India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from doldrums

Ray

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India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from doldrums
Rajat Pandit,TNN | Nov 6, 2014


India is not likely to get a futuristic stealth fighter anytime before 2024-2025. Technical and price wrangles continue to bedevil the joint project with Russia to develop the fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).

India, in fact, has conveyed its deep concerns to Russia about being denied "full access" to the FGFA project despite the fact that it is supposed to be an equal partner in financing it. The "continuing problems" in the project has meant India and Russia are still to ink the full final design or R&D phase contract for the FGFA, throwing revised timelines into yet another tailspin.

Earlier this year, officials were also shocked to find that India's work-share in the FGFA project had been reduced to just 13% from the earlier envisaged one of 50%. "Russia is yet to clear our lingering technical doubts about the project. But with President Vladimir Putin coming to India in December, there might finally be some forward movement," said a source.

India and Russia had inked the $295 million preliminary design contract in December 2010, as per which the under-development Russian 5th Gen fighter called Sukhoi T-50 would be tweaked to Indian requirements for its "perspective multi-role fighter".

But the final R&D contract, which was to be signed by 2012, is still to be finalized. Under it, India and Russia are supposed to chip in with $5.5 billion each towards the cost of designing, infrastructure build-up, prototype development and flight testing, as earlier reported by TOI.

All the 127 single-seat fighters that India hopes to induct are to be built at the Ozar facility of Hindustan Aeronautics in Nashik. In fact, the first Indian FGFA prototype was earlier slated to reach Ozar by 2014, with the second and third following in 2017 and 2019.

"But this obviously cannot happen now. The project's full R&D phase will also be pushed back to 2021-2022, only after which HAL will begin manufacturing the fighters," said the source.

India has repeatedly rebuffed overtures made by the US for joining its Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) or the F-35 'Lightning-II' programme. Now, having sunk in a lot of time and money into the FGFA project with Russia, it has no option but to pursue it.

But it has reduced the required numbers from an earlier 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat 5th Gen fighters to just 127 single-seat ones. It was felt that the twin-seat option would reduce the stealth features and add weight as well as make the fighter much more expensive.

India’s quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from doldrums - The Times of India
If this is how Russia is to address India's defence requirements, then one should not get too elated about anything from or with Russia.
 

Srinivas_K

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

If this is how Russia is to address India's defence requirements, then one should not get too elated about anything from or with Russia.
This is the result of Dragon hugging the Bear off Late Mr @Ray

The Indo - Russian projects like Brahmos, Naval projects and Sukhoi - 30 MKI are a success.

But the accident that took place when Indians are about to witness PAK - FA cannot be ruled out as sabotage and making it difficult for India to gain technology or field a 5 th Gen fighter.

Then there are powerful western arms lobbies who also try to gain market at the expense of Russia.

One of the main reason India went for MMRCA and PAK FA. If one fails then the other will take forward Indian Aviation Industry.

I think the tie up with Dassault will be on the cards combined with "Make in India" India will be in a better position vis - a vis China.
 
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Ray

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

This is the result of Dragon hugging the Bear off Late Mr @Ray

The Indo - Russian projects like Brahmos, Naval projects and Sukhoi - 30 MKI are a success.

But the accident that took place when Indians are about to witness PAK - FA cannot be ruled out as sabotage and making it difficult for India to gain technology or field a 5 th Gen fighter.

Then there are powerful western arms lobbies who also try to gain market at the expense of Russia.

One of the main reason India went for MMRCA and PAK FA. If one fails then the other will take forward Indian Aviation Industry.

I think the tie up with Dassault will be on the cards combined with "Make in India" India will be in a better position vis - a vis China.
The issue of western lobbies in no way influence Russia not to cooperate since it is in Russia's interest to produce and give the aircraft to India and be established as a reliable partner, which wil; be a great boost to the confidence India will have for Russia products and cooperation.
 
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Srinivas_K

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

The issue of western lobbies in no way influence Russia not to cooperate since it is in Russia's interest to produce and give the aircraft to India and be established as a reliable partner, which wil; be a great boost to the confidence India will have for Russia products and cooperation.
I am talking about the possibility of sabotage and the players involved in this accident Mr @ray.

India only spent 10 Billion or more to get the tech. There are nations out there who can spend more than that to make it difficult for India to get the Stealth tech.



Russia is as always a reliable friend of India. Hope the relations will be back on track :thumb:
 
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Ray

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

I am talking about the possibility of sabotage and the players involved in this accident Mr @ray.

India only spent 10 Billion or more to get the tech. There are nations out there who can spend more than that to make it difficult for India to get the Stealth tech.



Russia is as always a reliable friend of India. Hope the relations will be back on track :thumb:
I am not aware of the accident that you allude to.

USSR has been a friend, but after its collapse, Russia has withdrawn into its shell and with its own problem and has abandoned India.

It ceased all favourable agreements with India.
 
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Srinivas_K

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

I am not aware of the accident that you allude to.

USSR has been a friend, but after its collapse, Russia has withdrawn into its shell and with its own problem and has abandoned India.

It ceased all favourable agreements with India.
Russian T-50 PAK FA fighter prototype catches fire - IHS Jane's 360

This incident delayed the process, India is about to get PAK-FA prototype for testing in India.




Thanks
Ray
 
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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

Expect many more delays with pakfa before induction. Companies involved sukhoi and novator
Collaboration is also a big unknown.
 

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

Please see "Russia and India continue negotiations on fifth-generation fighter development"

Russia and India continue negotiations on fifth-generation fighter development | Russia & India Report

The statement "The Russian side said it hadn't received official claims from the Indian partners, adding that the work was going on schedule." is significant. It is a fact that India has not sent any official complaint to Russian side.

The problem in India is that press publishes planted stories. IAF may be unhappy with FGFA progress but the job of managing the contract is with MOD.

Delays happen often in technology intensive programs. FGFA is not a unique program to face delays.

The projects like this are only possible on the foundation of enormous goodwill between two nations. People should understand that.
 
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Srinivas_K

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

Sir, is there any specific time date for arrival of said prototype in india or reference article , please

The Indian Air Force expects to receive the first FGFA prototype by 2016 for user trials, followed by delivery of two more aircraft by 2019. The FGFA is scheduled to get into production by 2021, HAL sources have indicated.

This is from the article dated November 04

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...ts-ahead-of-rogozins-visit/article6565069.ece
 
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Hari Sud

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

If IAF dumps PAK-FA, then there is nothing new emerging. US will not share the design of a nut or a bolt of F-35 to its allies let alone India.

The question is whether you want a stealth fighter or not. If the answer is yes then, let the politicians redo the financial deal with payment schedule reworked to suit amount of work outsourced to india. Prices negotiated in 2007 are different than in 2014.

IAF, do not get overconfident on work sharing. There is nothing in IAF or HAL or DRDO to show off a huge competency.
 

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

$250 million India has invested is not that much and can be recovered from Russia in more ways than one.

India should take a call and exit. F-35 is on the table
 

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Re: India's quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from dold

@Yusuf, there is a reason why IAF went for FGFA. That reason is still valid today.
Let IAF make a new case if they do not want FGFA. So far nothing such is there.

You do not decide what IAF buys. Just statements like "F-35 is available" etc. do not make any sense and do not show the policy of either IAF or GOI.
 
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