Indian Air Force admits can’t fight China, Pak at the same time

salute

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Sea blockade is very difficult. I would not bank on it.

POK-China route is easier to cut.

Indian armchair Generals have a tendency to be over-optimistic.

Pakistan also has land routes to the West. Remember the way some Indians are hell bent on pissing off Russia, I would not be surprised if Pakistan gets supplies via central Asia.
if navy got top of the line ships and plenty of numbers,this task could be done,

if others are talking like fake generals then you are talking like fake analyst,

if indian navy and indian military acts like a p***y few hundreds miles of indian shores then forget about being a superpower no one gonna even call you a regional power,
are those powerful ships and aircraft carriers are for decoration,
then sri lanka and bangladesh navy along with paki navy gonna challenge you and chinese navy all they got to do is to call them.
 

Nuvneet Kundu

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Anyone ever wonder why and how the maximum number of spies are caught serving the IAF?
This is why I recommend splitting our air assets and distributing them. We can't put all our eggs in one basket, definitely not the IAF basket.

Just two days ago they have arrested some wing commander for misappropriation of OROP funds. Not surprisingly AAP is campaigning to get him out.
 

garg_bharat

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if navy got top of the line ships and plenty of numbers,this task could be done,

if others are talking like fake generals then you are talking like fake analyst,

if indian navy and indian military acts like a p***y few hundreds miles of indian shores then forget about being a superpower no one gonna even call you a regional power,
are those powerful ships and aircraft carriers are for decoration,
then sri lanka and bangladesh navy along with paki navy gonna challenge you and chinese navy all they got to do is to call them.
Give me examples of successful shipping blockade from history. Analyze those and then give me your data.

I have already told you that multi-country blockade of a very poor country like Yemen is only partially successful.

Pakistan has support of big actors. And I caution you, do not count on support of Uncle Sam.

A Su-30 can fly from Jamnagar and cover the entire coastal area of Pakistan and come back on internal fuel. So a Carrier is not needed. A carrier only presents a lucrative target for the enemy.

Use of carrier is to secure shipping lanes far from Indian shores, where shore based aviation cannot reach.
 
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salute

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Give me examples of successful shipping blockade from history. Analyze those and then give me your data.

I have already told you that multi-country blockade of a very poor country like Yemen is only partially successful.

Pakistan has support of big actors. And I caution you, do not count on support of Uncle Sam.

A Su-30 can fly from Jamnagar and cover the entire coastal area of Pakistan and come back on internal fuel. So a Carrier is not needed. A carrier only presents a lucrative target for the enemy.

Use of carrier is to secure shipping lanes far from Indian shores, where shore based aviation cannot reach.
usa did this task during cuban missile crisis against soviet navy.
 

garg_bharat

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@salute, Cuba is very far from USSR and very close to USA.

Plus India is no USA.

India has a remarkably defensive mindset. A string of losses will bring our leaders back into their shell.

Do India has "whatever it takes" attitude. Not yet.

Rather than blockade, better option is to destroy ports and other infrastructure close to ports. This will slow down things. As I said PN ships will be history. But just destroying PN ships is not enough.
 
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garg_bharat

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IAF indirectly asking more funds through scare tactics,Next Navy and finally Army also follow.

Yes we must increase our defence budget as par with China(4 times of India's def budget) then only world recognize&respects India.Only power respects power. :)
I like your logic. Similar to "We will eat grass but develop nuke for sure".

The next Tata Birla will be Generals.
 

spikey360

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@Nuvneet Kundu, your idea of a separate space command is very practical. A friendly nation of ours has the same.
There is high risk in keeping all the expensive assets with the IAF only. Especially the ballistic missiles. They should be given to the Army. Missile has nothing to do with "Air Force". It is a guided projectile, just like a bullet is a projectile.

The IAF is becoming exactly the antithesis of the Indian Navy. If things go down this path, perhaps someday Navy aviation will be many times better than AF.
 

spikey360

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@salute,
Rather than blockade, better option is to destroy ports and other infrastructure close to ports. This will slow down things. As I said PN ships will be history. But just destroying PN ships is not enough.
Exactly, bombardment of ports is more important than blockades. Ships can't offload heavy equipments without port cranes. Let the ships be stuck in water, then torpedo them at will.
 

garg_bharat

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@saty, the defence expenditure (military + home + pensions) is already 3% of GDP. There is no scope to increase it.

If India increases it, there will be negative consequences on country's finances.

I think better defence will come from smartness, not from extra money.
 

garg_bharat

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Want to bring some fun in this thread.

Indians believe a lot in predictions. Some people must have heard about Edgar Cayce.

In this first short example, Cayce - in the 1930s - indicated the 'sins' of the key nations:
America - has forgotten "in God we trust"
England - conceit
France - lust
China - isolationism
India - internalization of knowledge
Italy - dissensions
He said "Russia will become beacons of hope for the world." The statement about the 'conceit' (of the Zionist London Banksters?) in England is extraordinary. Just look at the Zionist conquest of Europe under the EU. The comment about America having forgotten "in God we Trust" is beyond eerily accurate. Remember, these statements were made in the 1930s

SECOND -
In this, more detailed account of his prowess, Cayce makes a number of nearly breathtaking projections -
Cayce predicted the beginning and end of both the First and Second World Wars, and the lifting of the Depression in 1933. In the 1920s, he first warned of coming racial strife in the United States, and in 1939 he predicted the deaths of two presidents in office;
"Ye are to have turmoils -- ye are to have strife between capital and labor. Ye are to have a division in thy own land, before ye have the second of the Presidents that next will not live through his office... a mob rule!"
President Franklin D. Roosevelt died in office in April 1945. In November 1963, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas, when racial tensions in the United States were at their height.
"Unless there is more give and take and consideration for those who produce, with better division of the excess profits from labor, there must be greater turmoil in the land."
In October 1935, Cayce spoke of the coming war in Europe. The Austrians and Germans, he said, and later the Japanese, would take sides.
"Thus, an unseen force, gradually growing, must result in an almost direct opposition to the Nazi, or Aryan theme. This will gradually produce a growth of animosities. And unless there is interference by what many call supernatural forces and influences -- which are active in the affairs of nations and peoples -- the whole world as it were... will be set on fire by militaristic groups and people who are for power expansion."
(This 'unseen force' is clearly the Zionist banking cartel and its forcing the US into WWII against Germany via the chicanery of FDR and the London and Wall Street Zionist banksters. Few remember that the Bolshevik Communist Zionist Jews were within a few weeks of a massive invasion of Germany and all of Europe when Hitler beat them to the punch with Operation Barbarosa, hoping to destroy Communism/Bolshevism once and for all.)
Through Russia, Cayce said "comes the hope of the world. Not in respect to what is sometimes termed Communism or Bolshevism -- no! But freedom -- freedom! That each man will live for his fellow man. The principle has been born there. It will take years for it to be crystallized; yet out of Russia comes again the hope of the world."
Cayce also predicted the possibility of a THIRD World War. He spoke of strifes arising..."in Libya, and in Egypt, in Ankara, and in Syria; through the straits around those areas above the Persian Gulf."
Later on, when asked in June 1943 whether it would be feasible to work towards an equitable international world currency or a stabilization of international exchange levels when the war (WW II) had ended, Cayce replied that it would be a long, long time before this would happen. Indeed, he said, "there may be another war (WW III) over just such conditions."
 
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garg_bharat

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Wrong again ours is 2% (quote if u have authentic data) of GDP.


NO, country IS made of people for the people and by the people.If people morale is high 300 millions become 'Americans' and RULE THE WORLD. If people's morale is shit 200 mn become Terrorists&beggars aka Porkis.

See MORALE is important.Morale :D
The para-military is also defence expenditure. Military and para-military pension is also defence. You cannot create novel categories and say this is not defence.

The real defence expenditure of India is in 4 lakh crore range which is close to 3%.
 

salute

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@salute, Cuba is very far from USSR and very close to USA.

Plus India is no USA.
same thing china is far from pakis shore,
but india is very close to it,

and yes indias is not usa,so already told you that this task requires plenty of top of the line ships,
Do India has "whatever it takes" attitude. Not yet.
dont know what you mean by this.

Rather than blockade, better option is to destroy ports and other infrastructure close to ports. This will slow down things. As I said PN ships will be history. But just destroying PN ships is not enough.
your argument of destroying the ships is pointless because its just for slowing things down and after that you dont know, as you saying its not enough,
not to mention destroying pakis port gonna start full scale war with chinese nukes armed pakis,

usa did this task exactly to avoid such war with ussr,

this task is not start a war but to avoid one,

India has a remarkably defensive mindset. A string of losses will bring our leaders back into their shell.
then your opposing argument is about losses,
which gonna force indias leaders to retreat,thats must be exactly what is pakis and chinese wants,
but then question is going to full scale war is that not gonna do losses.
 
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garg_bharat

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@salute, either it will be full scale war, or there will be no war.

I do not agree with your idea of blockade with some super duper ships.
A blockade will cause full scale war - 100% certain.

The arguments do not matter. Logic matters. It is not a question of I say this and you say that.

The forces that have been keeping Pakistan alive for last 20 years cannot be very friendly to India. And it is not China alone. China is just one of the actors. I would call China a copycat of USA.
 

garg_bharat

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Some Indians have falsely assumed that USA is on India's side. Nothing is farther from the truth.

India can buy American weapons, but that is only a commercial transaction.

This call to ally Naval forces is nothing but deception. China is far more important to US economy as compared to India.
 

salute

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@salute, either it will be full scale war, or there will be no war.

I do not agree with your idea of blockade with some super duper ships.
A blockade will cause full scale war - 100% certain.

The arguments do not matter. Logic matters. It is not a question of I say this and you say that.

The forces that have been keeping Pakistan alive for last 20 years cannot be very friendly to India. And it is not China alone. China is just one of the actors. I would call China a copycat of USA.
by the super duper ships did not meant some star wars like ships, lol,

what me meant is,ships superior than any other nation at indian ocean and india do got such ships and
these ships match with usa and european navy ships,but they are not plentiful,

and what you said about war,its 50-50 at both or any such scenario,

task of surrounding pakis with navy its not perfect one,
even usa did not had any guarantees that it will work against ussr which was much powerful than pakis,
and american military commanders considered it exactly opposite of any good strategy just like you,

and actually at a war games they ran a simulation of surrounding cuba by usn to see that if its gonna work and it didnt,

just like you said about pakis,
american military commanders were more at favor of destroying those missiles and invade cuba,
and launch full scale against ussr if they do anything,
more likely scenario was ussr would move onto berlin and nato,
which gonna end up full scale war between usa and ussr,

me not advocating anything at this argument,
war or surround them with navy depends upon situation,
and agree with you that china is not only one who is helping pakis,

so if indian navy do such task of surrounding pakis they gonna need hugh and powerful navy and they got move first before anyone else then india may hold upper hand if its war or draw.
 
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Why does a nation of 1.2 billion people need help? Oh yes we don't have a military industrial infrastructure and it takes decades to buy anything and half projects jointly or solo are scratched


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Not necessary that there will be a "world war" as a result of south asian war. India can neither expect nor plan for a world war. @LETHALFORCE is correct that a two front war will quickly change India's nuclear stance.

Israel will not fight on India's behalf. Pakistan is still in Uncle's sphere of influence. If this change (when USA and China are real blood enemies), then maybe.
Isn't it strange that India a nation which tried to prevent wars and be a good boy has no allies and Pakistan actively involved and always up for sale has many? Much if this can be traced back to India's involvement in the failure of a non aligned movement and failure of politicians.


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garg_bharat

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@salute, your theory is impossible in case of Pakistan and India.
Theoretically anything can happen. But does not happen. Actual events happen according to the real capabilities of nations.
 

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