Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Vinod DX9]

1979 marks the beginning of new era of Indian Armed Forces aviation wings. Starting from 1979, entire 80s saw introduction of several combat jets in both Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. These combat jet aircrafts were
Jaguar
Mirage-2000
Sea Harrier
Mig-23
Mig-25
Mig-27 and
Mig-29
This decade was also saw induction new upgraded Mig-21s into IAF and start of LCA program.

Now, 40 years after that, in 2019 also sets mark of beginning of another era in the history of aviation wings of Indian Armed Forces. IAF will get the very first Dassault Rafale in 2019. And now starting with that more jets are expected to enter in the coming decade. The aircrafts from both IAF and IN which are expected
Rafale
Tejas Mk 1A
Tejas Mk 2
N LCA 1A
Gripen/F-16
AMCA
FGFA
Rafale M/F/A-18

Do you think, 20s will be another revolutionary decade for us?

 

[undeadmyrmidon]

View attachment 21783
1979 marks the beginning of new era of Indian Armed Forces aviation wings. Starting from 1979, entire 80s saw introduction of several combat jets in both Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. These combat jet aircrafts were
Jaguar
Mirage-2000
Sea Harrier
Mig-23
Mig-25
Mig-27 and
Mig-29
This decade was also saw induction new upgraded Mig-21s into IAF and start of LCA program.

Now, 40 years after that, in 2019 also sets mark of beginning of another era in the history of aviation wings of Indian Armed Forces. IAF will get the very first Dassault Rafale in 2019. And now starting with that more jets are expected to enter in the coming decade. The aircrafts from both IAF and IN which are expected
Rafale
Tejas Mk 1A
Tejas Mk 2
N LCA 1A
Gripen/F-16
AMCA
FGFA
Rafale M/F/A-18

Do you think, 20s will be another revolutionary decade for us?

If IAF Babu - Dalal nexus dies then we will be self sufficient for most of our needs. Else we will get shafted every time we go to war by dealers. See 1999 Israeli GBUs and South African 155mms inducted.

 

[Kshithij]

View attachment 21783
1979 marks the beginning of new era of Indian Armed Forces aviation wings. Starting from 1979, entire 80s saw introduction of several combat jets in both Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. These combat jet aircrafts were
Jaguar
Mirage-2000
Sea Harrier
Mig-23
Mig-25
Mig-27 and
Mig-29
This decade was also saw induction new upgraded Mig-21s into IAF and start of LCA program.

Now, 40 years after that, in 2019 also sets mark of beginning of another era in the history of aviation wings of Indian Armed Forces. IAF will get the very first Dassault Rafale in 2019. And now starting with that more jets are expected to enter in the coming decade. The aircrafts from both IAF and IN which are expected
Rafale
Tejas Mk 1A
Tejas Mk 2
N LCA 1A
Gripen/F-16
AMCA
FGFA
Rafale M/F/A-18

Do you think, 20s will be another revolutionary decade for us?

Getting imported planes is slavery. Planes are not for show. They are for using in war. In war, one has to manufacture more and also replace damaged equipment.

 

[tharun]

There are few interesting videos about air force in youtube under channel India times called frontline

Sent from my AO5510 using Tapatalk

 

[Babloo Singh]

Last evening an IAF AN-32 made an emergency landing at Ranchi at around 6:00 PM, reportedly aircraft had an engine failure. All 25 on board & the aircraft is safe..

 

[Kay]

View attachment 21783
1979 marks the beginning of new era of Indian Armed Forces aviation wings. Starting from 1979, entire 80s saw introduction of several combat jets in both Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. These combat jet aircrafts were
Jaguar
Mirage-2000
Sea Harrier
Mig-23
Mig-25
Mig-27 and
Mig-29
This decade was also saw induction new upgraded Mig-21s into IAF and start of LCA program.

Now, 40 years after that, in 2019 also sets mark of beginning of another era in the history of aviation wings of Indian Armed Forces. IAF will get the very first Dassault Rafale in 2019. And now starting with that more jets are expected to enter in the coming decade. The aircrafts from both IAF and IN which are expected
Rafale
Tejas Mk 1A
Tejas Mk 2
N LCA 1A
Gripen/F-16
AMCA
FGFA
Rafale M/F/A-18

Do you think, 20s will be another revolutionary decade for us?

1980s was a lost generation since we ditched the Marut. Hope the mistakes are not repeated. None of the above names other than Tejas and AMCA excite me.

 

[Babloo Singh]

In coming times all the CAS role will be taken over by UAV's.. given their long loiter times they are best suited for such roles... in specific cased such as to take out a enemy tank manned aircraft's will be called for...
Some of the aircraft in vicinity carrying out Air Superiority role will carry PGM's & they will do the needful.

 

[Sancho]

In coming times all the CAS role will be taken over by UAV's.. given their long loiter times they are best suited for such roles... in specific cased such as to take out a enemy tank manned aircraft's will be called for...
Some of the aircraft in vicinity carrying out Air Superiority role will carry PGM's & they will do the needful.

You have to differentiate the possible war scenarios though. India doesn't have the luxury, to fight Taliban or IS with minimal surface to air capabilities. We are fighting 2 fully fledged military forces and can't simply send a slow drone, or an armed trainer to attack enemy ground forces, because they would be shot down easily. Kargil has shown, how difficult it is even against ground forces with manpads and no air cover and we suffered losses because of that. So CAS in the Indian scenario always needs to be based on aircrafts with good survivability against ground or air threats, which is why only fighters or stealth drones will have importance.

 

[Babloo Singh]

You have to differentiate the possible war scenarios though. India doesn't have the luxury, to fight Taliban or IS with minimal surface to air capabilities. We are fighting 2 fully fledged military forces and can't simply send a slow drone, or an armed trainer to attack enemy ground forces, because they would be shot down easily. Kargil has shown, how difficult it is even against ground forces with manpads and no air cover and we suffered losses because of that. So CAS in the Indian scenario always needs to be based on aircrafts with good survivability against ground or air threats, which is why only fighters or stealth drones will have importance.

Well I mentioned Air Superiority aircraft's in vicinity... If you don't control Air you can't do CAS... at best you can sneak up few strikes....
On our western front I believe we will dominate Air space.... and will be able to take out most of air defense too..
On Eastern Front it's going to be man to man war... CAS won't be effective there..

 

[Sancho]

That`s the reason we have AURA and Kaveri`s spinoff for that project ..

But this is about the future, lets focus on Tejas present development and news ..

True but it's important to point out the differences in air warfare as well, because it keeps evolving and as explained is not the same for every country.
But it's also important to understand the pros and cons of LCA, because it can do CAS as efficiently as the M2K today, but at the same time is limited by design to not be able to carry more AAMs to defend itself. For IAF that means, they would need the same number of LCAs today, to do the same mission as the M2Ks back in Kargil, while with MMRCAs, they could do it with half the numbers, be more efficient with lower sortie rates.

 

[Sancho]

Well I mentioned Air Superiority aircraft's in vicinity... If you don't control Air you can't do CAS... at best you can sneak up few strikes....
On our western front I believe we will dominate Air space.... and will be able to take out most of air defense too..
On Eastern Front it's going to be man to man war... CAS won't be effective there..

That's the problem that I pointed to, we don't have air superiority anymore, especially not in a full fledged war. NATO wars are fought with technological and numerical superiority against low capable enemies. We fight 2 nuclear powers, with state of the art Air Forces and surface to air defences. So we have to do CAS in contested air space, which rules out drones, or low end aircrafts and why the whole IAF fleet needs to beef up it's survivability. Dropping bombs is not that difficult today, surviving an interdiction mission is a different issue.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Even if its MKI for such work, their is always another group of fighters giving air-superiority, during kargil MIG-29 were tasked with air-superiority while MIG-27, MIR-2000 and MIG-21 conducted CAS and other tasks, This is pre WW2 tactic ..

The AAM provided is sufficient for the given task as per its role in the combat area, Let it be Tejas or Mir or for MIGs & Su-30mki ..

==========

Their are other threads where various discussion can be opened and studies, Tejas or MKI or for any specific topic related threads are exclusively for news and development purpose, Anything else regardless how less related to off-topic can derail the thread by third or forth member ..

but at the same time is limited by design to not be able to carry more AAMs to defend itself. For IAF that means, they would need the same number of LCAs today, to do the same mission as the M2Ks back in Kargil, while with MMRCAs, they could do it with half the numbers, be more efficient with lower sortie rates.

 

[Sancho]

Even if its MKI for such work, their is always another group of fighters giving air-superiority, during kargil MIG-29 were tasked with air-superiority while MIG-27, MIR-2000 and MIG-21 conducted CAS and other tasks, This is pre WW2 tactic ..

Exactly, but you wouldn't need dedicated escort fighters anymore, because medium class fighters have enough self defence capabily on their own now.


LCA in CAS config
- LDP
- 2 x fuel tanks
- 2 x 500lb LGBs
- 1 x SPJ
- 1 x WVR missile

+

LCA in A2A config for thw escorts role
- 2 x fuel tanks
- 2 x BVR missiles
- 1 x SPJ
- 1 x WVR missile

Compare that with a Mirage 2000-5

- 1 x LDP
- 2 x fuel tanks
- 2 x 500lb LGBs
- 2 x MICA EM
- 1 x SPJ
- 2 x MICA IR

As you can see, even the upgraded Mirage, will have more survivability, because it adds more AAMs to a standard strike config. That's cuts the required fighters for that mission in half, while air superiority fighters will remain in the area, in their dedicated role as you said.

Air warfare is evolving to fully integrated EW defence, self escorts / swing role capability and tactics to attack at stand off ranges, to stay out of enemies reach. And that's only for 4th to 4.5th gen fighters. The involvement of 5th gen fighters, is currently turnin air warfare upside down, because it uses the stand off capabilities of 4.5th gen fighters and combines it with stealth and sensor advantages of 5th gen fighters, which again is aimed at maximum survivability.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You will always need and its bound to be there as its a procedure, I cannot comment on the load configuration as its something depends on the situation, A suitable example of such is yet to be observed in Indian context ..

 

[lcafanboy]

IAF aircraft avoids massive scare, lands safely despite electronic failure
Updated: Dec 08, 2017 | 23:04 IST | IANS

A MiG-21 fighter plane of the Indian Air Force made an emergency landing at the Jaipur airport | Photo Credit: BCCL


Jaipur: A MiG-21 fighter plane of the Indian Air Force made an emergency landing at the airport here on Friday, officials said, adding this affected normal operations for some time.

Read: IndiGo flight survives massive mid-air scare, lives of 170 passengers risked

Many flights were kept on hold for half an hour till the time the fighter plane was shifted from the runway to a hangar.



According to information, the fighter plane met with electronic failure soon after it took off from its base, and the pilot contacted the ATC at the Jaipur airport to request an emergency landing.

Though the MiG-21 landed safely, the runway got blocked and four flights of Air India and SpiceJet were delayed. Airport officials said the IAF engineers will check the technical fault in the fighter.

http://www.timesnownews.com/india/a...nds-safely-despite-electronic-failure /142786

Thank God Pilot is safe and so is Mig 21. We need both, as both are in shortage...............

 

[Kshithij]

True but it's important to point out the differences in air warfare as well, because it keeps evolving and as explained is not the same for every country.
But it's also important to understand the pros and cons of LCA, because it can do CAS as efficiently as the M2K today, but at the same time is limited by design to not be able to carry more AAMs to defend itself. For IAF that means, they would need the same number of LCAs today, to do the same mission as the M2Ks back in Kargil, while with MMRCAs, they could do it with half the numbers, be more efficient with lower sortie rates.

Simply exclude Tejas MK1 as a mistake and only consider Tejas MK2. So, your 1xSPJ stuff can be avoided.

MMRCA can do the job of 1.5 Tejas. But it has more than 3 times the cost. So, it becomes 50% as efficient.

Sortie rates are less important than attrition rate. War is defined by losses. When you consider attrition, you will understand that Tejas MK2 is much better than MMRCA. Tejas can be replaced at much lower cost and there is no higher risk of getting shot down compared to MMRCA. Tejas is pretty stealthy and probably has lesser chance of getting shot down than a lesser stealth MMRCA.

Until you address these, your arguments stand moot-
1) attrition and replacement cost
2) Tejas MK2 is the right plane to be compared, not Tejas MK1A
3) cost of Tejas being significantly lower than MMRCA and the trade off between sortie rate and cost.

 

[Sancho]

MMRCA can do the job of 1.5 Tejas. But it has more than 3 times the cost. So, it becomes 50% as efficient.

Wrong, as explain you need at least 2 x LCAs to equal 1 MMRCA wrt to load or mission requirements and as you said yourself, MK1 is not comparable on a technical basis, therefore you would need the flyaway cost of at least MK1A to compare it to the 60 to 80 millions of SE MMRCAs, or around 100 million dollars of Rafale and EF. So without proper costs for MK1A, you are only assuming cost-effectiveness.

 

[Kshithij]

Wrong, as explain you need at least 2 x LCAs to equal 1 MMRCA wrt to load or mission requirements and as you said yourself, MK1 is not comparable on a technical basis, therefore you would need the flyaway cost of at least MK1A to compare it to the 60 to 80 millions of SE MMRCAs, or around 100 million dollars of Rafale and EF. So without proper costs for MK1A, you are only assuming cost-effectiveness.

Firstly, cost of forex is different from domestic cost. Secondly, no matter what Tejas will be cheaper than import. Most importantly, attrition cost matters much more where light aircrafts trump

 

[Sancho]

Firstly, cost of forex is different from domestic cost. Secondly, no matter what Tejas will be cheaper than import. Most importantly, attrition cost matters much more where light aircrafts trump

That's why only the flyaway cost makes them comparable and of course Tejas will be cheaper per unit, but then again you have to take that figure x 2 or x 3 times, to equal an MMRCA in a comparison. Same goes for operational cost and so on, which makes it not cost-effective anymore. That's why the twin type hi / love fleet mix, is more cost-effective and operationally efficient, than the 4 type of hi / love mix IAF will have to deal with and that's not including future stealth fighters.

 

[mayfair]

Parrikar's statement on Rafale dispels a few myths and bollocks but also reveals something of a major concern

Parrikar said, “Between 1999 and 2014, until Narendra Modi came, Pakistan, through various purchases, had acquired a capacity of 100 km range, whereas we had upgraded our BVR (Beyond Visual Range missile) only 60 km on Su 30. So we were now in danger of being shot down by Pakistani fighters from 100 km away, and not being able to retaliate. That is also part of the (Rafale) purchase.”

Bugger me! Napakis were stocking up on AMRAAM C-5s gifted by the Yankee bastards and we were twiddling our thumbs??

Do the MFs in UPA and MoD have no effing shame or dignity???

I only shudder to think how much damage was caused by the likes of Antony in the Def Min...