Indian advancements in Supercomputing

[Officer of Engineers]

everybody is breaking the NPT so why would Russia be any different?

I know of no violation by any signatory party to the NPT. And if you are refering to China, the Chinese proliferation activities happened before their signing. North Korea withdrew from the NPT before her tests and Iran has not admitted to AQ Khan's proliferation activities.

The only possible (and legally tenious but no one has challenged this) source of violation is the possible use of nukes by Allied Forces, ie the NATO and Warsaw Pact Allies. While the N5 powers legally retain pocession of the nukes in question, their deployment by allied delivery vehicles is questionable at best.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

What information do you have that tell you that this data is not enough for simulations?.

Does the term aged arsenal mean anything? Also, the simulateneous explosions is reason enough to doubt the data.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

these are all meaningless legal terms but even Japan has violated the NPT
also India has not signed the NPT so it makes no difference, USA has also made India and exception for the NPT.

Japan firms played into Khan's nuclear hands | The Japan Times Online

 

[Officer of Engineers]

these are all meaningless legal terms but even Japan has violated the NPT

Would you show me where and when Russia has shared nuclear weapons data with anyone?

also India has not signed the NPT so it makes no difference

But Russia has and Russia has not shared nuclear weapons data with anyone.

Japan firms played into Khan's nuclear hands | The Japan Times Online

I failed to see where nuclear weapons data changed hands from Japan.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

USA has also made India and exception for the NPT.

The Hyde Act specifically states that the 123 Agreement is not a violation of the NPT. The US is in noway helping India with her nuclear weapons program.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Would you show me where and when Russia has shared nuclear weapons data with anyone?

But Russia has and Russia has not shared nuclear weapons data with anyone.

I failed to see where nuclear weapons data changed hands from Japan.

are you a Russian authority??

Nuclear processing material changed hand from Japan something even more tangible than data.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The Hyde Act specifically states that the 123 Agreement is not a violation of the NPT. The US is in noway helping India with her nuclear weapons program.

India has choosen the military reactors and civilian reactor so i think in that sense USA has helped plenty. And our Fast breeder reactors are on the military side.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

are you a Russian authority??

Are you? I've been in this game a lot longer than you and I have yet to see one intel source stating that Russia has shared nuke weapons data in anyway shape or form. Granted, it does not mean that they have not but I like some proof that they violated their own treaty obligations, a treaty that they authored before accusing them of a crime that they did not and has not commited to date.

Nuclear processing material changed hand from Japan something even more tangible than data.

And I remind you that this is all the NPT requires

Article II

Each non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to receive the transfer from any transferor whatsoever of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or of control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly; not to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices; and not to seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.

2. Each State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to provide: (a) source or special fissionable material, or (b) equipment or material especially designed or prepared for the processing, use or production of special fissionable material, to any non-nuclear-weapon State for peaceful purposes, unless the source or special fissionable material shall be subject to the safeguards required by this Article.

This is the basis on how the 123 is legal and how the NSG can legally proceed.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

India has choosen the military reactors and civilian reactor so i think in that sense USA has helped plenty. And our Fast breeder reactors are on the military side.

But the American aide to India does not violate the NPT Articles. Freeing up Indian stores for their own use does not mean that American materials and expertise are going into Indian bombs.

 

[Daredevil]

Does the term aged arsenal mean anything? Also, the simulateneous explosions is reason enough to doubt the data.

The aged arsenal problem is common for everyone, there is no escape. I don't know how countries deal with this problem without exploding.

Anyways, I was talking about the collection of data for future simulations in the context of designing the nuclear weapons not in the context of testing aged arsenals.

Nothing is for sure that the two sub-kiloton explosions (Shakti IV and V) are simultaneous, they could be near simultaneous as well. And, they were conducted in two different shafts as well.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

The aged arsenal problem is common for everyone, there is no escape. I don't know how countries deal with this problem without exploding.

They test their aged arsenal (ie, taking a nuke from various periods of their lives and detonanting them).

Anyways, I was talking about the collection of data for future simulations in the context of designing the nuclear weapons not in the context of testing aged arsenals.

The aged arsenal data is far more important.

Nothing is for sure that the two sub-kiloton explosions (Shakti IV and V) are simultaneous, they could be near simultaneous as well. And, they were conducted in two different shafts as well.

That they designed this way goes against all know test protocals that I am aware of. You isolate the systems as much as possible to avoid false positives.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Are you? I've been in this game a lot longer than you and I have yet to see one intel source stating that Russia has shared nuke weapons data in anyway shape or form. Granted, it does not mean that they have not but I like some proof that they violated their own treaty obligations, a treaty that they authored before accusing them of a crime that they did not and has not commited to date.

And I remind you that this is all the NPT requires





This is the basis on how the 123 is legal and how the NSG can legally proceed.

I will not get to a personal level, but there is no proof for breaking any treaty before it existed but Indian scientists have collected plenty of data from Russian tests from 1950's to 1970's. Russians have not violated anything after the NPT

 

[LETHALFORCE]

But the American aide to India does not violate the NPT Articles. Freeing up Indian stores for their own use does not mean that American materials and expertise are going into Indian bombs.

of course not

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The aged arsenal problem is common for everyone, there is no escape. I don't know how countries deal with this problem without exploding.

Anyways, I was talking about the collection of data for future simulations in the context of designing the nuclear weapons not in the context of testing aged arsenals.

Nothing is for sure that the two sub-kiloton explosions (Shakti IV and V) are simultaneous, they could be near simultaneous as well. And, they were conducted in two different shafts as well.

all testing in the future will be by computers so physical testing will be eventually phased out, also non NPT signatories like India and Israel can always collaborate without any violations

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Computers show parts of nuclear blast in 3-D

Computers show parts of nuclear blast in 3-D
ASSOCIATED PRESS



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


LOS ALAMOS, JULY 20: Computers for the first time have simulated the beginning of a hydrogen bomb blast in full-scale 3-D, Los Alamos National Laboratory scientists say.

The simulations, completed April 30 and announced this week, are a major step toward replacing underground nuclear test blasts.

The simulations took 42 days to run using super-fast computers at Los Alamos, Lawrence Livermore and Sandia National Laboratories.

A Lawrence Livermore simulation showed the detonation of the plutonium spark plug that starts a hydrogen bomb blast. The Los Alamos simulation showed the second step, when a burst of radiation from the plutonium ignites the fuel that gives a hydrogen bomb its big blast.

Nuclear weapons scientists in the past have devised two-dimensional computer simulations. They then built bombs and triggered them underground to check their theories.

But the United States, as part of an international arms control effort, stopped underground testing in 1992.

Since then, the nation's nuclear lab scientists have been working to develop faster computers and better simulations to replace the information they once received from underground tests.

A key problem was how to simulate the complex whorls and eddies of materials mixing as they are compressed.

Tackling the problem was impossible until a new supercomputer was deliver to Los Alamos lab in 1998, said Bob Weaver, test leader. The computer is capable of performing 1.6 trillion calculations per second.

Copyright © 2000 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Russian Academy of Science buys Indian Param supercomputer

Russian Academy of Science buys Indian Param supercomputer


New Delhi 14 August 2000 The Indian Center for Development of Advanced Computing has sold its third Param 110 Gflop/s supercomputer to the Russian Academy of Science's Institute for Computer Aided Design supporting scientific applications such as fluid dynamics, image processing and climate modelling.


"We have just completed the deployment of our third supercomputer, the Param 10000 version, in Russia. The supercomputer will be used for scientific applications including fluid dynamics and environment monitoring," RK Arora, executive director of government's Research and development unit, Center for Development of Advanced Computing (CDAC) said.

The latest supercomputer was sold to Russian Academy of Science's Institute for Computer Aided Design for about Rs20 million (euro 450,000).

The order for sale of the 16 processor Param series of supercomputer had been made by Russia in December last year under a commercial contract, he added.

Pune-based CDAC developer of Param series of supercomputers has already sold two such application intensive machines to Russia and Singapore.

CDAC, which recently launched the Param Anant range of cost effective supercomputers, has also chalked out a new marketing strategy to sell the machines in India.

Param-10000 cost the Russian side a third or a quarter of its actual price. Half of the cost of the project for the supply of the computer has been repaid by Russian scientists' contribution to the creation of high-tech products for the Indian centre for designing computer systems.

The order for sale of the 16 processor Param series of supercomputer had been made by Russia in December last year under a commercial contract, he added.

Pune-based CDAC developer of Param series of supercomputers has already sold two such application intensive machines to Russia and Singapore

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India beats US curbs to produce supercomputer

India beats US curbs to produce supercomputer
By IANS
Tuesday,17 December 2002, 00:00 hrs

India has beaten export control restrictions by the U.S. to announce the launch of the Param Padma, to date the most powerful supercomputer the country's scientists have indigenously produced.


BANGALORE: The one-teraflop (TF) scalable supercomputing cluster, claimed to be the largest machine in the Asia-Pacific outside of Japan, is capable of setting the pace for an Indian revolution in the field of bio-informatics, weather forecasting, fluid mechanics in space technology, seismic data processing in oil and gas exploration, drug discovery and computational chemistry.



"At present we cannot import systems because of export control restrictions. But we have sourced some of our components from elsewhere and developed our own technologies to produce Padma," R.K. Arora, executive director of the Centre for Development of Advanced Computing (C-DAC), told reporters here.

Currently, the fastest supercomputer, a 36 TF machine, exists in Japan, followed by the U.S. with 13 TF.

"But the 248 processors in Padma are scalable to 1,200, providing storage facility to go up from five terabytes to 22 terabytes. This is why we say it
is state-of-the-art," added Indian IT secretary Rajeeva Ratna Shah.

One TF, or 1,000 gigaflops (GF), is equivalent to one trillion floating point operations per second. For the layman, it means calculations that a normal computer would take six months to perform can be done in a matter of minutes on this supercomputing cluster.

About 200 scientists developed the Param Padma at a cost of Rs.500 million over the last four years. The supercomputer has been displayed at the sixth international conference on high performance computing in the Asia Pacific region, which opened here Monday.

The interconnect switch -- the Paramnet II -- and the entire suite of systems software tools including management, debugging, compiling and engineering solutions have been developed indigenously, Arora said.

U.S. restrictions on India importing supercomputers came in the 1980s on suspicions that New Delhi was using dual use technology for nuclear purposes.

But the work of the scientific community at C-DAC as well as the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) here led to the production of the Param series of parallel computing -- the Param 8000 (one GF) in 1991, the Param 8600 (five GF) in 1993, the Param 9000 (10 GF) in 1995, Param 10,000 (100 GF) in 1998 and the Param Padma I 2002.

Seven pieces of the Param 10,000 have already been sold abroad, with Russia purchasing four and Canada, Germany and Singapore buying one each.

"We will look at the overseas market for Padma too, at least to those countries which need it. At the current rates, it should cost 50 percent lower at $5 million when compared with similar products from the developed countries," said Arora.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

I will not get to a personal level, but there is no proof for breaking any treaty before it existed but Indian scientists have collected plenty of data from Russian tests from 1950's to 1970's. Russians have not violated anything after the NPT

Would you mind showing me any EVIDENCE of this?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Would you mind showing me any EVIDENCE of this?

Show me your your evidnce first??

 

[Yusuf]

We usually back up claims by some link and evidence. So anyone making claims please provide links to substantiate those claims. And let's not get personal.