India To Pull Thousands of Troops From Kashmir

[Tshering22]

Great! Now we are about to lose Kashmir. First, Afghanistan, then Pakistan, then Bangladesh and now Kashmir. Perfect.

Expect another Kargil soon. Now we have Pakistan, China and Sri Lanka prodding us and instead of become more aggressive, we are cowering worse than ever.

 

[ejazr]

^^^This is not cowering, the security forces are being moved away from population areas only. The duties will be taken up by the local police and that is why you have 10 batallions ready with anti-riot gear and training. The border areas are not seeing any reduction in forces.
My guess would be that militancy will continue to stay at 20 year lows as it has for most of the last year. And if any riot like situation takes place like last summer, the police will be better trained to tackle the crowds rather than just shoot to disperse.

And also if you notice it is the Home ministry making the statement not Defence.

So this will be to do with CRPF mainly and possibly the police. Not with the Army itself which comes under Defence ministry purview and is not deployed in populated areas in any case.

 

[pmaitra]

I agree with gogbot here. Militant violence is at 20 year lows, there is no sense to have the same force levels in place during the time of the insurgency peak like in the 1990s. The troops should be redeployed smartly with a focus on the border regions to prevent infiltrations.

Using troops to tackle rioters is over kill. The local police should have a dedicated riot sqaud to tackle such situations and be prepared with the best available equipment rather than just bamboo shields and TATA Sumos.

If there is any need to spend money on security that this is it. Around 10-15 riot squal that can be moved or even air lifted whereever needed.

I would agree with that. India is not withdrawing all troops. India is only cutting down the troop level. Militant violence has drastically gone down and militants have lost considerable local support. Handling stone pelters can be done using water cannons, teargas shells and rubber bullets and not by using live bullets. This way we can avoid deaths. Simultaneously, GoI should be strict with trouble makers like Gilani and Arundhati Roy.

This is yet another opportunity for GoI and the Omar Abdullah government to win the confidence of the people. If necessary, Farooq Abdullah can be made the CM and Omar can be shifted to Delhi for some ministry in GoI. IMHO, he needs more time to mature to handle J&K.

 

[Oracle]

We don't feel need to cut down forces in J&K: Gen V K Singh

NEW DELHI: Even as home secretary G K Pillai hinted at reducing 25 per cent reduction in security forces' strength in Jammu and Kashmir, Army Chief General V K Singh today said they did not feel the need to "cut down" their forces in the state.

He also said it will be ensured that "extra pressure" is not put on his "already-stretched" deployments.

"We have not yet felt that we have to cut down our forces. If they want to cut down para-military and police forces, I won't say anything...

"So when that is done, it will be ensured that extra pressure is not brought on our already-stretched deployments there," Singh told a press conference on the eve of Army Day.

Maintaining that Army was not aware of any troop reduction plans, the Army chief said he was sure that any step in this direction would be taken in consultation with the Unified Command headquarters operating in the state.

The security forces operating in the state work under a Unified Command, which is headed by the State Chief Minister.

He was responding to a question on Pillai's statement and whether the Army felt that the situation had improved to an extent the that the troops' presence could be reduced.

Declining to make any direct comments on Pillai's remarks, Singh said the Army had deployed its troops in the state as per the requirements on the Line of Control and other areas.

"Same way in the hinterland, some Army columns are deployed to maintain peace and counter terrorism. We have not yet felt that we have cut to down our forces. If they want to cut down paramilitary or police forces, I won't say anything," he added.

Singh said security forces in the state included the police, paramilitary and the Army and probably only those people, who are considered to be dispensable, would be taken out of the state.

When asked if the Army would agree with the demand for repealing the controversial Armed Forces Special Powers Act ( AFSPA) from some parts of the State, Singh said, "you know the views of the Army in this regard. The issue is already before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and I would not like to say anything further."

The Army chief said after putting in a lot of effort and creating anti-terrorism obstacles in place, the security forces have been able to check infiltration to a large extent.

"As per the data of the Multi Agency Centre (MAC), there were 468 infiltration attempts in the state in 2010 out of which only 95 could be successful and 40 terrorists were killed there," Singh said.

Answering another query, the Army chief said that the Army would not allow the sacrifices made by its troops to go waste and allow terrorists to gain hold in areas which were previously cleansed by the security forces.

He said in different counter-insurgency operations in both the Northeast and J&K, the Indian Army lost 15 officers, 13 Junior Commissioned Officers and 159 jawans.

Source

 

[vishal_lionheart]

30,000 troops withdrawn. How does it benefit us?
Is it the Indian Army that kills innocents in Kashmir? - No
Is it the Indian Army which is creating unrest in Kashmir? - No
Is it the Indian Army which maintains peace and harmony in Kashmir? - Yes

Please visit the Kashmir, see the real picture, why thousands of youth take stones in Hand? Why Indian flags were burning? How the innocent people are missing? how the beauty of kashmir exploite by Indian forces? How the Army officers taking false medals by killing innocent civilians? How young kashmiri women are raped by Indian security forces?
How educational institution are used by Security forces? Where crores of Financial aid gone? and Why People want freedom from India? No development since Indian independence and one family rule the whole kashmir.
Election in kashmir are also fake. The culprit cheat the world

 

[S.A.T.A]

We don't feel need to cut down forces in J&K: Gen V K Singh

Who the heck is he to tell the govt not to cut down the troops level in Kashmir,whats his credentials to make this kind of call,is he more smarter than Omar Abdullah,or is he eminently more qualified than Chidambaram,to asses the security situation Kashmir.If he had such an expertise why is he not the Kashmir panel,comprised of blazing intellectuals of rare brilliance who are currently ceased with resolving Kashmir's political crisis once and for all.

The good General is advised to spend his time on more useful pursuits,like issue briefings of Chinese border violations,and leave such challenging tasks like Kashmir to more abler hands.

 

[Tshering22]

Please visit the Kashmir, see the real picture, why thousands of youth take stones in Hand?

Because of these terrorists and brainwashed shitheads, my relatives were exterminated out of the valley and forced into Ladakh. Thousands of youth my foot. This is what the bigoted rights groups and Pakistanis groups want to make peaceniks like you believe. Where was you holier than thou conscience when these fundamentalist jihadis were raping and killing non-Muslim Kashmiri women and massacring the valley? Gone to feed on grass?

Why Indian flags were burning? How the innocent people are missing? how the beauty of kashmir exploite by Indian forces?

Indian flags were burning because stone pelters and flag burners get paid Rs. 400 for doing this shit. Innocent people my ***. Don't blame the entire Army for a few rotten apples. What kind of an Indian are you? Beauty of Kashmir was destroyed the day Islamists massacred and kicked everyone out and starting crying for "independence". Democracy is not a free ticket to separatism and anarchy. Don't you know?

How the Army officers taking false medals by killing innocent civilians? How young kashmiri women are raped by Indian security forces?

96% cases are reported false. My cousin has been there on duty at times as a part of the forces. The "reports" are often rapes by jihadis and those women are threatened and told to blame the Army and counter terrorist forces so that they gain sympathy of the world and give India a bad name. Please don't go on such biased reports. If we were indeed that ruthless and smart, there would be no freedom of press like China in Tibet. This itself proves how bigoted rights groups are for blaming entire Army.

Indian Army severely punishes a few rotten apples and this has been proven. Go and see in other countries what is done with terrorists and their supporters. The separatists are barely 1 lakh people in entire valley. Do your mathematics and see how much of Kashmiris are they.

How educational institution are used by Security forces? Where crores of Financial aid gone? and Why People want freedom from India? No development since Indian independence and one family rule the whole kashmir.

BULLCRAP. Kashmir's GDP is more than pre Nitish Bihar and Northeast. Do Biharis and we NE people demand separatism from India because of this? No. And BTW do ponder why Shias, Sikhs/Pandits/Buddhists don't want separatism and why is it only these jihadi type screaming and threatening half the state to support them. Any ideas why, O great enlightened one?

Election in kashmir are also fake. The culprit cheat the world.

You sarcastic or real? :S

 

[Tshering22]

Who the heck is he to tell the govt not to cut down the troops level in Kashmir,whats his credentials to make this kind of call,is he more smarter than Omar Abdullah,or is he eminently more qualified than Chidambaram,to asses the security situation Kashmir.If he had such an expertise why is he not the Kashmir panel,comprised of blazing intellectuals of rare brilliance who are currently ceased with resolving Kashmir's political crisis once and for all.

The good General is advised to spend his time on more useful pursuits,like issue briefings of Chinese border violations,and leave such challenging tasks like Kashmir to more abler hands.

He is the Chief of Army Staff who has more knowledge of on-ground situation than any other idiotic politician. He has been the commander of Eastern command and knows how volatile Kashmir is on the ground. General Singh's statement is far more credible than any effing politicians' who so far only wants to issue statements to win votes or get pats from radical lunatics in our country.

LOL! Chidambaram is qualified from Harvard's in the field of finance. What credibility or qualification does he have for homeland defence? Just that he is appointed by Sonia madam? Please tell me.

Army cannot be a part of a political panel because IA does not have a political say in our country. The intellectuals that you so praise are a bunch of klutz who are pandering to separatist demands more than concerning the national integrity of the country.

Is this common sense or what! Who would know more? A bunch of corrupt losers sitting in AC rooms in Delhi, who had 60 years of bloody time to decide the fate of a province but still continue doing their shit politics or a General who gets regular updates from his troops on day to day basis of what is happening in each region?

I am surprised you are talking like this especially when after so many decades, we have a Chief who has the balls to challenge the Con-party's disastrous decisions.

 

[Oracle]

Please visit the Kashmir, see the real picture, why thousands of youth take stones in Hand? Why Indian flags were burning? How the innocent people are missing? how the beauty of kashmir exploite by Indian forces? How the Army officers taking false medals by killing innocent civilians? How young kashmiri women are raped by Indian security forces?
How educational institution are used by Security forces? Where crores of Financial aid gone? and Why People want freedom from India? No development since Indian independence and one family rule the whole kashmir.
Election in kashmir are also fake. The culprit cheat the world

You seem stoned. You OK buddy? You also seem Pakistanized!

 

[Tshering22]

^^ LOL! I was wondering that... I think this needs a mod alert here.

 

[S.A.T.A]

@Tshering22

You obviously aren't an alumni of S.A.T.A's school of dumb political Satire.......

 

[Tshering22]

@Tshering22

You obviously aren't an alumni of S.A.T.A's school of dumb political Satire.......

HAHAHAH! Sorry mate. I couldn't get the sarcasm. . Although I wonder whether Vishal is talking in the same sense. The absence of emoticons made it look serious. LOL

 

[Tshering22]

^^^This is not cowering, the security forces are being moved away from population areas only. The duties will be taken up by the local police and that is why you have 10 batallions ready with anti-riot gear and training. The border areas are not seeing any reduction in forces.

You see that's the issue. It is almost always populated areas where the insurgents and terrorists mingle and blend with the commoners and create nuisance for the forces. I know that Army is not meant for keeping civil calm but when one is attached to Pakistan with 21 years of terrorism, anything is possible.

My guess would be that militancy will continue to stay at 20 year lows as it has for most of the last year. And if any riot like situation takes place like last summer, the police will be better trained to tackle the crowds rather than just shoot to disperse.

The only reason why terrorism has reduced recently is because their masters are right now getting bitten rearwards lol. But unless and until terror infrastructure in neighbourhood collapses, I am of the idea that Army should stick its guns there or at least as close as possible to populated areas.

And also if you notice it is the Home ministry making the statement not Defence.

That's the main worry. A Home Ministry where a Finance and revenues expert is the in-charge rather than a defence guy or at least a strategic analyst level person .

 

[Oracle]

Ejaz & Gogbot - How does troop reduction help normalize the situation in J&K? I very well understand it is the State Polices' job to maintain law & order. But was not this very J&K Police ineffective some months back and did Omar Abdullah himself not call on the Indian Army to do flag march through the streets of Kashmir?

The Army is called in times of emergency in such situations, else they go to their barracks. OR are posted somewhere else. Instead of cutting down troops, GoI should train J&K police on how to effectively handle riot situations. I do not support withdrawal because GoI instead of taking a hard stand are doing things which are completely unnecessary. Instead, GoI should use an iron fist while dealing with the unrest in Kashmir and it's instigators. To hell with everything else!

 

[SHASH2K2]

I am surprised you are talking like this especially when after so many decades, we have a Chief who has the balls to challenge the Con-party's disastrous decisions.

Just 2-3 days back same bold and beautiful general was rubbishing Chinese incursion as mere difference of perception. Although I agree with him this time that its not a good decision to reduce the troops level. Infiltration are at very low level and army has done a good job in reducing the terrorism in valley. If they are puled out now it will be catastrophic .Best they can do is to remove army from civilian areas and also from duties in maintaining law and order in cities. I am sure army is already not participating in those duties so status quo should be maintained as of now . Induct more and more locals in police force and hand over law and order to local police .

 

[Oracle]

Well said. Kashmir is more economic problem than religious.

I respectfully disagree. Kashmir is neither a religious problem, nor is it an economic problem. Kashmir is a problem created by India itself. Jawaharlal Nehru started it, and even though Indira Gandhi could finish it....phew!

When you guys talk about economic development in Kashmir, do you keep in mind the investors? Who'd want to invest in Kashmir which is always troubled by either separatists or by terrorists? And even if someone do invest there, what's the guarantee that terrorists would not blow it up OR separatists would not set it to fire.

For economic development to happen, the environment should be created first. This is what is happening in most parts of NE, where even though GoI itself is the investor and has allocated crores of funds - people are scared to even go there. Contractors, Engineers are routinely kidnapped and huge ransom demands are made. Many times they are killed even. So even when GoI is the investor, there are huge huge problems. Forget about foreign investors.

I have seen intellectuals debate on National TV, economic development should be stressed upon on terrorist hit areas. With due respect how many of those people know the ground conditions? OR lived in Kashmir or any other part of terrorist hit place in India? Is it hard for us or for GoI to understand that economic development is not what they want. They are already up in arms - some for an independent country, some for a language, some for a state. Don't get confused, for this is corruption and I'd take this in another thread. Crushing terrorism should be the first priority. When it's peaceful, economic development will happen automatically. E.g. Mizoram is the only NE state which does not have terrorist groups. Indira Gandhi did a good job, way back then.

Now comes, the religious angle. Shah Faisal topped Civil Services in 2009. I don't think he is crossing the border anytime soon to join LeT or Al-Qaida. So, where there is a will, there is a way. There are tens of examples of people from poor backgrounds, remote places and diverse religions making it big, just because they wanted a better life.

I recently met two Kashmiri Muslims and had a long discussion with one of them about the recent unrest in Kashmir. In summary, this is what he said:

• "We are loyal to India but still the GoI doesn't trust us enough to let us live without heavy presence of Army (he meant IA as well as CRPF, RR, BSF et al.) and AFSPA."

• 
  
  It's not the ordinary Kashmiris that GoI does not trust. It's Pakistan backed separatists and terrorists that GoI does not trust. The moment the IA is withdrawn fully from Kashmir, we will have another Kargil - this time we'll lose Kashmir. Also, how do the 2 people know that GoI does not trust Kashmiris, unless they have been fed with propaganda? Sad, pmaitra you did not raise this point.

 

[Oracle]

Contd..

[*]"There are too many fake encounters."

I will not discard the fact that human rights violations do not take place in places as sensitive as Kashmir. It happens. I also know, terrorists killing Kashmiris and spreading propaganda about the IA killing them. E.g. The recent Maluvi Farooq disclosure. This again is propaganda fed to ordinary Kashmiris.

[*]"Gilani is a trouble maker and he should be hanged for instigating violence. He is more responsible for the recent deaths than anybody else."

Ah! Some good sense. Finally some people are getting tired of militancy there. Good to know.

[*]"There was an agreement between Nehru and Sheikh Abdullah that Delhi will control Defense, Communication and Currency and Srinagar will control everything else about Kashmir but we don't know what happened to that agreement now."
[/LIST]

I looked into his eyes and I can say that he was speaking in all honesty and with a clear conscience. I am not competent enough to offer a solution, but I do believe that peace can be returned to Kashmir with Kashmir remaining a part of the Indian Union.

If Article 370 stands, then all those stands too, I guess.
Peace will not return till PoK is taken back and merged with India.

N.B.: If Kashmir is a Jewel in the crown. There are 8 more in the North East & tens in mainland India. I do not see any reason why Kashmir should be treated so specially.

 

[Oracle]

'Legal system in Kashmir under pressure'

Army Chief General V K Singh said the legal system in Jammu and Kashmir was under "various pressures" that leave a question mark over the process.

"I don't know how much you are aware of the legal system in the valley. There are various pressures out there. You are aware of Miyan Qayoom Khan, who was President of the Bar Association and now he is in detention and he has been
rabidly anti-India.

"Now, with that kind of a situation, what kind of a justice we would expect and legal provisions would be followed, leaves a question mark," he told a press conference in New Delhi.

The Army Chief was responding to a question why the Army was opposing a civilian trial in the alleged fake Machil
encounter. Commenting on the inquiry in the case, he said the probe was delayed initially "because of the local courts
putting a ban on the witnesses being available to the Army and after that, there were lot of legal wrangles in trying to get
the issue sorted out."

He said the inquiry was in progress and as per the normal procedures, the Army would like to complete its own inquiry before coming to any conclusion as to what had actually happened.

Asked if the case had put a question mark on the other encounters that had taken place in the state, Singh said, "One
incident like this can't put under cloud anti-infiltration measures and encounters that take place."

"It would be over-generalisation on the part of anybody to link this with it (Machil encounter) and say that all other infiltration measures have failed or there are people who are involved," he added.

Source

 

[Anshu Attri]

'Army not to cut down forces in J&K'


http://www.zeenews.com/news680509.html
New Delhi: On a day Home Secretary GK Pillai hinted at a 25 percent reduction in security forces' strength in Jammu and Kashmir, Army Chief General VK Singh on Friday said they do not not feel the need to "cut down" their forces in the state.

He also said it will be ensured that "extra pressure" is not put on his "already-stretched" deployments.

"We have not yet felt that we have to cut down our forces. If they want to cut down para-military and police forces, I won't say anything...



"So when that is done, it will be ensured that extra pressure is not brought on our already-stretched deployments there," Singh told a press conference on the eve of Army Day.

Maintaining that Army was not aware of any troop reduction plans, the Army chief said he was sure that any step in this direction would be taken in consultation with the Unified Command headquarters operating in the state.



The security forces operating in the state work under a Unified Command, which is headed by the State Chief Minister.

He was responding to a question on Pillai's statement and whether the Army felt that the situation had improved to an extent the that the troops' presence could be reduced.

Declining to make any direct comments on Pillai's remarks, Singh said the Army had deployed its troops in the state as per the requirements on the Line of Control and other areas.

"Same way in the hinterland, some Army columns are deployed to maintain peace and counter terrorism. We have not yet felt that we have cut to down our forces. If they want to cut down paramilitary or police forces, I won't say anything," he added.

 

[ejazr]

Ejaz & Gogbot - How does troop reduction help normalize the situation in J&K? I very well understand it is the State Polices' job to maintain law & order. But was not this very J&K Police ineffective some months back and did Omar Abdullah himself not call on the Indian Army to do flag march through the streets of Kashmir?

The Army is called in times of emergency in such situations, else they go to their barracks. OR are posted somewhere else. Instead of cutting down troops, GoI should train J&K police on how to effectively handle riot situations. I do not support withdrawal because GoI instead of taking a hard stand are doing things which are completely unnecessary. Instead, GoI should use an iron fist while dealing with the unrest in Kashmir and it's instigators. To hell with everything else!

Again, lets not get confused between paramilitary forces like CRPF and Indian Army.

From the news reports, it looks like GP Pillai has not talked to the Army Chief and that is very unfortunate. But from the previous such reports, it is about reducing CRPF presence from populated areas.

Militancy is at a 20 yearlow. The problem that happened over summer did not involve bullets and militants but mostly riotous crowds. You need riot-squads to tackle them, not CRPF armed with machine guns.

Omar Abdulla calling in the Army was a foolish act. The Army is not involved in tackling the population, its the CRPF and Police. And it should stay tha way. Again, looks at the militancy related incidents and then think about it. Eventually the Unified Command will take the decision but the main idea is to reduce security forces from population areas. And this is mainly CRPF forces.

Going by the statements of the Army Chief, there will be reduction in Army troops.