India Rejects BMP-3 Offer

[mehrotraprince]

India Rejects BMP-3 Offer, Will Maintain FICV Program

NEW DELHI — India will not shelve its homegrown $10 billion Futuristic Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) program in favor of advanced Russian BMP-3 combat vehicles.

The decision was conveyed to the Russian side at the Nov. 18 meeting of the India-Russia Inter-Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation held in Moscow, officials said.

During Russian President Vladmir Putin's visit to India last December, the Russians offered to transfer technology for its BMP-3 infantry combat vehicles if India agreed to shelve its indigenous FICV program, which will see production of 2,600 vehicles to replace aging BMP-1 and BMP-2 combat vehicles.

The FICV program will now get rolling as debate over the Russian proposal had pushed the FICV project into the background, said an Indian Defence Ministry source.

An executive of Russia's Rosoboronexport in New Delhi said the company made the BMP-3 proposal because the Indian Army sought the vehicles, but the Defence Ministry would not agree with the condition that the FICV program be shelved.

The FICV project will be in the "Make India" category, which means only domestic companies will be able to compete. The selected company or consortium will develop an FICV prototype on its own although the government will fund nearly 80 percent of the development costs. Thereafter, production will be done in India by the winner.

The FICV project was approved nearly five years ago. Since then, India's Mahindra Defence Systems has tied up with BAE Systems, Larsen & Toubro is working on overseas tie ups, and Tata Motors is also working to connect with overseas companies after its tie up with Rheinmetall was stalled following the blacklisting of the German company. State-owned Ordnance Factories Board is also in the race.

MoD now will shortlist two competitors to develop their prototypes, which will be put to trial.

BMP-2 Upgrade

Meanwhile, the Indian Army plans to upgrade the existing 1,400 BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles with advanced weapons and night-fighting capabilities at a cost of $1.8 billion. However, the MoD canceled a tender floated last year to purchase 2,000 engines for the upgrade because none of the domestic vendors fulfilled the engine's requirements. Now a global tender is likely to be issued for the engines, the MoD source said.

When procured, the engines will be assembled at the Ordnance Factories Board.

The Army requires engines that can generate 350 to 380 horsepower and are easy to maintain and operate in extreme weather conditions. The BMP-2's existing engine has only 285 horsepower and is not suited for cross-country mobility.

The upgrade of the BMP-2 will include advanced observation and surveillance, night-fighting capability, an improved anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) system and a 30mm automatic grenade launcher. The upgraded combat vehicles will have an advanced fire control system and have the capability of loading two missiles in ready-to-fire mode.

The BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles carry soldiers into battle zones and provide fire support, an Indian Army official said.

India Rejects BMP-3 Offer, Will Maintain FICV Program | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[SajeevJino]

.

Thank god ..This time we wins from Lobbying


BMP 3 was a Good Export to KSA or some other oil rich Countries ..

Future Arms Exporter List

1. USA

2. Russia

3. India

 

[TrueSpirit1]

India Rejects BMP-3 Offer, Will Maintain FICV Program

NEW DELHI — India will not shelve its homegrown $10 billion Futuristic Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) program in favor of advanced Russian BMP-3 combat vehicles.

The decision was conveyed to the Russian side at the Nov. 18 meeting of the India-Russia Inter-Governmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation held in Moscow, officials said.

During Russian President Vladmir Putin's visit to India last December, the Russians offered to transfer technology for its BMP-3 infantry combat vehicles if India agreed to shelve its indigenous FICV program, which will see production of 2,600 vehicles to replace aging BMP-1 and BMP-2 combat vehicles.

The FICV program will now get rolling as debate over the Russian proposal had pushed the FICV project into the background, said an Indian Defence Ministry source.

An executive of Russia's Rosoboronexport in New Delhi said the company made the BMP-3 proposal because the Indian Army sought the vehicles, but the Defence Ministry would not agree with the condition that the FICV program be shelved.

The FICV project will be in the "Make India" category, which means only domestic companies will be able to compete. The selected company or consortium will develop an FICV prototype on its own although the government will fund nearly 80 percent of the development costs. Thereafter, production will be done in India by the winner.

The FICV project was approved nearly five years ago. Since then, India's Mahindra Defence Systems has tied up with BAE Systems, Larsen & Toubro is working on overseas tie ups, and Tata Motors is also working to connect with overseas companies after its tie up with Rheinmetall was stalled following the blacklisting of the German company. State-owned Ordnance Factories Board is also in the race.

MoD now will shortlist two competitors to develop their prototypes, which will be put to trial.

BMP-2 Upgrade

Meanwhile, the Indian Army plans to upgrade the existing 1,400 BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles with advanced weapons and night-fighting capabilities at a cost of $1.8 billion. However, the MoD canceled a tender floated last year to purchase 2,000 engines for the upgrade because none of the domestic vendors fulfilled the engine's requirements. Now a global tender is likely to be issued for the engines, the MoD source said.

When procured, the engines will be assembled at the Ordnance Factories Board.

The Army requires engines that can generate 350 to 380 horsepower and are easy to maintain and operate in extreme weather conditions. The BMP-2's existing engine has only 285 horsepower and is not suited for cross-country mobility.

The upgrade of the BMP-2 will include advanced observation and surveillance, night-fighting capability, an improved anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) system and a 30mm automatic grenade launcher. The upgraded combat vehicles will have an advanced fire control system and have the capability of loading two missiles in ready-to-fire mode.

The BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles carry soldiers into battle zones and provide fire support, an Indian Army official said.

India Rejects BMP-3 Offer, Will Maintain FICV Program | Defense News | defensenews.com

Your take on this development, please.
@Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @ersakthivel @p2prada

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This is a old news,

And indeed thank god its rejected ..

----------

The vehicle carry lesser amount of troopers and the exit is from top of the chassis, It does not fit well for a APC, The only impressive thing is its the armament nothing else is special about it, which makes it more of a Infantry fighting vehicle ..

BMP-2 on other hand is perhaps better than BMP-3 in terms of carrying troops, And have a descend firepower to be an Infantry fighting vehicle, But again BMP-2 passenger cabin is cramped and soilders some time have to be in that for days, BMP-2 is also have thin Armour which can be penetrated by a 50cal ..

BMP-1/2/3 does not fit for modern warfare unless they are heavily modified, Though its always better to talior made as per need such as Abhay APC was ..

===========================
@ersakthivel, @Damian, @methos

 

[Defcon 1]

This is a old news,

And indeed thank god its rejected ..

----------

The vehicle carry lesser amount of troopers and the exit is from top of the chassis, It does not fit well for a APC, The only impressive thing is its the armament nothing else is special about it, which makes it more of a Infantry fighting vehicle ..

BMP-2 on other hand is perhaps better than BMP-3 in terms of carrying troops, And have a descend firepower to be an Infantry fighting vehicle, But again BMP-2 passenger cabin is cramped and soilders some time have to be in that for days, BMP-2 is also have thin Armour which can be penetrated by a 50cal ..

BMP-1/2/3 does not fit for modern warfare unless they are heavily modified, Though its always better to talior made as per need such as Abhay APC was ..

===========================
@ersakthivel, @Damian, @methos

I didn't know about Abhay. If it already exists, why is mod asking private companies to build prototypes for FICV? Why can't they mass produce Abhay itself? Or else carry out a future development of Abhay. New prototype building will result in more time wastage.

 

[Damian]

First question Indian MoD and Army should ask, what IFV they want? Do they want a lighter, amphibious IFV, or perhaps they preffer to choose heavier protected, non amphibious IFV like most western nations preffer.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

What can I say

we Need Entire Type of IFV's What @Damian Sir Posted Above

1. Lighter needs for Fighting inside India with Maoists and Naxals also needed for Patrolling over Kashmir City

2.Amphibious Needs for Sudden deployment inside Sri Lanka

3.Heavier Protected Needs To Patrol over LoC and Deep Behind Enemy lines and Used for WAR in advance to our Infantry

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Amphibious is definitely the requirement but again it should be compact like BMP-2 but with more space for troops inside and should carry equal or more troops, And again it should have more fire-power, New FICV shows such details so does Abhay APC in past ..

@Ray Sir have commanded squadron of BMP-2, We may get more details from Sir`s experience operating and commanding these vehicles and the obstical they usually counter and what further improvements can be done to it ..

First question Indian MoD and Army should ask, what IFV they want? Do they want a lighter, amphibious IFV, or perhaps they preffer to choose heavier protected, non amphibious IFV like most western nations preffer.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

Doubts over APC and IFV(FICV)

I think APC Means to carry 10+ Fully Equipped Infantry and have heavy Armour and a Small Gun Turret or Anti tank missiles and It can bring our Soldiers into The Battlefield and Brings back to Friendly base when our Soldiers under heavy enemy Fire

FICV

means A Tank without the Main Gun Instead Cannons and can fulfill all of the modern Main Battle tanks characteristics .Can Perform Any duties but only lacks of Rooms inside to carry Soldiers
@Kunal Biswas Sir

 

[ersakthivel]

For the army It is always better to engage DRDO with fully freezed specs after a good thought on what they exactly need.

Other wise if people in IA change their mind midway it will be like giving order for a warship and once half the design is over asking it to be converted into submarine. In the end it will neither float nor dive.

During Russian President Vladmir Putin's visit to India last December, the Russians offered to transfer technology for its BMP-3 infantry combat vehicles if India agreed to shelve its indigenous FICV program, which will see production of 2,600 vehicles to replace aging BMP-1 and BMP-2 combat vehicles.

The FICV program will now get rolling as debate over the Russian proposal had pushed the FICV project into the background, said an Indian Defence Ministry source.

An executive of Russia's Rosoboronexport in New Delhi said the company made the BMP-3 proposal because the Indian Army sought the vehicles, but the Defence Ministry would not agree with the condition that the FICV program be shelved.

WHy should Russians set a pre condition for us to drop local project before selling their own stuff?

If they want to sell they can straight away offer it . OR itf they don't want to then they can keep quiet.

good move by MOD in standing firm for indian interests over that of vested interests.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@SajeevJino,

Now days, APC are more or less IFVs ..

There is little there to differentiate them from what originally their definition was and roles ..

================

APC ( Armored Personal Carrier ) can refer to any vehicle which is Armored and have capability to transport troopers.

IFV ( Infantry fighting Vehicle ) can refer to any vehicle which posses armament to deter enemy infantry ..

================

Now lets see what BMP-2 has, It has a 30mm cannon and a 7.62mm MG for anti-Infantry role and can carry 8 passenger with it, It does the duel role ..

And most of modern BMP-2 equivalents, So as i said before ' There is little there to differentiate them from what originally their definition was and roles .. '

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

My father is from Mechanised Infantry and I have seen BMP-2 (Sarath) in Ahmednagar and Bikaner. It's a very good IFV. But if you compare it with IFVs of other countries such as US army Strykers (is it amphibious?) the BMPs look so outdated in technology.

If DRDO can make Arjun MK-II tanks then surely indigenous IFV is not that difficult to make.

 

[hitesh]

WHy should Russians set a pre condition for us to drop local project before selling their own stuff?

If they want to sell they can straight away offer it . OR it they don't want to then they can keep quiet.

good move by MOD in standing firm for indian interests over that of vested interests.

The Russians don't want the indians to use the knowledge and technology they will aquire from this transfer to be used on there own indigenous development ,they know the indians are struggling with there Abhay APC project .

 

[Eastman]

what about....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Interesting Point, here is picture >>

================

Here some details of Abhay APC ----- >>

If DRDO can make Arjun MK-II tanks then surely indigenous IFV is not that difficult to make.

=================
=================

Last time i remembered you were saying ' Indians cannot even make a decent BMP-2 copy '

Now from, Where you get such expertise comment?

============================>>

Regarding the topic, Afaik ( Was following the development closely back then ) that Abhay project was killed for unknown reason, Just like many Indigenous projects latter accured faulty imported stuff and higher price involving mammoth scams and high figures ..

Abhay was not even put for tests, Abhay was design as per GSQR ..

The Russians don't want the indians to use the knowledge and technology they will aquire from this transfer to be used on there own indigenous development ,they know the indians are struggling with there Abhay APC project .

 

[SajeevJino]

As of My Requirements The FICV or IFV should have

1.Armour should be equal to modern Tanks Armour

2. 30 or 40mm Auto Cannon along with one or two Machine Guns guided with lasers and two or Four Pieces of Anti Tank Missiles

3. Can carry atleast Five Highly equipped Infantry

4 Can Live from NBC and Laser Warning Systems

5.Amphibious Charac.

6.Can Knock out Shoulder Fire Anti Tank Missiles


But In case of BMP

only a Auto Cannon and Armour .So it can't live in the Modern Battlefield It can only save the crew from Bullets and Machine Guns

 

[Decklander]

Indian FICV will be a much better product compared to any junk that russia can offer. It is a huge order and must go to Indian firms only. I wud like to see a 75mm gun on it rather than a 40mm gun. So that once again we can show to the world our Jugaad style. Merkava carries troops also.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Every time india has an indigenous project russia throws a monkey wrench.

 

[arnabmit]

@Kunal Biswas

I have seen your posts on TATA wheeled and tracked FICV models. Do you have pics of the Mahindra models as well?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Mahindra models were not shown, I dont believe they were finalized on design back in 2012 expo ..

Only TATA`s models were present back then ..

@Kunal Biswas

I have seen your posts on TATA wheeled and tracked FICV models. Do you have pics of the Mahindra models as well?