India, Vietnam, Brahmos and SCS: Sucker Punch #MadeInIndia!

Discussion in 'Indo Pacific & East Asia' started by Ind4Ever, Jun 23, 2015.

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Time to export Brahmos to SCS Countries? India,Vietnam,Brahmos and SCS : Sucker Punch #MadeInIndia?

  1. Yes

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  2. No

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  1. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever Regular Member

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    South China Sea !!! The region is most favored for starting world war 3 by most of the defence analysts arround the world. Due to in secured and expansionist China the pressure mounting on its smaller neighbors to join hands to give massive punch in-case of any Chinese mischief in the region. I came across very interesting article on WANT CHINA TIMES which said "Vietnam special forces prep for S China Sea action: media"

    If true then its an very interesting days ahead for India to play the host in containing Chinese Navy in the region and containing china with in SCS region. Before i go further i like you to read this article given below :SOURCE: WANT CHINA TIMES

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    To stop China’s land reclamation activities in the disputed South China Sea, the Vietnamese military is preparing to attack the Chinese facilities in the region with special forces, according to Moscow-based Kommersant.

    As military exercises held by the Vietnamese military since 2004 have shown, the People’s Air Force of Vietnam’s Su-22 tactical bomber will be used to launch the first strike against maritime targets with AS-10 air-to-surface missiles. At the same time, the Su-30 fighter is likely to provide cover for the Su-22 bombers during the strike. The bomber can attack the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s vessels from an attitude of 2,500 to 3,000 meters.

    Next, the People’s Navy of Vietnam will carry out an amphibious landing against the islands and reefs currently under Chinese occupation. The landing vessels are to be covered by aircraft, torpedo boats and corvettes. The Beijing-based Sina Military Network reports that the Vietnamese Navy’s four Tarantul-class corvettes are equipped with Russian-built Kh-35 anti-ship missiles which are extremely dangerous for PLA surface combat vessels.

    Vietnam is just the second nation in the world to have Kh-35 anti-ship missiles. It has an attacking range of 130 kilometers.

    After that, Vietnamese special forces will initiate attacks against targets including merchant ships, supply vessels, radar stations, ports and storage areas on smaller islands or reefs with fewer Chinese troops stationed there. A Vietnamese special operations team has between three and five military personnel per unit, the Kommersant said.
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    SO its very clear Vietnam placed their best bets on Kh-35 anti-ship missiles. It has an attacking range of 130 kilometers.The Kh-35 designated as AS-20 by NATO is an anti-ship cruise missile.At speed of
    1,080 km/h this missile has sent deep shock and Awe into PLAN's strategy . But things get more interesting when India steps in and equip Vietnam with world's most powerful super sonic cruise missile THE BRAHMOS !!!

    Why Brahmos is the Brahmastra against PLAN ?

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    (Pic)INS Kolkata carries 16 BrahMos and 32 Barak-8

    Brahmos is the fastest low-altitude missile in the world. The missile has two stages: the first, consisting of a solid-fuel rocket, accelerates Brahmos to supersonic speeds. The second stage, a liquid-fueled ramjet, accelerates it to Mach 2.8. The missile reportedly flies as low 10 meters above wavetops, making it what’s known as a “sea skimmer”. It has a range of about 290 kilometers.


    The missile is extremely versatile, capable of being carried by surface ships, land-based anti-ship missile batteries, and aircraft such as the Indian Air Force’s Su-30MK1. The air-launched version has a longer range of 500 kilometers. A submarine-based version is under consideration but has not been developed due to lack of interest.


    Brahmos packs a considerable punch: land and ship-based versions are armed with a 200 kilogram warhead, while the aircraft version has a 300 kilogram warhead. Even without a warhead, at Mach 2.8 Brahmos would impart tremendous kinetic energy on its target.


    Brahmos uses its high speed, stealthy design, and sea-skimming capability to evade enemy air defenses. The missile’s speed of Mach 2.8 translates to 952 meters per second. Assuming the defender’s radar is mounted at a height of 20 meters, Brahmos will be detected at a range of 27 kilometers. This leaves the defender with just 28 seconds to track, illuminate and shoot down Brahmos before it impacts the ship.


    Since our Brahmos missiles follow high, medium or low altitude flight profiles, detection time varies. A high-flying missile can be easily detected from a long distance ( around 50-100 km away) and measures can be taken to counter it. A low flying missile flies at 5-10 m above sea level which prevents detection till the missile approaches the radar horizon which is about 30 km away from a ship. This gives the targeted ship, very less time to react and if the missile is supersonic, then the time allotted for reaction is a mere 20-40 seconds compared to 60-120 seconds for a subsonic missile. Hence these missiles must be detected as early as possible and destroyed and far from the targeted ship as possible.


    The main advantages of BrahMos are

    • Mach 3 (2500-3000 km/hr) speed (which makes it very difficult to detect and track)
    • 300 kg Semi-Armor piercing warhead (which causes massive damage upon impact)
    • Very high kinetic energy on impact (which disintegrates smaller ships and cripples larger ones)
    • S-manoeuver just a few seconds before impact (which makes interception very difficult)
    • 300 km range in Hi-Lo altitude profile
    • 400+ km range in Hi-altitude profile
    • No wings (makes it harder to shoot down as winged missiles plunge into water after suffering wing damage)

    BrahMos is impossible to shoot down. This is mainly due to the fact that NATO missile defense systems were prepared to handle Mach 1-1.5 speed Anti-Ship missiles which Russia possessed during the Cold War. But after the Mach 2-3 speed Onyx/BrahMos was developed, it surprised the western world and it is unknown what specific measures have been taken to handle this supersonic threat.

    So its literally impossible to detect this missile before its too late . The response time to lock and destroy it will be like 20 -28 sec with powerful AESA Radar mounted(20 mt above sea-line) on Chinese New Destroyers.

    According to a report in India’s Deccan Herald, citing comments made by a senior Indian diplomat, talks for the sale of the joint Russia-India-developed BrahMos supersonic cruise missile platform to Vietnam are in an “advanced stage.” Vietnam first expressed interest in acquiring in the platform in 2011. The decision to sell these cruise missiles to Vietnam will require approval from both the Indian and Russian governments.

    According to The Asian Age, Vietnam was already deemed to be a “friendly country” according to a joint Indo-Russian supervisory council in 2011, allowing formal negotiations to move forward in the first place. In late 2013, Nguyen Phu Trong, the general secretary of the Vietnam Communist Party, proposed formal negotiations during his visit to New Delhi. While the fact that India and Vietnam have been talks over the BrahMos has been known for some time, the latest reports suggest that a deal may come to fruition sooner rather than later.

    The previous UPA government had refused to sell military hardware to Vietnam. The question that confronts the Narendra Modi-led NDA government now is whether it would bite the bullet. And it must . India should take this fight with proxies to the Chinese doorsteps like they have been doing with India till today. Vietnam with very similar platforms of Indian Armed Forces can make great use of Indian war tactics especially in Air and Naval warfare . From sukois to Kilos , Brahmos will play a huge role in destroying the core of Chinese strategy.

    Vietnam is interested in buying Off-Shore Patrol (OPVs) vessels from India too. It is understood Vietnam wants four OPVs, which would be used to police the South China Seas.

    India is already training the Vietnam Navy personnel in - among other things - operating the Russian-origin Kilo-class submarine. So far it has trained over 500 personnel of the Vietnamese Navy. But Hanoi wants more. So lets give them. Its our morale duty to give befitting reply to enemies in their own language. Our defense soft loan to SCS countries is like investing in our own armed forces.Chinese have understood this logic hence we see free cash thrown on Pakistan navy and other armed forces . Yes we have do more in terms of exports but first we need to find stop gap solution on what we can offer. Best deal could be this very missile .

    Acquisition of the BrahMos would be a significant strategic coup for Vietnam. It would primarily serve to bolster its credible deterrence against China. As the crisis earlier this year involving China’s oil rig Haiyang Shiyou 981 (HYSY 981) demonstrated, Vietnam remains ill-equipped to deter China from exerting administrative control over disputed waters. The BrahMos acquisition would represent a second peg in Vietnam’s asymmetric deterrence strategy, the first being its acquisition of six Russian improved Kilo-class submarines. The supersonic missiles would allow Vietnam to threaten any naval assets that China may choose to use in the future against Vietnamese interests.

    The BrahMos is considered to be one of the most formidable cruise missiles to ever exist. It is the fastest operational cruise missile, capable of operating at Mach 3.0 speeds. In addition to Vietnam, the Indian government is
    Acquisition of the BrahMos would be a significant strategic coup for Vietnam. It would primarily serve to bolster its credible deterrence against China. As the crisis earlier this year involving China’s oil rig Haiyang Shiyou 981 (HYSY 981) demonstrated, Vietnam remains ill-equipped to deter China from exerting administrative control over disputed waters. The BrahMos acquisition would represent a second peg in Vietnam’s asymmetric deterrence strategy, the first being its acquisition of six Russian improved Kilo-class submarines. The supersonic missiles would allow Vietnam to threaten any naval assets that China may choose to use in the future against Vietnamese interests.

    The BrahMos is considered to be one of the most formidable cruise missiles to ever exist. It is the fastest operational cruise missile, capable of operating at Mach 3.0 speeds. In addition to Vietnam, the Indian government is considering exporting the BrahMos to several other states. According to the CEO of BrahMos Aerospace, the key condition for countries being allowed to import the missile is that they are fundamentally “friendly to both India and Russia.”
    to several other states. According to the CEO of BrahMos Aerospace, the key condition for countries being allowed to import the missile is that they are fundamentally “friendly to both India and Russia.

    So yes India,Vietnam,Brahmos and SCS : Sucker Punch #MadeInIndia !
     
    Lions Of Punjab and Srinivas_K like this.
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  3. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Funny thing is: the similar weapons has been in Russia's warehouse for years but Vietnamese never thought about asking them from Russian friend with a cheaper price and better quality.
    Why?
    Maybe because Brahmos is neiter formidable as Indians believe, nor a effective weapon against Chinese.
     
  4. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    It is a useless weapon but good enough to burn Chini ass on internet.
     
  5. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    LOL... it seems a little ill-informed and ignorant again...
    some people are still enjoy the funny thoughts about the so called super/ultimate weapon ,which is really naive indeed....
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    Vietnam NO.681 unit with K-300P mobile coastal defence missile system...

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    and Indonesia Navy's P800 system

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  6. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever Regular Member

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    May i know why one of the most powerfull cruise missile is been taunted as Not So Good Weapon' ???

    may i know the reason ? oh may be because its with India ?
     
  7. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever Regular Member

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    And why do you think Vietnam asking for Brahmos ?
     
  8. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    LOL...

    1.first, I don't think anything...that's just another rubbish article from so called WantChina source.. once again ,we appreciate the facts not the surmises...

    2.if Vietnam have something bigger than her current several Corvettes, VN might choose the P800 system for her new bigger vessels...however P800 is not something secret to us which has been touched since the Soviet Union collapsed ...

    3. so called Invincible super sonic Anti-ship missile has its limits/disadvantage as well...your senior members have known and mentioned that... some kids could learn a little more and think over it...once again, the modern combat is the conflict between systems...any Weakness of sub-system would limit the might and efficiency of the whole system...

    4. ... SSM actually has a low survival rates against the modern shipborne AD systems (hard and soft kill)... and when Super sonic Anti-ship missile came to the stage as the new threat ,PLAN just upgraded the LR, MR-SAM and CIWS a little along with the much faster developed NextGen soft defense system...BTW PLAN has operated the super sonic Anti-ship missile (super sonic during the whole journey at low altitude ) for two decades and we also think that's really not big deal.
     

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