India to pay Russia for arms, ammo it sells to Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Yusuf, Apr 18, 2014.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Ahead of NATO troops downsizing their presence in Afghanistan, India has firmed up a far-reaching deal with Russia to supply arms to the troubled country under which New Delhi will pay for the military equipment that will be sourced from Moscow.
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    The deal, which had been under intense negotiations for the past few months, was clinched after a high-level Indian team made a quiet trip to Moscow in February and stitched up the loose ends even as Russia was bracing for the challenge in Ukraine.
    The first order under this deal, sources said, is already being executed.
    India, through the strategic partnership with Afghanistan, is committed to provide arms and ammunition to strengthen the Afghan National Army. The arrangement with Moscow allows New Delhi to fulfill this commitment, an issue on which Kabul has been sending reminders including detailed lists of its requirements.
    The issue was debated at length on various occasions in the Cabinet Committee on Security, which eventually arrived at two conclusions — that India will have no troop presence in Afghanistan; and that India will not provide small arms even though some are manufactured domestically.
    The logic behind the second decision was to avoid a situation where any India-marked small arms make their way into Kashmir or to the hinterland through terrorist outfits.
    While Russia may separately supply its own range of Kalashnikovs, the Indian financing will largely focus on artillery guns, air support in the form of choppers and even armoured vehicles, including tanks.
    A range of non-lethal items could also make it to the list depending on the nature of the requirement. Also part of the arrangement is an exercise to refit some old Russian-made equipment lying with Afghanistan for years, sources said, adding that a survey of such equipment has been carried out.
    As of now, the ANA is a predominantly infantry force as the US, sources said, limited its access to long-range guns largely due to Pakistani concerns. But over the past of couple of years, Afghanistan has been pressuring countries such as India and Russia to properly equip the ANA if it has to repel Taliban offensives on its own.
    On the training front, the Indian position remains the same. While trying to meet Afghan demands for more seats here, the government is still against setting up any facility in Afghanistan and posting instructors there. Sources pointed out that any such move may also invite strong Pakistani protests.
    Besides, India has also held preliminary conversations with China on jointly improving the connectivity infrastructure in Afghanistan’s mining belt so that the resources can be better exploited. Both countries already have interests in specific mining projects and are looking to expand their presence, which would aid Afghanistan’s economy.

    India to pay Russia for arms, ammo it sells to Afghanistan | The Indian Express
     
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  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Finally India is going to supply lethal weapons to the Afghans. I think India was just waiting to see how the elections take place and how the transition of power happens. Taliban threat was tackled well by the ANA and the election process went off peacefully.

    I don't know why India has a deal with Russia to supply air assets when we have our own developed and mature platforms.

    Whatever the case, India's decision to supply Afghans while coming late in the day is a case of der aaye durust aaye. India should supply whatever the Afghans need and keep the Durand hot. I hope the Afghans also start to push their case with Pakistan on Durand. That will help India.
     
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  4. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I didn't quite get the logic behind not giving Indian small arms.

     
  5. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    @Yusuf

    History Changes, time changes but it is difficult to change geography. Afghanistan in relation to Pakistan and India as relevant today as it was in 10th century AD. In this respect I would like to quote from The Miltary History of India by Jadunath Sarkar :

    Well there is a lessons here :

    1. Pakistan holding Lahore would be capable of drawing this reserve of hardy Pathans for raids into India as proved by 1948 raids and subsequent terrorism in J&k and other parts.

    2. If Afghanistan is under influence of ISI as they are trying their best then Pakistan and Afghanistan combine pose a credible military threat to the plains of Northern India.

    3. India must make all efforts to not allow that combination to occur.

    1. I wonder in Indian context, things have changed much. Now instead of "Turkasha Dand" India would be forced to shed out "Afghan Dand"....
    2. But the realisation that part of new Delhi security lies in Kabul is all right. That is why, Moguls and Maharaja Ranjit Singh Kabul under control. When the connection between Delhi Sultanate and Kabul was lost , Delhi sultanate perished before the Mogul invasions..

    These are geopolitical realities of the realities amply reflected by History which the ISI generals are trying to exploit without realising that Kabul was never under Lahore but Lahore in most part of the history indeed was under Kabul...

    Pakjabies are scared of that historical reality....
     
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  6. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    We don't want the Afghan army to know we have shitty weapons.

    Anyway on a serious note, the Russians can provide small arms at cheaper costs than we can. No weapons supply to Afghan is because the NSA does not want any weapons supplied. The NSA is apparently waiting for the post US ground situation in Afghanistan before weapons can be supplied to the ANA. Even the new Indo-Russian deal will most probably have a post-2015 delivery timeline.

    The fear is that the ANA will not be able to stand up to the Taliban and the weapons will end up in the hands of anti-Indian elements. But the counter argument the ANA has put forward is that with attack choppers, IFVs and tanks, they will be better equipped to handle the Taliban. But then the ANA itself is volatile where soldiers don't stay on permanently and attrition and desertion is quite common. So, its survival come into question, especially with Taliban sympathizers within the ANA.

    Anyway, it's not like the transfer of tanks and heavy weapons would mean the ANA will start using them effectively as soon as they get it, so another argument is that even if the weapons are supplied tomorrow, the Taliban can still achieve victory due to the lack of capability on ANA's part in using the weapons.

    If the ANA survives a post US era, then there shouldn't be any problems in supplying small arms, heavy arms and training them in Afghan soil. A hardline Indian govt can pooh-pooh any Pakistani protest.
     
  7. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I am not talking about all kinds of weapons, but the small arms. Are they shitty? Even if part of the weapons were procured locally, we could redirect some of the money we will be giving to Russia to Indian firms.

    We could always give them out INSAS rifles. Even if they turn up in J&K, what difference would it make anyway?

    The concerns over ANA desertion are real. India should take a graduated approach I think.
     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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  9. laughingbuddha

    laughingbuddha Regular Member

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    Is India also going to play an advisory role to the Afghan army?
     
  10. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    No, I was only kidding. Our small arms are adequate, but ANA is inducting newer and better small arms that our industry is yet to start making.

    Morale. Soldiers being killed with weapons made in India.

    I agree with this. Let's see what the new govt does in the next few months.
     
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  11. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    If I am not wrong this very option/possibility was first discussed here at DFI by members, I think by @Yusuf; and others.
     
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  12. fouji

    fouji Regular Member

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    ANA doesn't have the capability to pose any threat to pakistan even facing afghan taliban will be a big challenge for them
     

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