India to select one or more fighter aircraft to be built by private sector

Yodha

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This Frenchie, SajeevJino seems to have a complex. Or is he like many others in his little kingdom who are pissed off at India for not buying their Rafale, the second costliest operational fighter aircraft in the world after the F-22?

By the way, why is my undie called a Frenchie? :confused1:[emoji38]:tongue:
Because they are the 2nd best undies in the world after CK.

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sasum

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This Frenchie, SajeevJino seems to have a complex. Or is he like many others in his little kingdom who are pissed off at India for not buying their Rafale, the second costliest operational fighter aircraft in the world after the F-22?

By the way, why is my undie called a Frenchie? :confused1: :lol: :tongue:
@SajeevJino is very much native indian though he may not be hindu by religion:biggrin2:
 

BON PLAN

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And the SU-35 too! No mention of this top-of-the-line aircraft. We already have the basic infrastructure for the SUs. Thus overall, it'll be cheaper over its life cycle. In other words, we'll have a very cost effective weapons platform with cutting edge technology.

Cutting edge technology?
It's a late child of SU27.
Engine are all but top world class
Radar? operational? Not sure.
 

Bahamut

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Cutting edge technology?
It's a late child of SU27.
Engine are all but top world class
Radar? operational? Not sure.
The radar is a PESR but will be upgraded to AESR but in terms of power ,only F 22 Radar matches it .Range is close to 350-400 km.
 

SajeevJino

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What did the MRCA originate as? IT was actually a simple order that IAF wanted as 126 Mirage 2000-5 to replace MiG-21 !!! During Kargil Mirage 2000 impressed IAF (which easily gets impressed somewhat like how Congress is impressed when Rahul Gandhi talks) So what exactly was the requirement in your views? That time there was no mention of Medium etc. IAF just wanted to replace MiGs with French imports Thus and let me point here A SINGLE SEAT AIR INTERCEPTOR. like MiG was to be replaced by another single seat, single engine plane that could handle other roles also. This was done because on other hand, IAF did not want Tejas and was doing everything to scuttle the project. When GoI asked it to make it RFP since what Mirage was available 2000-5 was different version than what IAF had and so, it could not be taken as follow on order.
When RFP was issued there were many heavy hitters and Mirage 2000 was easily the weakest of the lot. So Dassault changed the entry to Rafale. Then some "wise" chair marshalls (who we can now understand were heavily influenced) did favour Rafale, and thus they put the "medium" on the category by putting weight restriction to ensure that RUSSIA DOES NOT ENTER WITH SU-30 OR SU-35
IAF already uses one of the planes and knew that this plane might actually be the runaway winner and thus Rafale would have no chance whatsoever. And if you see how the process went, They ensured that the cheaper planes were eliminated first, and the EF and Rafale were finalists. And then the nos were manipulated in favour of Rafale to get it L1. CNC is on record that the Dassault had submitted incomplete bid, and that NAK browne did give CNC the details which were assumed. This is very much like going to exams and leaving the answer sheet blank, and later after the exams given the chance to write the answer sheet at your own convenience..

What actually the IAF want back in the 90s is Mirage 2000.. IAF did looked and eagered to get a licence production of Mirages, what the Government did in the game. Bought lesser number of Mirage and MiG 29 to seduce the Russians


After Kargil IAF again asks the Mirages for Multi role support, they did drafted a RFP for MRCA based on Mirage 2000,

Some mole infiltrated again and freezes the RFP .. the same again running still now
 

SajeevJino

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This Frenchie, SajeevJino seems to have a complex. Or is he like many others in his little kingdom who are pissed off at India for not buying their Rafale, the second costliest operational fighter aircraft in the world after the F-22?

By the way, why is my undie called a Frenchie? :confused1: :lol: :tongue:
Awesome dear... You're a genius
 

Bahamut

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PESR...... very cutting tech !!!
350km ? against à B52 ?
350 km is for standard fighter type about 1-5m^2
PESR is a old one but if the customer wants a AESR can be installed .Plus it high jamming capability with good opto electronics and good payload/range factor.
 

HariPrasad-1

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Cutting edge technology?
It's a late child of SU27.
Engine are all but top world class
Radar? operational? Not sure.
So what?

Engines are very powerful and plane can go upto mach 2.25+. It can maneuver like no other plane in the world. RADAR is also top class. Much better EW. Low RCS. No other plane in the world can beat SU 35 in close combat.
 

SajeevJino

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So what?

Engines are very powerful and plane can go upto mach 2.25+. It can maneuver like no other plane in the world. RADAR is also top class. Much better EW. Low RCS. No other plane in the world can beat SU 35 in close combat.
Hmm .. Looks you just provide the advertising contents of Su 35

The speed will do nothing in the CAS and ground attack
CAS or MRCA won't need to enter dog fighting zone, hope you understand why everyone in the world developing long range BVR's
Radar, Rafale's Radar is more than enough to perform CAS even in dense battlefield
Better EW, you sure the Russian EW is good, West developed far better EW than Russians

Low RCS ..he he

Who will face the Su 35 in close combat, the one who picks up the Su 35 and launch its BVR from safe distance
 

HariPrasad-1

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Hmm .. Looks you just provide the advertising contents of Su 35
yes in the same way you are provided the contract of rafale.

Let me educate you. In last exercise in Britain, MKis were pitted against Eurofighters and emerged as the conclusive winners in all scenarios of encounters.

Yes, recently, russia has made a very good progress in EW. It may not be as good as Spectra and but Su 35 has a very nice EW suite. It has new more powerful modified engine. It has a lot lower RCS than MKI. When Indian airforce is happy with MKI, Certainly they will be more than pleased with SU 35, Never underestimate any russian plane. Yes even Mig 29K can mess with any other plane.
 

smestarz

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French are only aware of whats there in France, they are not aware of what is happening in rest of the world.
Su-35 is operational along with IRBIS-E
Russians know how to use technology, and they build in whatever they use or need. France seems to be in habit of saying "oh we are capable of having that but we dont need it ... " so why the hell make it? Lot of idle time at the factories??

Cutting edge technology?
It's a late child of SU27.
Engine are all but top world class
Radar? operational? Not sure.
 

smestarz

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Now you are right on the money except few things

A) Decision to buy Mirage 2000 was taken by Congress MP and then son of prime minister, Mr. Rajiv Gandhi.
Was it his portfolio ? so how exactly a person who is not the PM or Defence minister orders Mirage 2000? ad importantly Why? As I said I have my doubts.

But then Venkatraman who was the defence minister and had gone to Russia concluded the order of MiG-29 and nos of Mirage 2000 was cut.

IAF top brass is a myopic, they do not really understand the present or the future, they are fighting the past wars. Even during the Kargil war the world was looking for MRCA. Ameica had MRCA in F-16 but yet it wanted to have F-15 Eagle because it wanted specilised forces to carry out Air dominance and Strike. Even when they asked for Mirage 2000 upgrade, they are myopic as they did not insist on AESA, As I understand an Israeli company has offered AESA for Mirage 2000 and also Tejas. So why IAF which felt that AESA is very important and for that reason also is holding up Tejas does not want an AESA for Mirage 2000 which they treat as a premium plane?
An Israeli company was ready to upgrade Mirage 2000 also with an AESA and at far lesser price than Dassault.

But do you know that during the time when Kargil operation was going on Mirage 2000 line was already ready to close. The Rafale production was on for few years already then.


What actually the IAF want back in the 90s is Mirage 2000.. IAF did looked and eagered to get a licence production of Mirages, what the Government did in the game. Bought lesser number of Mirage and MiG 29 to seduce the Russians


After Kargil IAF again asks the Mirages for Multi role support, they did drafted a RFP for MRCA based on Mirage 2000,

Some mole infiltrated again and freezes the RFP .. the same again running still now
 

smestarz

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He did give the advertising content of Su-35 but no one complains when you do that about Rafale, do wel?

CAS is changing, now CAS is no longer about flying slow and low, those times are gone and if an air force still feels thats how CAS is to be done then they are outdated. CAS has always been about supporting the ground troops and putting bombs and missiles to prevent enemy from achieving breakthrough or to break the enemy positions and destroy them so that the friendly forces do not counter opposition, This when done at company level is considered as CAS. Why does a plane need to fly slow and low when it can drop a bomb from few thousand feet accurate with CEP of just 1 metre or less. is that not CAS? In future, a plane will be expected to conduct many roles, like Do CAS, destroy a few tanks and then take position to ensure air superiority so that the enemy air assets do not intervene. Some of the planes could also be armed with ARM or two, which ensures that any enemy Radar that wakes up, is put to sleep

Russian EW is quite good and we know what its capable of, it is not exaggerated like SPECTRA which is being marketed by Rafale fan boys as something it is not. IF SPECTRA is so wonderful and that when Rafale is not emiting its Stealth, why does Rafale need an expensive AESA radar? I mean would they not look stupid to have a radar that would be emiting and giving up its position? Why take that chance? As the french would say, ".. we dont really need it .... "

BTW Photonic radar, the Russians are talking of making it operational in 2018, where is the West with it? Still with AESA? Thats called Quantum jump.

Which plane except F-22 can take on Su-35? Rafale?? haha, Rafale cannot take it either in BVR or WVR,. The moment people talk of Su-35/Su-30 MKI vs rafale, Rafale fanboys talk of different weight class and not capabilities, And by the way one Indo French exercise in India last year, Rafale had met the similar fate as Eurofighters.in UK and that too when Su-30 MKI flew with serious disadvantages (without to use R-77)


QUOTE="SajeevJino, post: 1169813, member: 10551"]Hmm .. Looks you just provide the advertising contents of Su 35

The speed will do nothing in the CAS and ground attack
CAS or MRCA won't need to enter dog fighting zone, hope you understand why everyone in the world developing long range BVR's
Radar, Rafale's Radar is more than enough to perform CAS even in dense battlefield
Better EW, you sure the Russian EW is good, West developed far better EW than Russians

Low RCS ..he he

Who will face the Su 35 in close combat, the one who picks up the Su 35 and launch its BVR from safe distance[/QUOTE]
 

BON PLAN

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350 km is for standard fighter type about 1-5m^2
PESR is a old one but if the customer wants a AESR can be installed .Plus it high jamming capability with good opto electronics and good payload/range factor.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.




350 ? .... oups! no, sorry, only 300 km = target RCS of 10m² !!!!
 

BON PLAN

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So what?

Engines are very powerful and plane can go upto mach 2.25+. It can maneuver like no other plane in the world. RADAR is also top class. Much better EW. Low RCS. No other plane in the world can beat SU 35 in close combat.
Sure. If you say so, we are obliged to be OK .....

Radar = PESA. 15 years technology.
Much better EW ? versus what?
Low RCS ? just have a look to the plane : it's a past/copy of SU27 which is not knowed as stealthy.
Opto electronic? Yes, a very bad surprise for NATO country when they tried ex RDA Mig 29. 30 years ago. But now every west system is better. A proof? Even for their main battle tank russian forces use west systems.
 

BON PLAN

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IF SPECTRA is so wonderful and that when Rafale is not emiting its Stealth, why does Rafale need an expensive AESA radar?
Are you so stupid?
If the opponent doesn't open it's own radar, and without AWACS or ground radar, or inside the opto systeme range (limited to +/- 50km) how do you think a Rafale or any other fighter can find its target and calculate a fire solution at medium/long range ?
 

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