India to introduce Chinese high speed train

[Yusuf]

In the corridors you mentioned there is no connectivity between the southern HSR and the northern and western ones. You won't be able to travel from Chennai to Delhi, ideally there should be a Hyderabad-Mumbai corridor to connect all the different HSR.

Like i said, it will be a circuitous route but possible. Chennai-Bangalore-Mumbai-Ahmedabad-Jaipur-Delhi.

I mean that is if other corridors are not created. Today a normal train journey from Chennai to Delhi takes 36 hours i think. Even with this merry go round, a passenger will reach faster than train. Now this provided the HSR ticket works out cheaper than air.

What i was trying to say is that basically we can have many of these corridors which basically grids the entire country.

HSR does have a future. I mean i will just talk about Bangalore Chennai Route. Train tickets are always full. Buses always full and we have literally thousands of buses going from Bangalore to Chennai every day. A volvo ride to Chennai is about INR 800. I think we can expect HSR to have a similar price if not less. But look at the sheer number of people who can take the HSR and how fast they can reach chennai and come back after a days work.

Similarly, the Pune-Mumbai-Vadodra-Ahmedabad route is what i can think of.

Today a lot of people including me take our own cars to say Chennai. All this will be cut. This aspect of saving of fuel costs which means foreign exchange should also be considered.

 

[Yusuf]

The first line will NOT be Shinkansen for sure, I can bet your ass on it, and I wish it won't be Chinese for god's sake, Shinkansen are too expensive to run, and Japanese proposed 325 KM/h which is a sign that they are not even seriously consider the deal.The one in Taiwan runs at 200 KM/h, I doubt you have
a better power supply than that of Taiwan, by the way, even Korea opted German.

The first line if there is a first line, possibly will be TGV, from the way you run your business, I can tell the French bribe has been in place. but I will seriously doubt
you will really put your money in it.

What kind of a gambler are you? You want to bet but want to put someone else's arse on the line?

Taiwan HSR runs at 300 kmph BTW.

The estimated time frame of HSR coming to India is at least 5 years and that if we start today. India is working of generating huge amounts of power including nuclear. So no we should not have any problems with power.

 

[Virendra]

Isn't a focus on rural-urban connect going to serve us better? It would be a catalyst to the economy in every manner.
That should be a priority higher to improvising the existing inter city network.

 

[Bangalorean]

What kind of a gambler are you? You want to bet but want to put someone else's arse on the line?

Taiwan HSR runs at 300 kmph BTW.

The estimated time frame of HSR coming to India is at least 5 years and that if we start today. India is working of generating huge amounts of power including nuclear. So no we should not have any problems with power.

Power is not an issue at all. The people who speak about power problems w.r.t. train lines speak as though our existing electric trains keep stopping midway due to power failure. Delhi metro and the other metros run with clockwork efficiency throughout the year, in spite of all the power problems in the country. The reason is that there is dedicated power generation for rail infrastructure. It is just silly to talk about power, "floods", "tropical weather", etc. as stumbling blocks to HSR, like some clueless Chinese posters are doing on this thread. The biggest and primary problem will be land acquisition. Once land acquisition is done, everything else is a walk in the park (well.. almost )

And your previous post about demand for HSR is spot on. Today in Indian railways, you need to book 3 months in advance to get a guaranteed reservation. I mean, that is just insane demand. There is massive demand for HSR between major metros in India. Bangalore-Chennai will run completely booked from day 1, assured.

 

[Bangalorean]

Isn't a focus on rural-urban connect going to serve us better? It would be a catalyst to the economy in every manner.
That should be a priority higher to improvising the existing inter city network.

Lack of demand. No way that is going to work out. HSR by definition, needs to run between massive population centers with almost no stops in between.

Rural-urban connect will be better served by expanding the existing IR coverage, and more dense road network, etc.

 

[Virendra]

No I didn't mean for HSR to be run between rural and urban areas.
But I'm for improving their inter connectivity first, before we talk about flying faster among the cities.

 

[Yusuf]

Isn't a focus on rural-urban connect going to serve us better? It would be a catalyst to the economy in every manner.
That should be a priority higher to improvising the existing inter city network.

The good old railway will still exist saar. HSR to cater to those who need fast and efficient connectivity. Normal broad gauge 50 kmph trains for rural urban connectivity.

 

[Yusuf]

Power is not an issue at all. The people who speak about power problems w.r.t. train lines speak as though our existing electric trains keep stopping midway due to power failure. Delhi metro and the other metros run with clockwork efficiency throughout the year, in spite of all the power problems in the country. The reason is that there is dedicated power generation for rail infrastructure. It is just silly to talk about power, "floods", "tropical weather", etc. as stumbling blocks to HSR, like some clueless Chinese posters are doing on this thread. The biggest and primary problem will be land acquisition. Once land acquisition is done, everything else is a walk in the park (well.. almost )

And your previous post about demand for HSR is spot on. Today in Indian railways, you need to book 3 months in advance to get a guaranteed reservation. I mean, that is just insane demand. There is massive demand for HSR between major metros in India. Bangalore-Chennai will run completely booked from day 1, assured.

I think when we talk of infrastructure development, power is a major point. India is doing all it can to generate power and also comply with emission norms. Indian is betting big on nuclear power. Infrastructure also means good roads, ports, airports.

If there is one country which actually needs HSR is India!

Look at the population and look at the daily travelers. Anyone who says HSR in India will not be viable is really crazy.

 

[DaTang]

What kind of a gambler are you? You want to bet but want to put someone else's arse on the line?

Taiwan HSR runs at 300 kmph BTW.

The estimated time frame of HSR coming to India is at least 5 years and that if we start today. India is working of generating huge amounts of power including nuclear. So no we should not have any problems with power.

I am just joking on the gambling part.
700T has a designed operational speed of 300 KmpH but actual speed is far less than that due to the limited length and relief.
It is now 70billion in debt and the co-owners have not figured a way out yet. Frequent earthquakes also make the 300 km/h a white lie.




I

 

[Yusuf]

I am just joking on the gambling part.
700T has a designed operational speed of 300 KmpH but actual speed is far less than that due to the limited length and relief.
It is now 70billion in debt and the co-owners have not figured a way out yet. Frequent earthquakes also make the 300 km/h a white lie.
I

I have been to Taiwan THRICE in the last one and half years. Every time i have taken the HSR from Kaohsiung to Taipei. And every time it has gone to 300kmph. I have measured myself too using iphone.

 

[DaTang]

Power is not an issue at all. The people who speak about power problems w.r.t. train lines speak as though our existing electric trains keep stopping midway due to power failure. Delhi metro and the other metros run with clockwork efficiency throughout the year, in spite of all the power problems in the country. The reason is that there is dedicated power generation for rail infrastructure. It is just silly to talk about power, "floods", "tropical weather", etc. as stumbling blocks to HSR, like some clueless Chinese posters are doing on this thread. The biggest and primary problem will be land acquisition. Once land acquisition is done, everything else is a walk in the park (well.. almost )

And your previous post about demand for HSR is spot on. Today in Indian railways, you need to book 3 months in advance to get a guaranteed reservation. I mean, that is just insane demand. There is massive demand for HSR between major metros in India. Bangalore-Chennai will run completely booked from day 1, assured.

You assumed too much,
Metro system has a totally different mechanism than the High Speed Rail, you are comparing a snail with a rabbit, high speed rail needs national power grid to
support the basic sub-structure of the operation, it not only refers to the electricity to run the engine, but also mean the signaling system, emergency control system,
communication system and more. Any minor glitch will lead to disaster, Germany, China and France all learned their lessons.

As I said, it is impossible for you to build, never mention to operate high speed rail with your current infrastructure. Take your lifted highway system as an example,
how long have you achieved so far?

With the financial bottleneck of IR, do you think they have enough money to support the this money burning project?

Your current rail is surviving because of government subsidy, how can you subsidy High Speed Rail?

 

[DaTang]

I have been to Taiwan THRICE in the last one and half years. Every time i have taken the HSR from Kaohsiung to Taipei. And every time it has gone to 300kmph. I have measured myself too using iphone.

I won't deny it can reach 300 kmph at some points, but average speed cannot be that high.

 

[Known_Unknown]

^^Do you think India is some African country with zero technical expertise? There might be shortages in electricity generation, but if it is good enough to supply power to safely operate our nuclear reactors, I'm sure the trains won't have a problem.

 

[Bangalorean]

You assumed too much,
Metro system has a totally different mechanism than the High Speed Rail, you are comparing a snail with a rabbit, high speed rail needs national power grid to
support the basic sub-structure of the operation, it not only refers to the electricity to run the engine, but also mean the signaling system, emergency control system,
communication system and more. Any minor glitch will lead to disaster, Germany, China and France all learned their lessons.

As I said, it is impossible for you to build, never mention to operate high speed rail with your current infrastructure. Take your lifted highway system as an example,
how long have you achieved so far?

With the financial bottleneck of IR, do you think they have enough money to support the this money burning project?

Your current rail is surviving because of government subsidy, how can you subsidy High Speed Rail?

You are talking through your ass, really. You just don't know enough about the country and the systems.

The reason for slow highway construction is land acquisition and litigation, as I already mentioned. Land acquisition is definitely going to be a challenge, but once the land is acquired, it will be proceed like clockwork.

If you knew a little more about economics and realities of the country, you would have realized that subsidies are provided to IR because it is a political hot potato, and no one wants to increase fares.

Only a fool will say that there is not enough demand for HSR in India. Booking a confirmed train ticket in India requires three months advance notice. All buses between cities are full, all highway eating joints are full of car-borne families eating meals. You have no idea of the insane demand for inter-city travel (talking about major corridors like Bangalore-Chennai, Pune-Mumbai, Mumbai-Surat, etc.) - the number of people who travel on an annual basis is more than the population of most countries.

Understand that the existing IR will not build HSR. HSR will be built using a PPP model. Of course the project is doomed to failure if we follow your line of thinking: using IR's existing infrastructure, having IR's current organization manage the project. etc. etc. That is not how it will work. Also realize that there is no shortage of money for any project that has assured returns. Money is never an issue in India for any project where there are returns. There is a reason we are speaking of mass-traffic corridors like Bangalore-Chennai, Amhedabad-Mumbai, etc. which have enough purchasing power and demand, and not cities like Patna-Gorakhpur or Puri-Raipur.

 

[Yusuf]

I won't deny it can reach 300 kmph at some points, but average speed cannot be that high.

Why dont you take a trip there. May be you will defect seeing the freedom and the even more advanced life in Taiwan.

 

[Yusuf]

25Kv line is what all the HSR is using. India is also using he same for its own electrified routes.

Central Organization for Railway Electrification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

India already has 25Kv lines. We can augment it. To say India has no power to run its trains is

 

[DaTang]

^^Do you think India is some African country with zero technical expertise? There might be shortages in electricity generation, but if it is good enough to supply power to safely operate our nuclear reactors, I'm sure the trains won't have a problem.

No, it is far from operating a nuclear reactor, for a nuclear reactor, you only need a diesel generator to serve as an emergency backup, and even those can be a headache if fuels runs out, Japanese Fukushima Daichi nuclear plant has a vivid story to tell.

Power is one of the drawback, acquisition of land, more importantly signaling systems, maintenance of the rails and vehicles, don't forget, you have to buy everything
and you are not as cash ready as Taiwan or S.Korea is.

Giving the low level signaling system of your current railway, you need to spend a lot on crew training and software upgrade, that is also money.

China has gone under 6 times of speed raise until it implemented the 300 KM/h, everytime, tremendous amount of money is burned in training, hardware and software upgrading, and railway improvement.

 

[DaTang]

Why dont you take a trip there. May be you will defect seeing the freedom and the even more advanced life in Taiwan.

Be there done that, actually, Taipei is like a third tier town in China, this being said, I enjoyed the slow pace life there, more relaxed and laying back.
I don't have freedom though, I was there when Lee Tenghui was in charge, my group was accompanied 24/7, hehe.

 

[Yusuf]

No, it is far from operating a nuclear reactor, for a nuclear reactor, you only need a diesel generator to serve as an emergency backup, and even those can be a headache if fuels runs out, Japanese Fukushima Daichi nuclear plant has a vivid story to tell.

Power is one of the drawback, acquisition of land, more importantly signaling systems, maintenance of the rails and vehicles, don't forget, you have to buy everything
and you are not as cash ready as Taiwan or S.Korea is.

Giving the low level signaling system of your current railway, you need to spend a lot on crew training and software upgrade, that is also money.

China has gone under 6 times of speed raise until it implemented the 300 KM/h, everytime, tremendous amount of money is burned in training, hardware and software upgrading, and railway improvement.

I hope you know that HSR will run on dedicated lines, and the whole infrastructure is going to be separate from the current railways and also draw upon the expertise of foreign countries.

Land acquisition certainly is the biggest concern. Unlike China which can just bulldoze anywhere. For China, the distance between any two points is a straight line. Then Boom!!
In India land acquisition takes a lot of time and goes through lots of legal hassles.

 

[Yusuf]

Be there done that, actually, Taipei is like a third tier town in China, this being said, I enjoyed the slow pace life there, more relaxed and laying back.
I don't have freedom though, I was there when Lee Tenghui was in charge, my group was accompanied 24/7, hehe.

obviously you will be accompanied. Tell them you want to defect and then see.