India set to join NSG

[Navnit Kundu]

Navneet I have never said India should sign the npt.
I have said India should never have accepted the nuclear deal at the time it was presented. The npt seems to be the leverage USA
Will use to have the nuclear deal get started along with nsg
Membership. India nuclear program started with bhabha and
The atoms for peace us program. I am not saying India should
Sign npt simply saying India wants to be in the big leagues
But is in no way prepared to be.

I got that earlier but I am in disagreement with your reading that we have surrendered our strategic autonomy permanently by signing the 123 deal. What I'm saying is, it's a temporary deal, on top of that, it has more to do with the suppliers than with us. The deal exists only as long as India wants to remain compliant of the clauses. We can retract it whenever we want (for example, when doing a thermonuclear test in the future).

The west wanted to make money selling nuclear power to us, but couldn't do it because THEY were signatories of NPT, which prohibited them from dealing with non-NPT nations like India. They would have been on the wrong side of the law if they sold fuel to us. So they themselves got together and created a legal loophole which essentially dilutes the NPT for the sake of corporate greed. If you see the pre-negotiation positions of both, it is India which has gained more in the bargain.

Sellers : If India wants nuclear fuel, it must sign the NPT and allow inspection of ALL nuclear facilities
India : We wont sign the NPT at all
Sellers : Okay, we will sell fuel without signing NPT, in exchange, India must allow inspection of just OUR nuclear facilities, not ALL.

India found this was a good compromise; We got nuclear fuel for generation of electricity and we protected our military program from inspection. What's the problem here? We haven't given up anything. We are creating a strategic reserve to store nuclear fuel. So if we want to pull back from the 123 or Hyde act, we can do so confidently, by relying on our reserve fuel. That is why this deal is important to us. Take as much fuel from as many countries as possible and store it. When we are ready to do another nuclear test or if we get embargoed during, we can use this reserve.

So, (no-NPT + electricity + weapons program + multipurpose strategic reserve) is better deal than other two options : (NPT + electricity + no weapons program) or (no-NPT + no electricity + limited weapons stockpile).

“The reserve pool could be anywhere between 5000 MT to 15,000 MT which can last for 5-10 years,” said a senior government official.

A proposal for stocking 5000 MT of uranium has been sent to the Cabinet for approval but the cap is likely to increase in the coming years.

India to build a ‘strategic uranium reserve’

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India actually is in a very sweet spot.
Use indigenous fuel for nuclear weapons program.
Import fuel for energy needs
Total control over fast breeder reactors and fuel
Develop thorium in the three phase cycle
Wait it out develop thorium and completely abandon uranium

 

[Navnit Kundu]

India actually is in a very sweet spot.
Use indigenous fuel for nuclear weapons program.
Import fuel for energy needs
Total control over fast breeder reactors and fuel
Develop thorium in the three phase cycle
Wait it out develop thorium and completely abandon uranium

That's exactly what I've been saying from the very first post. Everything is settled in our favor, where does NPT even come in this picture? We get to keep our weapons, we get to have continuous supply of nuclear fuel, we get to continue development of Thorium reactors, all of that without signing NPT.

I don't think we will make more nuclear weapons, but we might keep the window open to make more types of nukes (tactical nukes, and/or Thorium bomb). There was a deal with Kazakhstan to procure 5000 metric tons of Uranium from 2015 to 2019 (in exchange we will train their army, or something like that). Now, that's a lot of Uranium. Even if we divert a fraction of this to our military reactors (which we aren't obligated to declare), we will have enough nukes to sustain whatever ambitious policy we have envisioned. We have also signed parallel deals with Russia, Mongolia, Argentina and Namibia. There is an abundance of nuclear fuel for electricity generation. Our plane has already taken off, the debate is settled now, electricity generation has nothing to do with NPT and NSG has nothing to do with restricting our weapons program.

India Inks New Nuclear Deal with Kazakhstan

We should find an auspicious moment and give nukes to Argentina. They have a territorial dispute with the Britain and Brits are still meddling in Kashmir, in favor of Pakistan. Britain will be preoccupied with Argentina and leave us alone, if Argentina has nukes. We can still do it legally because we aren't signatory to NPT. :biggrin2:

 

[LETHALFORCE]

With the vast fissile material reserves ,nuclear material will always be there for weapons if needed

 

[ezsasa]

I was confused about various poster's stand on this matter.

May be too much spending in that garbage forum called PDF, damaged these guys'(I am excepting LETHAL) brains to this extent.

@ezsasa bro.
pardon my language. But your post is lacking.

Where the heck does power generation comes into play?

Dependency on nuclear power generation will come into the picture in a futuristic scenario. If NPT is not signed, it creates a leverage in their favour. This is not about current scenario.

All these treaties are not just there to stop nuclear weapons, they are designed create leverage and there by increase revenues sources to their members.

Hope this answers your question.

 

[Ancient Indian]

Dependency on nuclear power generation will come into the picture in a futuristic scenario. If NPT is not signed, it creates a leverage in their favour. This is not about current scenario.

All these treaties are not just there to stop nuclear weapons, they are designed create leverage and there by increase revenues sources to their members.

Hope this answers your question.

What about coal based power ?
Do you seriously think that we will run out of coal in near future?
Nuclear power generation is never an option for developing countries. Once we reach the club, we may consider nuclear power to some extent.

It is my understanding anyway. Feel free to enlighten me.

 

[ezsasa]

What about coal based power ?
Do you seriously think that we will run out of coal in near future?
Nuclear power generation is never an option for developing countries. Once we reach the club, we may consider nuclear power to some extent.

It is my understanding anyway. Feel free to enlighten me.

Let me try...

30 years from now I believe the world will make it costly for new coal based power plants to be put up. The plants put up 30 years ago are inefficient today, same thing will happen for plants being put up now. And more over the coal available in india is not considered an efficient grade, there is a reason we import coal.

And considering india's population will be close to 2 billion by that time, demand cannot be met by coal and solar alone.

Unless new solar technologies come up, nuclear power generation will be the way to go. Current solar technologies require either huge landmass or good amount of water.

Hope this answers..

If you feel further discussion is warranted on power generation, we can take it up in different thread. Let this thread continue on original topic.

 

[Ancient Indian]

Let me try...

30 years from now I believe the world will make it costly for new coal based power plants to be put up. The plants put up 30 years ago are inefficient today, same thing will happen for plants being put up now. And more over the coal available in india is not considered an efficient grade, there is a reason we import coal.

And considering india's population will be close to 2 billion by that time, demand cannot be met by coal and solar alone.

Unless new solar technologies come up, nuclear power generation will be the way to go. Current solar technologies require either huge landmass or good amount of water.

Hope this answers..

If you feel further discussion is warranted on power generation, we can take it up in different thread. Let this thread continue on original topic.

We will discuss about the power issues later in separate thread.

But what it has to with NPT. We already made deals with France and Russia about building reactors in our country.
Hollande even visited the site in January.
And navneet provided some info in previous post about the amount of material we import.
Everything look ok to me.

Why sign NPT when we have made enough alternatives to overcome power shortages?
Do you foresee any roll backs of these deals in future?

 

[ezsasa]

We will discuss about the power issues later in separate thread.

But what it has to with NPT. We already made deals with France and Russia about building reactors in our country.
Hollande even visited the site in January.
And navneet provided some info in previous post about the amount of material we import.
Everything look ok to me.

Why sign NPT when we have made enough alternatives to overcome power shortages?
Do you foresee any roll backs of these deals in future?

Not for the next 10 years, or atleast the americans feel the chinese are a threat.
Other countries are signing deals because they need revenue sources, once the current financial crisis ends they all will be back to their old tricks.

No other alternative power sources are as efficient as a nuclear power source.

So in my opinion for next 10 years no issues, signing NPT will not be a critical factor.

 

[aliyah]

at present we have 38votes on our side for entry in nsg. our EAM working on some more in coming days. india is getting nsg membership.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@Indx TechStyle I am getting a feeling we are being trolled here. What a headache!

Discussion will end peacefully.
Just not tag Pin.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

China's stand on Nuclear Suppliers Group smacks of duplicity

 

[Indx TechStyle]

China harps on consensus for India NSG bid despite US backing

 

[Navnit Kundu]

China harps on consensus for India NSG bid despite US backing

Ye sabh drama hai. US kaunsa hamara ally hai? First they go to China and tell them to block Indian entry, then they make loud statements through their media, claiming that 'US will support India', because they already know that China has been told to block it and China will happily oblige. Net result is that India get's Babaji Ka Thullu, but the Indian public ends up believing that US is India's friend and Pakistani jahils end up believing that China is Pakistan's friend, for blocking India. In the end, US will extract come concessions from India in exchange for their useless support and China will extract concessions from Pakistan for their useless support, while no stone has actually moved. This is how US and China jointly co-operate in international matters to control world affairs jointly while fooling everyone and claiming each others as enemy. Dono mil baat ke khayenge. Sabh mile huein hai jeee...

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Ye sabh drama hai. US kaunsa hamara ally hai? First they go to China and tell them to block Indian entry, then they make loud statements through their media, claiming that 'US will support India', because they already know that China has been told to block it and China will happily oblige. Net result is that India get's Babaji Ka Thullu, but the Indian public ends up believing that US is India's friend and Pakistani jahils end up believing that China is Pakistan's friend, for blocking India. In the end, US will extract come concessions from India in exchange for their useless support and China will extract concessions from Pakistan for their useless support, while no stone has actually moved. This is how US and China jointly co-operate in international matters to control world affairs jointly while fooling everyone and claiming each others as enemy. Dono mil baat ke khayenge. Sabh mile huein hai jeee...

Karne do, kab tk rokenge.


India surely possess enough privileges to go in UNSC, APEC, MTCR and NSG. With time, our bid is only going to be more strong.

 

[Navnit Kundu]

Karne do, kab tk rokenge.


India surely possess enough privileges to go in UNSC, APEC, MTCR and NSG. With time, our bid is only going to be more strong.

Yes, but those are cold, hard strategic moves which are being made due to our own merit. US has no business claiming credit here.

 

[Screambowl]

Ghantaa .... on Pak's order chinese will VETO.

 

[aliyah]

pressure on China to support india in nsg.......Himalayas se ucchi dosti me thodi dhokebazi to banti hai Pakistan

 

[LETHALFORCE]

http://www.firstpost.com/world/as-l...ay-india-in-nsg-is-a-non-starter-2824626.html

As long as China is in the way, India in Nuclear Security Group is a non-starter

 

[Neo]

http://www.firstpost.com/world/as-l...ay-india-in-nsg-is-a-non-starter-2824626.html

As long as China is in the way, India in Nuclear Security Group is a non-starter

The NSG membership is being overhypedby the media, both domestic and foreign. It's all about the status and being accepted in an exclusive club but does India actually need it now? Not really. With numerous bilateral nuclear agreements with major players like the US, Russia, France, Canada, Australia and Kazakhstan, India has no worries securing the fuel and raw material supply for its growing number of nuclear reactors. She should let it rest for another decade and work on building economic and political clout. Why does world's most populous country need to beg smaller nations when she herself has the potential to dictate the policy in near future?

It's time to think about killing all these exclusive clubs like NSG, MCTR, CTBT etc which were designed to serve the west in the first place. With enough economic power, China and India can end this western domination and make new clubs based on merit rather than political agenda.