India not keen on trilateral security pact with Australia, US

[civfanatic]

Non aligned and India ? I guess we were playing gilli danda with USSR back in 80's . If our relationship with Russia was not that of an military ally then only thing it could be is a gilli danda partner.

We were allied with USSR but we also had close relations with Western countries like U.K. and France.

In the Indian context 'Non-aligned' really means 'Multi-aligned".

 

[SHASH2K2]

We were allied with USSR but we also had close relations with Western countries like U.K. and France.

In the Indian context 'Non-aligned' really means 'Multi-aligned".

Now that you have accepted the fact that India was aligned with USSR and other countries why are you quoting Japan and S korea as example? why not China which has gained a lot during its alliance with USA and is strong militarily now. Japan and S korea are both doing well economically and if you are referring to theirmilitary part being weak then fault is with them instead of USA.

 

[civfanatic]

Now that you have accepted the fact that India was aligned with USSR and other countries why are you quoting Japan and S korea as example? why not China which has gained a lot during its alliance with USA and is strong militarily now. Japan and S korea are both doing well economically and if you are referring to theirmilitary part being weak then fault is with them instead of USA.

I support following China's example in regards to relations with the U.S.; that is, pursue close economic ties while staying away from defence/military ties. China understood very well that, if it pursued close defence ties with the U.S., its own influence would be greatly restricted. The U.S. does not allow any other country to come close to itself in capability, and this holds the same for its allies as well as its enemies. This is how all superpowers stay as superpowers.

Japan and South Korea are both the victims of excessive defence/security reliance on the U.S. We should not fall into the same trap.

 

[KS]

.......

Japan and South Korea are both the victims of excessive defence/security reliance on the U.S. We should not fall into the same trap.

Japan & SK are in this position NOT because of US policies but because of their own choice. A choice they consciously took post WWII.

Saying the same fate would befall us if we were to ally with US is sheer ,pardon the word, stupidity.

As I said we are nation who still hasn't got out of the colonial mentality and the fear of the white man. It's as simple as that.

 

[trackwhack]

Japan & SK are in this position NOT because of US policies but because of their own choice. A choice they consciously took post WWII.

Saying the same fate would befall us if we were to ally with US is sheer ,pardon the word, stupidity.

As I said we are nation who still hasn't got out of the colonial mentality and the fear of the white man. It's as simple as that.

You can bitch and moan and call people stupid as much as you want, bottom line is India still does not have any strategic alliance with either of the two blocks. We've been fine, we will be fine. Now please dont point to the stuff we signed with Afghanistan and Vietnam for Chrissake

 

[civfanatic]

Japan & SK are in this position NOT because of US policies but because of their own choice. A choice they consciously took post WWII.

Neither Japan nor South Korea had much of a choice in the matter. South Korea was almost totally overrun during the Korean War so they had no choice but to ally with the U.S. Japan was defeated in WWII and as a result they were forced to demilitarize and accept virtual U.S. control over their foreign affairs and defence. Today, both South Korea and Japan have the potential to be major powers if they had greater control over defence and foreign powers; in fact modern Japan, with its massive economy, could easily be a great power that rivals Imperial Japan. But this is not possible because of the controls imposed on them by the U.S., and as a result they were forced to sit and watch while the U.S. and China (who have independent foreign policies) battle for influence in the East Pacific.

Nothing in this world happens by accident. The U.S. after achieving victory in WWII clearly realized the value of turning Japan into a dependency, as it simultaneously served two purposes at once: (1) It gave the U.S. a permanent base of operations in the East Pacific to counter both the Soviet presence in the Pacific as well as Red China, and (2) it effectively prevents Japan from ever again challenging American supremacy in the Pacific. The fact that this setup persists without any visible problems even after 70 years shows how long-lasting American influence can be once it is firmly established.

As I said we are nation who still hasn't got out of the colonial mentality and the fear of the white man. It's as simple as that.

I look forward to the day that we stop worshiping the white man and viewing him as the solution of all our problems.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I look forward to the day that we stop worshiping the white man and viewing him as the solution of all our problems.

I look forward to the day when you stop demonizing us white folks.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I also look forward to the day when trackwhack can be repatriated. He is one miserable sod where he is. But he has me on his Ignore List so he'll never see this. Bwahahahaha!

 

[Iamanidiot]

The Indian establishment as a whole has an axe to grind against Kevin Rudd that is the problem here

 

[JayATL]

If we were a U.S. ally in 1971 do you think we could have taken unilateral action against Pakistan?

No way. We would just receive some lecture on human rights, democracy, liberty, etc. and how Pakistan is the epitome of all the above and how its sovereignty should always be respected.

But thankfully our leaders had enough sense to avoid becoming a puppet, and by signing the Indo-Soviet Mutual Co-Op Treaty were were able to successfully deter American intervention.

Huh , that makes no sense, in fact I'm wondering if you intended the reply to someone else's post

 

[JayATL]

I look forward to the day when you stop demonizing us white folks.

Only a mental midget makes racist remarks. I'll gladly apologize for this shallow comment

 

[pmaitra]

I look forward to the day when you stop demonizing us white folks.

I agree. There is too much reverse racism and mindless stereotyping that I see around me. All my efforts to separate politicians from the common people has come to naught. Especially that there are so many Indians in the US, why this negative attitude towards the average American? Perhaps most Indians in the US cannot look beyond the Java code in their LCD screens?

Disappointing.

Only a mental midget makes racist remarks. I'll gladly apologize for this shallow comment

Have you considered apologising for you 'jarhead' comments?

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Only a mental midget makes racist remarks. I'll gladly apologize for this shallow comment

This in the context of your apology is, unfortunately, ambiguous. Could you explicate?

 

[pmaitra]

I look forward to the day that we stop worshiping the white man and viewing him as the solution of all our problems.

CivFanatic, you and I concur way too many times than we differ. May I ask you why we Indians, or at least those of us who mattered, followed, emulated and seeked solutions to our problems from the USSR? Most of the USSR was 'white' as well, right? Why did we get Kurt Tank, a German, to design our fighter plane? Why did we collaborate with the Brits to build our hovercrafts?

Such stereotypical comments will not particularly help in bringing people closer; it will only distance them.

I particularly admire a few people who have a very strong tolerance level against insensitive comments, such as, but not limited to, W.G.Ewald and Yusuf.

 

[Suryakiran]

Completely disagree, there is not need to treat a third rate, racist, two faced nation like Australia as an ally. Outright rejection was what was required.

The Aussies understand that the Chinese want their territory and India is their only hope long term. This is payback time. For the hundreds of thousands of tons of uranium that they sold China allowing them to proliferate at will, while at the same time dealing with India with their heads in the clouds and repeatedly insulting us.

The nuke deal will happen, the truth is we dont need their uranium as much since there is enough in the market and they understand that our requirement is short term considering our fuel cycle aim. So they absolutely dont have a frekin choice but to fall in line.

I disagree with you mate. This is the time we need more allies. This is not a right time to make another fight or bad relation with a country which has same interest at least in the case of China. Whether we join the security agreement or not, but we can keep it open so that we can join when in need or at least keep showing to China that we will join hands with other countries against it if they try to mess with India.

Showing emotions is not good while dealing with relations with other countries.

 

[trackwhack]

Originally Posted by W.G.Ewald
I look forward to the day when you stop demonizing us white folks.

I agree. There is too much reverse racism and mindless stereotyping that I see around me. All my efforts to separate politicians from the common people has come to naught. Especially that there are so many Indians in the US, why this negative attitude towards the average American? Perhaps most Indians in the US cannot look beyond the Java code in their LCD screens?

Disappointing.



Have you considered apologising for you 'jarhead' comments?

I am not sure if the initial comment was directed at me, I have never demonized white people. Some of my best pals are white. Having said that I abhor American hegemony. I abhor hegemony by any nation and if my own nation were to practice it someday I will fight it.

This has nothing to do with the color of ones skin, though, coincidentally, many of the greatest wrongs that were committed were committed by Caucasians.

In order to ensure that India does not have to go through the shitpile it was dragged through by the British until 1947 and then by the West since then upto 9/11, I strongly believe that we should be wary of any strategic alliance with another country, especially the ones that mistreated us.

This singular reasoning is why I am opinionated on things like ICBM's, thermonuclear warheads, energy security and independence etc. Irrespective of the color of your skin, all threats to my country should be aware of repercussions before messing with us.

Some of the pacifists here keep talking of geopolitics has changed, it keeps evolving, time to forget the past, look at the China threat, look at the future, bla bla bla. The simple truth is, for as long as we as a species have existed, we have been territorial. In order to protect my country's territorial and national integrity we need not and should not trust anyone. We must be self reliant and self sufficient.

All this does not mean go into a shell and act like a horses arse, our nation is vibrant liberal and by nature we are mostly extroverts. We will trade, play sport, travel mix, share our arts and try to peacefully co-exist with other nations and as long as it last, we will cherish it.

 

[pmaitra]

I am not sure if the initial comment was directed at me, I have never demonized white people. Some of my best pals are white. Having said that I abhor American hegemony. I abhor hegemony by any nation and if my own nation were to practice it someday I will fight it.

This has nothing to do with the color of ones skin, though many of the greatest wrongs that were coincidentally committed were committed by Caucasians.

In order to ensure that India does not have to go through the shitpile it was dragged through by the British until 1947 and then by the West since then upto 9/11, I strongly believe that we should be wary of any strategic alliance with another country, especially the ones that mistreated us.

This singular reasoning is why I am opinionated on things like ICBM's, thermonuclear warheads, energy security and independence etc. Irrespective of the color of your skin, all threats to my country should be aware of repercussions before messing with us.

Some of the pacifists here keep talking of geopolitics has changed, it keeps evolving, time to forget the past, look at the China threat, look at the future, bla bla bla. The simple truth is, for as long as we as a species have existed, we have been territorial. In order to protect my country's territorial and national integrity we need not and should not trust anyone. We must be self reliant and self sufficient.

All this does not mean go into a shell and act like a horses arse, our nation is vibrant liberal and by nature we are mostly extroverts. We will trade, play sport, travel mix, share our arts and try to peacefully co-exist with other nations and as long as it last, we will cherish it.

It wasn't directed against you. Post #114 clarifies that. There is nothing for or against. I am asking everyone to stop demonising average Americans, or any particular ethnicity, just because few people in the US Foreign Department make decisions detrimental to Indian interests.

Now that you mentioned the British in your post, care to consider what role Roosevelt played w.r.t. India's independence?

 

[utubekhiladi]

OK GUYS



this thread has derailed. please lets show some maturity and get back to topic.

 

[SHASH2K2]

I support following China's example in regards to relations with the U.S.; that is, pursue close economic ties while staying away from defence/military ties. China understood very well that, if it pursued close defence ties with the U.S., its own influence would be greatly restricted. The U.S. does not allow any other country to come close to itself in capability, and this holds the same for its allies as well as its enemies. This is how all superpowers stay as superpowers.

Japan and South Korea are both the victims of excessive defence/security reliance on the U.S. We should not fall into the same trap.

you cannot blame USA for Japan and S korea. it was a fault on their end no the USA . After getting their ass whooped in world war 2 Japan is still no having aggressive military doctrine. USA will be more then happy if Japan and S korea become militarily aggressive.
In context of Australian military alliance I would say India act foolishly . Best option would have been to align ourself with them and get the maximum out of them instead of acting foolishly. we need natural resources and Australia has them in abundance , win win situation for both . Fools lives in past and wise men lives for future.

 

[Bangalorean]

It wasn't directed against you. Post #114 clarifies that. There is nothing for or against. I am asking everyone to stop demonising average Americans, or any particular ethnicity, just because few people in the US Foreign Department make decisions detrimental to Indian interests.

Now that you mentioned the British in your post, care to consider what role Roosevelt played w.r.t. India's independence?

Agreed.

I detest reverse-racism. The same people who indulge in reverse-racism are the ones who squeal the loudest when others make racist taunts or jibes against Indians.

Americans are ok - what I dislike are the wannabe Yankee(s)