India wanted LTTE 'put in its place': Norway report

[SPIEZ]

phenom pls dont lecture on the contribution of LTTE towards the innocent tamil's welfare.Its true that sinhalese govt was mistreating the tamils.LTTE was no different from the lankan govt,they were even worse.they too had killed thousands of people of their race just to become the number one among the groups fighting against the lankan forces.Check the net you could see many stories of LTTE's genocides done against their own people who stood in their way.

What LTTE did was wrong, no justification required there. But how did they start doing the same ? Who else was there to support the Lankan Tamils ? This would give a far clearer view.

LTTE is gone, time to start thinking about the Lankan Tamils.

 

[Phenom]

phenom pls dont lecture on the contribution of LTTE towards the innocent tamil's welfare..

Where the F#*@ did I do that?

Its true that sinhalese govt was mistreating the tamils.LTTE was no different from the lankan govt,.

So how about declaring both of them as terrorists?

they were even worse.they too had killed thousands of people of their race just to become the number one among the groups fighting against the lankan forces.Check the net you could see many stories of LTTE's genocides done against their own people who stood in their way.

Suddenly very caring about Tamil civilians aren't we? I wish you and others could have shown similar care when the SLA was shelling civilian zones in the last days of the war.

Anyway why did LTTE even come into this argument? Did I ask you to support it?

This was about the plight of the SL Tamils, not about LTTE. Right now LTTE is dead and along with it there are 20 to 30 thousand civilians, most Tamils want justice for those who died. So don't tell us to read about our own history from the internet.

 

[Ray]

OK Chaps, stand down.

No more of this, please.

 

[SPIEZ]

OK Chaps, stand down.

No more of this, please.

Sir, right from the start of this thread the LTTE was somehow dragged into picture. Now that the LTTE has been put into place what next for Sri-Lankan Tamils ?

 

[Singh]

They are foreigners to you, not to the 50 millions Tamils in India, stop telling us how we (Tamils) should think and who we should identify with.

Also we'll 'move on' after the Sikh community moves on from the '84 riots. Shoes are still thrown at the Home Minister because of the riots that killed three thousand people more than quarter-a-century ago and you expect us to move on from the genocide that killed 30000 people, just 3 years ago.

To Tamil members:

Why start such threads?
These threads just become excuses for people to come and lecture about patriotism and national interest and what not. Why go through the same thing again and again?

The social contract that a citizen of the state signs with the state, accepting the state's authority, has an implicit requirement of justice. The failure of the state to dispense justice, law and order augurs badly for the smooth functioning as we have seen.

The Sikhs are well within their rights to demand justice, and one must appreciate their willingness and steadfastness, inspite of all t
hat has happened, to reaffirm the state's authority over them. By not picking up arms, and seeking consitutional methods for the redressal of wrongs, they are setting an important precedent which is worthy of emulation.

It is not only important for the Sikhs to get justice but it is important for all communities of India and the state to ensure that Sikhs get justice as it is in national good, and a fundamental requirement for the very raison d'etre of Indian state.

OTOH SL Tamils have not signed any such covenant or a contract with the state of India.

Nobody is stopping you from articulating your position but you must realize what sort of a relationship you have with the state.

You as a subject of India and also as a citizen of the world, have a right to demand justice but it is not binding over the state of India to heed to your demands. The state of India has to weigh the pros and cons of meddling in another sovereign state's affairs.

 

[SPIEZ]

The Sikhs are well within their rights to demand justice, and one must appreciate their willingness and steadfastness, inspite of all t
hat has happened, to reaffirm the state's authority over them. By not picking up arms, and seeking consitutional methods for the redressal of wrongs, they are setting an important precedent which is worthy of emulation.

It is not only important for the Sikhs to get justice but it is important for all communities of India and the state to ensure that Sikhs get justice as it is in national good, and a fundamental requirement for the very raison d'etre of Indian state.

What makes it unimportant for the Lankans Tamils to obtain justice ? LTTE( a la Khalistan) was the only terrorist organisation there, did you see anyone else taking up the arms there ?

As Indians we stand against all injustice which is done to Indians irrespective of their clan or religion.
Why can't we as Tamils, ask the same for other Tamils ?

OTOH SL Tamils have not signed any such covenant or a contract with the state of India.

You as a subject of India and also as a citizen of the world, have a right to demand justice but it is not binding over the state of India to heed to your demands. The state of India has to weigh the pros and cons of meddling in another sovereign state's affairs.

Did the GoI weigh their Pro's and Cons when they started meddling with the internal affairs of Sri-Lanka ???

 

[Singh]

^^Phenom mate, please do not try and divide the members by adressing them only on the basis of race and ethnicity. It gives the impression that only Tamils are concerned about Tamil issues and Sikhs about 1984.

It is certainly not the case.

There is no similarity between the SL Tamil issue is foreigners in a sovereign country and the failure of the state to ensure safety and deliver justice to its own citizens aka Sikhs killed during 84 pogroms.

For anyone to suggest that somehow SL Tamil issue is of equal importance means that person is speaking from an emotive untenable PoV.

==

Hardly

I have yet to see how SL is a part of anti-India SinoPak axis. And you have not proven your position.

It is

One doesn't need a buffer state between India and Sri Lanka. India and SL are not enemies.

Rather it was a calculated maneuvre in the garb of morality. A good one though

you paraphrased what I said.

Letting Chicoms creep in on our borders and threaten us with war hardly counts as smart. 1962 war would have never happened if Tibet was an independent nation. Letting an unfriendly and hostile nation control our water supplies..hardly matters of no consequence.

I accede to your point.

Because you said that they are not of this country.

I am exercising my right to express my views. And that is one of the reason that forums exist.

===

Dude look at the past 10 pages of slugfest to see whether the posters are divided or not.

I don't think only the Sikhs care about 84, all Indians do, but it is mostly Tamils who care about SL Tamil issue. And frankly I don;t mind that, I understand why the rest of the states have less care about it than the people of TN. But What I don't want to see is people telling us, how we should behave in the 'national interest', and how TN is responsible for the deteriorating relation with SL and how TN should move on and so on.

If others don't feel our pain that's fine, but don't add salt to our wounds.

At the end of the day, you and I both have to realize that it is not enjoined on the Indian state to redress SL Tamils concerns. And whatever step it takes can have adverse impact on 1.2billion Indians.

==

 

[Singh]

What makes it unimportant for the Lankans Tamils to obtain justice ? LTTE( a la Khalistan) was the only terrorist organisation there, did you see anyone else taking up the arms there ?

Lankan tamils have a right to demand justice, but not from India.

Khalistan is not a terrorist organization fyi, it was a name floated for a separate Sikh homeland.

As Indians we stand against all injustice which is done to Indians irrespective of their clan or religion.
Why can't we as Tamils, ask the same for other Tamils ?

It is not enjoined upon the Indian state to give justice to the SL Tamils. You should and must demand justice for your fellow ethnic group.

Did the GoI weigh their Pro's and Cons when they started meddling with the internal affairs of Sri-Lanka ???

I believe they ought to have, in fact must've but it still backfired.

These blasted fellows don't even send the Navy when their own citizens are being killed. What is the use arguing about non-nationals ?

DABDA

Kübler-Ross model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

==

 

[Himanshu Pandey]

Hey from LTTE it came to justice demand for Sikhs and Tamils. yes they need justice but please don't fight here. you are not helping the couse

 

[SPIEZ]

Lankan tamils have a right to demand justice, but not from India.

Khalistan is not a terrorist organization fyi, it was a name floated for a separate Sikh homeland.

FYI, I don't care about the names of terrorist organisations I only pointed at their objectives. Why not India ? Doesn't India want a greater part at the world stage?

It is not enjoined upon the Indian state to give justice to the SL Tamils. You should and must demand justice for your fellow ethnic group.

Isn't it enjoined upon India to listen to what it's citizens say ?

I believe they ought to have, in fact must've but it still backfired.

We messed up, shouldn't we clean it ourselves or leave it to rot.

DABDA

Kübler-Ross model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

==

In what context does it apply to the civilians and citizens being killed ?

Also from what you say, one gets the point that the genocide in Lanka should in no way be stopped or even looked upon.

FYI, I had the opportunity to meet both Lankan Tamils and non-Tamils and have a larger view of what exactly is happening.

 

[Bhadra]

@ Tamil sympathisers here

I think I am more Sri Lankan Tamil sympathiser than you all. But India must see things rationally.

First of all, India has been Tamil Sympathise right from the days of problems of Plantation Tamil in Kandy just after independence more than the Tamils of Northern Sri Lanka themselves. India could also have been Sinhalese sympathiser since they also have roots in India. India conducted the first foreign military intervention in Southern Sri Lanka in 60s at the invitation of Sri Lankan Govt against hardliner Sinhlese of JVP types. IPKF operations was not the first one. LTTE went overboard by assassination of Indian PM. I do not how it can be acceptable to any Indian.

India is still committed to securing justifiable rights to Tamils under constitution of Sri Lanka.

India's problems of cross ethenic symaphies are numerious and unending. Let me start from a corner.
Myanmar has more populations of Nagas than India or may be less but very significant.
Chakmas of Tripura are divided both sides.

Assamese and Bengalies are are divided both sides.
Tibetian are also both sides of the border.
There is huge population of Napalese in the adjoining areas of India Nepal border as also those of Indians.
Ladhakies, Shia of Kargil and Kashmiries are divided lots.
Punjabies are divided.

Gujarati are divided across Northern Gujarat and Sindh with lots of Hindus being in Pakistani areas.

Maldives has Indian kind of Population.

under such a great divide, it is very difficult for govt to manage ethnic feelings at local level particularly when it become a vote bank issue.
Under such historical context and geographical artificiality, our Country must come first rather than ethnic feelings for those across the border. Manging issues like "Ram Chandra Pakistani" is good for making a movie but difficult to manage on ground.

Hence, Veer Thampies are requested not to get excited unless one is supporting "Akhand Bharat" wherein Sinhalese would also be included.

 

[Yusuf]

Sir, right from the start of this thread the LTTE was somehow dragged into picture. Now that the LTTE has been put into place what next for Sri-Lankan Tamils ?

None of our concern. At best we can lean upon th SL to ensure justice as well as equal rights. India should be more concerned about not letting China lap up SL. Try to reverse the losses made. All from Indian interests PoV.

 

[SPIEZ]

None of our concern. At best we can lean upon th SL to ensure justice as well as equal rights. India should be more concerned about not letting China lap up SL. Try to reverse the losses made. All from Indian interests PoV.

1) There are many who have relatives in Lanka and many Lankans are related to Indians.
eg: Popular actor and wanna be politician Vijay who has married a Sri-Lankan, Muralitharan who has married an Indian woman.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, Indians did have close relations with Lankans for a long time.
How do you think they ll react to your opinion on the genocide ?

2) We should in fact go ahead and start containing the Chinese. How difficult can it be on India's part to bargain with the safety of Lankan Tamils in the due process?

 

[hit&run]

Being a Hindu who cares for Hindus everywhere on this globe including SL Tamil Hindus, i wouldn't bet my money on headless idiots LTTE. Now the war is over and Tamils in SL are back to square one and are more oppressed than ever before. Now they should form an intelligent organization who can fight for their rights abiding by constitution of SL. If they can joint the main stream politics and can have their say in SL parliament, things would be more easier for India to have some leverage if SL Tamils would like to provide.
.
India can not win their war; if they want to go for it. Also we cannot bet on something which is naturally not assured i.e. if SL will become predominately a Tamil Hindu state then we will be having some unconditional advantage. Nepal is a Hindu state and how many issues we have of traction with them is a good example of it.
.
SL Tamils are simply unlucky given the fact they were not able to get the kind of support they needed from India because of type of politics Indians do. Has India missed the bus by not supporting LTTE or SL Tamils? I would say no because LTTE was doomed to parish given GoSL benefiting from global reluctance against supporting terrorist. If it wasn't GoI then anyone else could have provided them the requisite help to curb LTTE. At least now we have some say to vow for good, intelligent SL Tamil Hindus who i am sure will revive and be the part of mainstream. In Punjabi there is a saying ''sara janda vekhiyea adha dayea vand'' when we see we are going to lose everything, distribute half of it before. Our case/relationship with SL has not gone totally down in the drain, i would rather say its far more better than Nepal. We can start afresh from that and can constructively help SL Tamils using our diplomatic soft and hard power.

 

[Yusuf]

1) There are many who have relatives in Lanka and many Lankans are related to Indians.
eg: Popular actor and wanna be politician Vijay who has married a Sri-Lankan, Muralitharan who has married an Indian woman.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, Indians did have close relations with Lankans for a long time.
How do you think they ll react to your opinion on the genocide ?

2) We should in fact go ahead and start containing the Chinese. How difficult can it be on India's part to bargain with the safety of Lankan Tamils in the due process?

It's not Indian State's problem if someone marries a Sri Lankan or an African or American. If that is the case we will have a lot on our plate. We will keep making relatives through marriages and start demanding rights all over if those "relatives" are under oppression.

Bhadra has made a good post earlier.

 

[SPIEZ]

^^^You missed my point, leave out the marriage part.

Would you allow the same thing to happen to your relatives ?

 

[SPIEZ]

1) We don't have to be Hindu to support a cause. We have to be humane.

2) We don't have to have an ulterior motive like "Akhand Bharat" to support innocent people.

 

[Yusuf]

^^^You missed my point, leave out the marriage part.

Would you allow the same thing to happen to your relatives ?

What relatives are you talking about? Muralidharan marrying an Indian means India should take over bis troubles?

Let me tell you like this. When partition happened, people made their choices. I forget the name of the Indian General who chose to stay with India while his brother went the other side.

If you have any relative under oppression, get him over to India and seek political asylum.

 

[Yusuf]

1) We don't have to be Hindu to support a cause. We have to be humane.

2) We don't have to have an ulterior motive like "Akhand Bharat" to support innocent people.

We need to be humane by supporting the likes of LTTE?
We can adopt other means. There are a lot of ethnic conflicts going on all over the world. All we can do is "try" to make sure and assist in a settlement of the conflict.

 

[SPIEZ]

What relatives are you talking about? Muralidharan marrying an Indian means India should take over bis troubles?

Let me tell you like this. When partition happened, people made their choices. I forget the name of the Indian General who chose to stay with India while his brother went the other side.

If you have any relative under oppression, get him over to India and seek political asylum.

You still didn't answer my question, if it were your relatives, forget Murali and the others, would you have said the same ?

From the posts here I get the view that

1) We care more about our enemies than our friends

2) We don't really want to support innocent people, but we want a larger part in the global stage add to it the UNSC seat.

3) We need to have some ulterior motive to help someone.

i rest my case here.