAF is forced to look for an alternative again.

90 SEF FIGHTER WONT BE GOOD DEAL EITHER EACH SEF FIGHTER WOULD COST $150 MIL. AVERAGE SO COST WOULD BE AROUND $10 TO $15 BILL. WHICH INDIA CANT AFFORD!!!!

 

[LETHALFORCE]

When did TOT ever stop chinese from copying stuff

Has any Chinese copy ever come close to the original?

 

[Filtercoffee]

More engines require more fuel and maintenance, also Russian engines have a lower service life compared to western counterparts , therfore need more replacements. Add that to the know spare supply and maintainability issues of the Migs/Russian fighters and you know why Malaysia for example want to replace their Mig 29s way before the end of their service life, to not be burdened with the issues.

Single engine MMRCAs have overall operational costs between 6 to 9000 US per flight hour, twin engine once between 10 and 30000 USD (depending on the calculation method of the force/country).

Here are some costs for US fighters:

https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2016/08/20160815_Fighters.jpg

Also from the Brazilian MMRCA competition we know, that FAB has calculated thefollowing costs during the trials and evaluations:

Translated

http://istoe.com.br/259643_A+ESCOLHA+DA+FAB/

Wrt the procurement cost difference, Air Chief Dhanoa also stated last year:

http://www.indiastrategic.in/2017/1...e-engine-combat-aircraft-within-october-2017/

Keep in mind, that the MMRCA tenders had a focus on lifecycle costs already, which was a change from older procurement policies, that only focused on low procurement costs. Now that we couldn't got enough Rafales and with a government that limits defence spending, even more focus is put on procure and operational costs.



True and that's why I would like to see the Mig 29Ks diverted to IAF. They are already in India and can be directly integrated into IAFs operations. However for the same benefit IAF prefered the Mirage 2000 initially and in any later tender, the disadvantages of the Mig outweighed the faster induction point.



That's not correct, we can only modify what Russia allows us to modify and except for Indian or Israeli (bombs), no foreign weapon is used on the Russian fighters. Not to mention that the Mig old airframe design sets limitations as well. It was designed for A2A combats and carrying AAMs, not heavy A2G weapons, or a targeting pod (although that issue might be fixed now, judging by the recent pics of Egyptian Mig 29s), that's why Russia initially offered an Mig 35 in MMRCA with 5 x hardpoints at each wing, but that was never developed and the Mig 35 now, remains with 4 like the 29K.

My argument here is that the airframe used by the Air force and its modification and upgrades, there are a lot of times that these things are done and not published or acknowledged. So in point I could assume. So you see the current fleet can be added to and in great numbers, pefectly assembled for duty. Could I also assume that we can print our own currency to our exact number? If yes and with man power, the flying cost and maitainance should'nt be a problem. Now about the airframe and flying it- its much better then a 'forced upon' with a toping of a long history of war victories - Mig 21. The MIG 21 when added was not a fighter which was part of the NATO fleet so flying characteristics and pressured area timed flight arangements were not available. Time can give any object to 'fit' - your point on Isreali weapons etc.

 

[Shobhan Padhi]

Watch this video about future stealth aircrafts.. 3 of them are related to India..

 

[Sancho]

SE MMRCA is being heard since 2016. Neither IAF nor GOI did give any official statement about it.

Lol, where you offline last year to not get any news?

In May 2017 the part time DM Arun Jaitley approved the strategic partnership model, as part of NDAs DPP 2016, which includes an own section for the SE tender!
Air Chief Dhanoa held a press conference and publicly stated that for IAF, the SE tender has priority, to make up the numbers in the medium class requirement.
All that is left to start the tender, is final go ahead in Form of the RFI and only the government is stalling that.

Hilarious level of denial :biggrin2:

 

[Flame Thrower]

Lol, where you offline last year to not get any news?

In May 2017 the part time DM Arun Jaitley approved the strategic partnership model, as part of NDAs DPP 2016, which includes an own section for the SE tender!
Air Chief Dhanoa held a press conference and publicly stated that for IAF, the SE tender has priority, to make up the numbers in the medium class requirement.
All that is left to start the tender, is final go ahead in Form of the RFI and only the government is stalling that.

Hilarious level of denial :biggrin2:

Share the link about SE RFI.......

 

[Sancho]

Share the link about SE RFI.......

Let me quote myself:

All that is left to start the tender, is final go ahead in Form of the RFI and only the government is stalling that.

So again:

- single engine fighters are more cost effective than twin engine once
- the NDA government made the tender official last year, when the SPM was approved
- the IAF made it their priority
- the NDA government remains indecisive, to follow up on their own procurement plans and marketing slogans

 

[Flame Thrower]

Let me quote myself:

All that is left to start the tender, is final go ahead in Form of the RFI and only the government is stalling that.

That final RFI hadn't come yet. I doubt it will come anytime soon.

Here is my opinion.

Opposition is raising stupid questions on Rafale, until that's cleared GOI will not go for tenders. There goes 2018 and first half of 2019. Now, the next govt would be busy with sorting things. If at all the upcoming GOI is interested, then the RFI may come in 2020, else LCA MK1A would suffice. Would you care to disagree this!!??

PS: I totally missed out one of your statements.

If GOI is stalling the RFI for SE, then it means that GOI(Modi Govt) is not interested. Until & Unless Congress comes back to power, SE tender is not gonna happen. So chill out on SE topic and focus your energy on something else.

 

[Sancho]

That final RFI hadn't come yet. I doubt it will come anytime soon.

Here is my opinion...

How can you have an opinion, when you don't even know that the government made the tender official and that the IAF prioritises it? Please do at least some basic google searches, to understand the tender, or the requirement of IAF, before you get into baseless conclusions.

 

[Sancho]

Right in time for IAF?

More at:
https://www.defensenews.com/news/yo...ime/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

And in Russia:
https://t.co/lxs3V2bOsq

Sieh dir den Tweet von @BoeingDefense an:
The same config with 3 drogues would be the fielded for IAFs competition.

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @IAF_MCC an:

 

[Sancho]

IN vs PLAN in the IOR, while IAF is preparing to counter PLAAF at the northern borders:

https://m.timesofindia.com/world/ch...indian-border-report/articleshow/62998928.cms

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/deh...ong-message-to-china/articleshow/63003197.cms

 

[Pandeyji]

How can you have an opinion, when you don't even know that the government made the tender official and that the IAF prioritises it? Please do at least some basic google searches, to understand the tender, or the requirement of IAF, before you get into baseless conclusions.

Yeah. The Govt & IAF prioritise SEF. Everybody except the govt & IAF say it. Seems more like the plot of a cheap rom-com & less like a multi-billion defence deal.

 

[Vinod DX9]

No old single engine jet contest....new tender to be issued

 

[pankaj nema]

Flying Officer Avani Chaturvedi becomes first Indian woman to fly fighter aircraft solo

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-fighter-aircraft-solo/articleshow/63023231.c