India's tanks, combat vehicles to get night-vision devices

[Daredevil]

New Delhi: The defence ministry today approved a Rs 2,820 crore proposal to provide night-vision devices to the Army to enable its tanks and infantry combat vehicles to have capability to fight in both day and night conditions.

A meeting of the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by Defence Minister AK Antony also approved proposals to upgrade the 130 mm artillery guns of the Army along with amendments in procurement procedure to boost indigenisation in defence production, defence ministry sources said in New Delhi.

Under the plans to do away with the night blindness of Army's mechanised fleet including the Russian-origin T-90 and T-72 tanks and the BMP Infantry Combat Vehicles (ICV), around 5,000 thermal imaging sights would be procured from defence public sector unit Bharat Electronics Limited, they said.

For the T-72, which are the main stay of the Indian Army, 2,000 pieces of TI sights would be procured for Rs 1,000 crore while 1,200 pieces would be bought for the T-90 Main Battle Tanks for Rs 960 crore.

TI sights numbering 1,780 would be inducted for the BMP Infantry Combat Vehicles for Rs 860 crore, they said.

The army has been worried over night-fighting capabilities of its armoured columns and reports had earlier suggested that only 50 percent of the tank fleet of the forces had this ability.

Meanwhile, the ministry also cleared a proposal to upgrade the existing inventory of M-46 130mm artillery guns to 155mm guns through the Ordnance Factory Board.

The OFB has plans of modernising its facilities under a Rs 15,000 crore plan in the ongoing 12th Defence Plan.

The DAC also discussed the amendments in the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) under which efforts to boost indigenisation in defence sector would be encouraged.

The amendments are based on the Ravinder Gupta Committee report on boosting indigenisation which has given suggestions to give the first right of refusal to the indigenous industry for the weapon system requirement of the armed forces.

PTI

 

[WMD]

Night vision devices: Rs. 2,800 cr deal for Army

Night vision devices: Rs. 2,800 cr deal for Army

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) Tuesday cleared a Rs. 2,800 crore deal for boosting the night vision capabilities of the Indian Army's tanks and infantry combat vehicles, an official source said.

The DAC, which was headed by defence minister AK Antony approved the procurement of 2,000 pieces of night vision devices for T-72 tanks for Rs. 1,000 crore; 1,200 pieces for T-90 tanks for Rs. 960 crore and 1.780 pieces for infantry combat vehicles for Rs.860 crore.

While discussing the deal for purchasing AgustaWestland VVIP helicopters for the Indian Air Force, which has been put on hold after graft charges emerged, the meeting decided that the name of Brigadier YS Saini, who allegedly figures in another deal, would first have to be cleared before any other action is taken.

Italian prosecutors investigating defense giant Finmeccanica have accused a serving Indian Army officer, identified as "Brigadier Saini", for allegedly demanded $5 million to influence a contract for 197 light helicopters in favour of the company's subsidiary, AgustaWestland.

The meeting, however, remained inconclusive over the issue of changes in the defence procurement procedures (DPP), the official said. This would now be taken up at its meeting on April 20.

The Council was expected to approve changes to procurement rules that would boost indigenization of defense procurement by giving a bigger role to the indigenous industry for supplying military hardware to the armed forces.

In addition, it would give domestic industry, both public and private, the right of refusal before the import option is exercised.


Night vision devices: Rs. 2,800 cr deal for Army - Hindustan Times

 

[JBH22]

Re: Night vision devices: Rs. 2,800 cr deal for Army

So when is it going to be scrapped under charges of corruption or even better after 1 or 2 years army officers will come out we bought defective equipments

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Re: Night vision devices: Rs. 2,800 cr deal for Army

the t-90 mbt lacks even night vision? what piece of shit are we inducting?

 

[average american]

Re: Night vision devices: Rs. 2,800 cr deal for Army

The Indian Army [ Images ] chief's concern that India's tank fleet was largely incapable of fighting at night highlighted only a part of the problem with the Russian T-72, the army's main tank. In fact, the T-72 is in far worse shape than General Deepak Kapoor described last month.

Another signal of the T-72's obsolescence was its recent withdrawal, by the army's Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), from next month's comparative trials with the indigenous Arjun tank. An embarrassed DGMF has realised that, without major refurbishing, the T-72 was not in the Arjun's class.

But in the army's long-term planning, the T-72 -- which the more advanced T-90 will replace only gradually -- will continue to equip almost half of the army's 59 tank regiments as far in the future as 2022.

Business Standard has accessed a sheaf of technical reports and funding requests that actually quantify the state of the T-72. Exactly 32 years have passed since the first T-72s arrived in India; army guidelines stipulate 32 years as the service life of a tank. The earliest tanks from the army's 2,418-strong T-72 inventory should have already been retired, making way for a more modern tank, such as the T-90 or the Arjun.

Instead, the DGMF -- longstanding advocates of Russian equipment -- plans to spend Rs 5 crore per T-72, hoping to add another 15-20 years to that tank's service life by replacing crucial systems, such as its fire control system, main engine and night vision devices.

The military's Annual Acquisition Plan for 2008-2010 (AAP 2008-10) lists out the cost of modernising the T-72 fleet as follows:

New 1000-horsepower engines (identical to the T-90 tank) to replace the T-72's old 780-horsepower engines. The cost of each engine: Rs 3 crore.
Thermal Imaging Fire Control Systems (TIFCS) that will allow the T-72 gunners to observe and fight at night. Each TIFCS will cost Rs 1.4 crore.
Thermal Imaging (TI) sights to provide T-72 tank commanders with night vision. Each TI sight costs Rs 0.4 crore.
An auxillary power unit (APU) to generate power for the tank's electrical systems. Each APU will cost Rs 0.16 crore.


The Rs 5-crore cost of upgrading each T-72 knocks out the argument that the T-72 -- at Rs 9 crore apiece -- is value-for-money. Retrofitting upgraded systems will escalate the cost of the T-72 to Rs 14 crore. In contrast, a new Arjun, with a 1,500 horsepower engine, state-of-the-art integrated electronics, and the indigenous, widely praised Kanchan armour, can be had for a marginally more expensive Rs 16.8 crore.

"It is folly to stick with Russian tanks despite having developed the Arjun, and the design capability to continuously improve it," says Lt Gen Ajai Singh, who headed the army's Directorate of Combat Vehicles before becoming Governor of Assam. "India can tailor the Arjun to our specific requirements and continuously upgrade the tank to keep it state-of-the-art. Why upgrade old T-72s? It is time to bring in the Arjun."

The T-72's galloping obsolescence is magnified by the MoD's failure to overhaul tanks on schedule: Some 800 T-72s are years overdue for overhaul. Originally, each T-72 was to be overhauled twice during its service life of 32 years. But as the overhaul agencies -- the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi; and 505 Army Base Workshop, Delhi [ Images ] -- failed to meet their overhaul targets of 70 and 50 tanks, respectively, the army decided that one overhaul was good enough. And, with even that schedule not implemented, a desperate MoD has approached Indian industry to play a role in overhauling the T-72 fleet.
Army to spend over Rs5000 cr on obsolete T-72 tank - Rediff.com India News



The total expenditure on the T-72 tank, budgeted for AAP 2008-10, is over Rs 5000 crore. The cost of overhaul has not been accurately determined.

 

[JBH22]

Day by Day its like army guys are becoming like babus all concerned about filling their pockets.

Throw that T-72 and BMP-2 sh1t to the past they are relics in modern warfare.

 

[Snuggy321]

Day by Day its like army guys are becoming like babus all concerned about filling their pockets.

Throw that T-72 and BMP-2 sh1t to the past they are relics in modern warfare.

Nah T 72s and BMP2s can be quite useful if properly upgraded.



And what about all those old news stating that 70 % of our tank fleet has night fighting capabilities????

 

[Snuggy321]

Re: Night vision devices: Rs. 2,800 cr deal for Army

the t-90 mbt lacks even night vision? what piece of shit are we inducting?

I highly doubt that.

 

[average american]

Nah T 72s and BMP2s can be quite useful if properly upgraded.



And what about all those old news stating that 70 % of our tank fleet has night fighting capabilities????

I would think night sights on a tank would be rather useless, an enemy with thermal sights would use smoke to hide theri location while they could continue attacking the tanks with night sights at will, tanks with thermal sights would be practically useless in sand strorms and sever storms, I though night sights for tanks were obsolete.

The Iraqi 72 tanks were worthless, they did disabole a few american tanks but not one american was killed in a tank by Iraqi tanks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF2mnq7ZzcA&feature=player_detailpage

 

[JBH22]

Nah T 72s and BMP2s can be quite useful if properly upgraded.



And what about all those old news stating that 70 % of our tank fleet has night fighting capabilities????

Given that we have Arjun which is better and also the residual life of the T-72 and BMP-2 its worthless to upgrade them.

Though the time for procurement of hardware is so long I think that army prefers to stick to upgrades rather than new induction.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Sound like these TI for those T-90S which are under production..

Those 600 T-90S already in service have there TI operational..

T-72M1 use thermal already, I guess these are much better TI to replace those Russian TI / NV..

2,000 pieces of night vision devices for T-72 tanks for 1,000 crore; 1,200 pieces for T-90 tanks for 960 crore

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I would think night sights on a tank would be rather useless, an enemy with thermal sights would use smoke to hide theri location while they could continue attacking the tanks with night sights at will, tanks with thermal sights would be practically useless in sand strorms and sever storms, I though night sights for tanks were obsolete.

The Iraqi 72 tanks were worthless, they did disabole a few american tanks but not one american was killed in a tank by Iraqi tanks.

The article referenced in the original posts equates night vision with thermal sights. I am not sure about how you see a difference.

Here is a reference on batllefield smoke.

[PDF]http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-50.pdf[/PDF]

 

[sayareakd]

Arjun TI was much better so may be IA has asked for same.

 

[Bhadra]

[=average american;708144]I would think night sights on a tank would be rather useless,

The resverse is true. A tank without night sight is in fact worthless. In the armour battle, even during day times, the visual range gets shortened due to dust or sand storms or speed.

an enemy with thermal sights would use smoke to hide theri location while they could continue attacking the tanks with night sights at will, tanks with thermal sights would be practically useless in sand strorms and sever storms, I though night sights for tanks were obsolete.

Thermal imagers can detect target through dust, smoke and haze. It is sights based on II technologies that get effected.

The Iraqi 72 tanks were worthless, they did disabole a few american tanks but not one american was killed in a tank by Iraqi tanks. Battle of 73 Easting/Norfolk - YouTube

But those Iraqi tanks which fired on American tanks managed to disable those and put those out of battle. It was Iraqi dolfiers who got defeated not Iraqi tanks. Had Iraqies fought with git and ditermination, it would have been a grave yard for American tanks who were conducting themselves as if on a firing range. See the vidieo. Pathetic.. They were firing line abrest . Ha Ha Ha...

 

[Bhadra]

Arjun TI was much better so may be IA has asked for same.

Ah... you mean those manufactured by DRDO... ?

Has to be better .......

You know they can not even make batteries for TI sights..

 

[W.G.Ewald]

The article referenced in the original posts equates night vision with thermal sights. I am not sure about how you see a difference.

Answering my own question:

Thermal Imaging Vs Night Vision | OpticsPlanet How-To Guide on the Differences & Similarities between Night Vision & Thermal Imagers

What is Thermal Imaging?

Thermal imaging cameras are technically not cameras, but rather sensors that detect heat (also called thermal energy or infrared). Technically, these devices are detecting radiation. The amount of this radiation goes up with the temperature.

With enough precision a thermal imager can see minute differences in heat and represent this as an image (or thermogram) on a screen. The temperature differences detectable on some of the world's most sophisticated devices can be as small as 0.01°C. Various colors are used to represent temperatures so when you see a black and white thermal image the lighter the color, the hotter the object (newer thermal imagers can invert this or use a wide variety of colors). Human beings, animals and cars generate heat and are usually warmer than their surroundings, allowing the user of a thermal imager to get a good look at them. A coldblooded animal such as a snake will be harder to see because their body temperature adjusts to their surroundings.

Because they detect radiation, thermal imagers do not require any visible light to produce an image.

What about Night Vision?

Unlike thermal imagers, Image Intensification Night Vision needs at least a small amount of light to operate. If you're hunting or on patrol at night the moon and stars will often yield enough light for a good image, but shadows can still make it difficult to see. If you're in a building or a cave with no ambient light available your night vision will not show any more than your naked eye.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Standoff Battlefield Illumination

 

[sayareakd]

Ah... you mean those manufactured by DRDO... ?

Has to be better .......

You know they can not even make batteries for TI sights..

yeah they cant make it because they are not the manufactures :thumb:

 

[average american]

The resverse is true. A tank without night sight is in fact worthless. In the armour battle, even during day times, the visual range gets shortened due to dust or sand storms or speed.



Thermal imagers can detect target through dust, smoke and haze. It is sights based on II technologies that get effected.



But those Iraqi tanks which fired on American tanks managed to disable those and put those out of battle. It was Iraqi dolfiers who got defeated not Iraqi tanks. Had Iraqies fought with git and ditermination, it would have been a grave yard for American tanks who were conducting themselves as if on a firing range. See the vidieo. Pathetic.. They were firing line abrest . Ha Ha Ha...

You really done have a clue about anything you are saying do you..

 

[average american]

The resverse is true. A tank without night sight is in fact worthless. In the armour battle, even during day times, the visual range gets shortened due to dust or sand storms or speed.



Thermal imagers can detect target through dust, smoke and haze. It is sights based on II technologies that get effected.



But those Iraqi tanks which fired on American tanks managed to disable those and put those out of battle. It was Iraqi dolfiers who got defeated not Iraqi tanks. Had Iraqies fought with git and ditermination, it would have been a grave yard for American tanks who were conducting themselves as if on a firing range. See the vidieo. Pathetic.. They were firing line abrest . Ha Ha Ha...

You really dont have a clue about anything you are saying do you..