Indian Air Force (IAF) forced to fly MiG 21s till 2017 due to Tejas delay

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Someoneforyou, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. Someoneforyou

    Someoneforyou Regular Member

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    IAF forced to fly MiG 21s till 2017 due to Tejas delay
    India - 3 August 2011

    NEW DELHI: The MiG-21 fighter jet, which has provided stellar service to the country, has been dubbed the flying coffin due to its high crash rate.

    The figures are simply chilling. Of the 793 MiG-21 s inducted into IAF since 1963, well over 350 have been lost in accidents, killing about 170 pilots . The horrific crash rate of earlier decades has been controlled to a large extent but IAF will be forced to fly the upgraded MiG-21 "Bisons'' till 2017 because of the huge delay in the development of the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA), which is over 27 years in the making.

    Most accidents of the single-engine MiG-21 s, which are of the 1960s design vintage without modern systems like FADEC (full authority digital electronic controls) and mission computers, occur during take-off and landing. "A MiG-21 's rate of descent is around 8 metres per second-... the touch-down speed is phenomenal," said an officer.

    Then, there is inadequate transitional training, shoddy quality control on supply of spares, poor servicing and maintenance, all of which add up to ensure flying the highly-demanding MiG-21 s remains a risky proposition.

    Though IAF has been progressively "number-plating' ' older MiG-21 variants, it has had to go very slow because of the inordinate delay in Tejas, the first squadron of which is now slated to become fully operational only by 2013or so.

    The around 110 MiG-21 "Bisons" in IAF combat fleet, which were earlier upgraded with new avionics, improved gearboxes and cockpits, and the capability to fire some BVR (beyond-visual range) missiles, will remain in operation till 2017.

    This is the second crash of a MiG-21 this year. A MiG-21 'Bison' had crashed in Madhya Pradesh's Sheopur district after an engine problem in February, but the pilot had then managed to eject safely.

    IAF has recorded 25 fighter crashes in the last three years, killing five pilots and as many civilians. Of them, over a dozen were MiG-21 s.

    After a major dip in the crash rate between 2003 and 2006, the armed forces are once again grappling with a high crash rate. In just the last three years, for instance, there have been over 65 crashes of fighters, transport aircraft and helicopters. Almost 60 military personnel, apart from several civilians, have been killed in these crashes.



    Source: Economic Times
     
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  3. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    Yeah - Life is cheap in India, technology is expensive. It takes us decades to develop and build something because our government organizations have little money and skills - and our young pilots pay the price. It's a shame that the GoI never took it seriously to replace old/ obsolete aircraft ASAP.
     
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  4. binayak95

    binayak95 Regular Member

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    Yeah just two days ago a young pilot died because of a MiG 21 crash, despite ejecting. Real shame for this to happen.
     
  5. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    this is not a phenomenon limited to forces it happens all over india and with us. when the things begin to trouble us we prefer it to make some jugaad and use it till the date it actually takes away much more of our material and time.
    mig-21 were junked by russians back in 1990s. using it till now is just shows that planners in mod and forces are not the planners but simply armchair jugaad mechanics.
    tejas coming when world moves on to 5th gen will be of limited use and moreover the upgraded planes like mirage and mig-29 will be just liabilities.
    yes horse was once the best way to travel on earth but not now, similarly migs, mirage were good one day but not now or in near future.

    if there is any will among forces to use tejas then it should be made at least equivalent to Sukhois like powerful engines, more payload and higer agility with reduced rcs or else they will come into being in 2017 and get retired by 2027 like marut.
    moreover it will be followed by the brief by the defense minister and finance minister and CAG that india wastes a lot of money on indigenous stuff and from now onwards we will only import.
     
  6. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    No - Tejas is an LCA - "Light" being the operative word. India should set up a mass production facility for the Tejas. Produce 50 Tejas a year and make 300-400 of them by 2020.
     
  7. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    The problem is the manufacturing rate of aircraft..

    LCA deign is worthy and can be backbone of IAF with upgrades for next 30 years..
     
  8. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    The LCA Mark-2 will have a longer fuselage and bigger ducts, so the aircraft will be the same size as the Gripen NG.

    The longer fuselage means they have room for adding canards along with the compound canard. However the flow to the ducts may be hampered with Canards as it has to line with the ducts, thats the design problem with Tejas.
     
  9. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    LCA doesn't need canard. LCA's leading edge is at such sweep and angle that it generates lift but also increases drag, initially it was thought to be an asset but because of reduced TWR became an curse. But solution is simple and after LCA Navy quite doable. Add a control surface like LEVCON (like one in LCA Navy) and you will be able to control lift/drag which in turn will help improve pitch up-down performance (better the AoA, STR and RoC) as well as cruise and if i am not wrong this is all what Canard helps in (more or less).
     
  10. sant

    sant Regular Member

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    Mirage 2000 has less power full engine. Still its performance is better than LCA.
     
  11. pack leader

    pack leader Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Mirage 2000 has two engines
    lca has only one
    :frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty:
     
  12. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    No, the Mirage 2000 is single-engine.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  13. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    M2000 has a single Engine...
     
  14. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mirage M-53 is rated at 95 KN wet, LCA with F-404-GE-IN20 is at 85 KN wet, compare yourself.

    No, Mirage 2000 is a single engine jet, it is Mirage 4000 which has two engines.
     
  15. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    It means more pilots will die till 2017 .We are already short of 400 pilots. Soon we have to close Indian Airforce department
     
  16. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Don't blame LCA alone for death. Yes LCA is delayed but it is not the sole reason for crashes and death. Mig-21 has very poor servicing record and you can blame OEMs for that. Besides, it not only Mig-21 alone that is crashing. In past sometime almost every type had crashes be it Mig-27, Mig-29, even SU-30MKI and how can i forget Jaguar one that records second after Mig-21 in number of crashes. LCA is not there to replace all said types. IMO problem is fundamental and that is poor servicing and human error. Human errors can be minimized by better training but problems regarding spare parts can't be solved until and unless India becomes self reliant and for that you will have to support programs like LCA aggressively. Order 40 more LCA MK-1 ask HAL to expedite the production, induct LCA MK-1 at a squadron a year - decommission a Mig-21 squadron a year, use LCA Mk-1s till 2020 in active combat service then decommission half(40) and cannibalise them for spares, use first 20 of rest for tactical training at TACDE and likes and convert rest 20 into drones for missile testing. Human(Pilot) life worth much more than money and desperate time requires desperate measures.
     
  17. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    I agree but we dont have trainers also ,Not good spares , LCA not in picture, mirage 2000 upgrade by 2020, Jaguar crashing, Mig 27 phased out. We should close Indian Airforce wing from Indian armed forces
     
  18. warriorextreme

    warriorextreme Senior Member Senior Member

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    is it possible to buy second hand planes from some other countries like USA or greece?
    we have already lost many of our brave pilots with these unfortunate crashes..
     
  19. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    No one is "blaming" LCA. People are blaming the successive short-sighted governments in India and the blind Babus in the administration. If MoD had supported the LCA program enough from 1995 (when Mig-21 crashes peaked), HAL could have got the FOC done by 2006-2007 and developed a large enough production facility by 2008 to make ~50 LCA a year. Which means by now, IAF would have got >100 LCA Tejas in service replacing most of the Mig-21s.

    LCA can also replace Jaguars, Mig-27s (and maybe Mirages) - remember that was the whole point of developing a tail-less delta fighter. In addition to an interceptor (Mig-21), the delta design is really good for a strike fighter (Mig-27). And with the small RCS, LCA can also do deep strike missions like the Jaguars. With advanced avionics and armament, it can even do the air-support role of the Mirages.
    So, the message to IAF/ MoD should be - "get the LCA into service ASAP and replace all the different obsolete aircraft - AND STOP WASTING MONEY ON UPGRADING OBSOLETE AIRCRAFT" ....
     
  20. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes MK-1 can replace all these types except Mirage 2000 but this is what common people like us and many defense experts think not import manic IAF. So they are investing billions and waiting decades yet they say these upgrades are meant to address capability compromise due to dwindling squadron. How can someone forget how IAF declined HAL's proposal to develop HTT-35 to replace HPT-32 back in 1985 and now they are having entire fleet of ab-initio trainers grounded, rookies starting training right from jet and we are again forced to waste foreign currency on even basic trainers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  21. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    To put things in perspective a single Su-30MKI can deliver more ordinances and more accurately than an entire squadron of Mig-21s.
     

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