India not keen on trilateral security pact with Australia, US

Galaxy

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Buddy I don't want to derail the thread. But still I believe its a decent third (or even 3.5 gen) fighter out there good for their defences. If not for the engine, those Bandars wont be flying and Russia provided the engines.
I know, May be.

I am not sure, But They would have bought that engine from Ukraine also if Russia would have denied. After U.S.S.R. collapse that technology was with both Russia and Ukraine.

So in any case, Pakistan would have got.

Anyway, There is noting called permanent friends only permanent interest. IMO, We need to have good relation with both U.S. and Russia. Taking one side won't serve our purpose as per Geo-political scenario is concerned.
 

Galaxy

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Russia is not the USSR. We have to get over that phase, we buy weapons, they get cash. End of story

A "friendly nation" would never say this : Pak is Russia's 'most important' partner in South Asia: Putin | Firstpost
Err......It was important and not most important. It was mistake from Indian news site. I checked that on Pak/Russian news site and it was only important and posted also sometime back.

What Putin is supposed to say in 1-to-1 meeting with Gilani in any common yearly meeting ?? :rolleyes:

Even Chinese official said many time, India is our important allies. Even Karzai said "Pakistan is our brother and India is our friend". That is different thing that in A'than culture Friends are more important than brothers. :rofl:

We are reading too much in between lines of diplomacy. 8)
 
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pmaitra

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err French , germans did not go into Iraq... your citizenship is being suspended...:p (j/k) They refused to go into Iraq...they went into afghanistan. Just because you are aligned you don't have to go into " all wars "
Thanks. My mistake and I'm sorry. It was Afghanistan.
 

LurkerBaba

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It was important and not most important. It was mistake from Indian news site. I checked that on Pak/Russian news site and it was only important and posted also sometime back.

What Putin is supposed to say in 1-to-1 meeting with Gilani in any common yearly meeting ?? :rolleyes:

Even Chinese official said many time, India is our important allies. Even Karzai said "Pakistan is our brother and India friend"

We are reading too much in between lines. 8)
It's quoted from Press Trust of India Pak 'most important' partner in South Asia: Putin - PTI -

Are you forgetting the naval exercise fiasco too? India has been drifting away from Russia for a long time
 

Galaxy

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It's quoted from Press Trust of India Pak 'most important' partner in South Asia: Putin - PTI -

Are you forgetting the naval exercise fiasco too? India has been drifting away from Russia for a long time
PTI is Indian.

I don't remember the exact link, But I checked all Pak site and everywhere it was Important that's it. Indian news agency did mistake while posting.

Well in changing environment, There is really some shift but that is more due to India's increasing demand and geo-political reason and not due to any drift between India-Russia relation.

As far as naval exercise, It happens sometime. They gave the reason. Next year, we will have both Naval as well as Army exercise.

Indian-Russian armies to conduct joint exercise


As i said, We need to maintain good relation with both Russia and U.S., Choosing one side won't be fruitful for us. Actually, We are in good position and there are very few countries who have equally good terms with both Russia and U.S. Isn't this our achievement and good diplomacy ??
 
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trackwhack

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All those advocating this alliance are better off wearing skirts. Grow some and learn to stand up and face the world if you want to be taken seriously. Do you think either the US or Russia or China need any allies to take on anyone? You may not want India to be counted as a nation that can stand on its own, I do.

We were a Non-Aligned Nation. When the USSR was fighting the Pashtuns, did we get involved? We could have and if we did the mujahideen would have been shitting bricks. But we did not. Because India does not get involved in others affairs. Hence we are Non-Aligned. It is a big deal. It is for the same reason that today we are able to trade both civilian and military goods with practically every nation in the world. Only fools would not acknowledge the value of the NAM.
 

Defcon 1

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All those advocating this alliance are better off wearing skirts. Grow some and learn to stand up and face the world if you want to be taken seriously. Do you think either the US or Russia or China need any allies to take on anyone? You may not want India to be counted as a nation that can stand on its own, I do.

We were a Non-Aligned Nation. When the USSR was fighting the Pashtuns, did we get involved? We could have and if we did the mujahideen would have been shitting bricks. But we did not. Because India does not get involved in others affairs. Hence we are Non-Aligned. It is a big deal. It is for the same reason that today we are able to trade both civilian and military goods with practically every nation in the world. Only fools would not acknowledge the value of the NAM.
All your arguments are most naive and foolish, let me take them one by one....

1. Yes, all US, Russia & China need allies, thats why US is using Israel and SA in middle east, Russia has resumed co-operation with Cuba & Syria, and China is using Pakistan & North Korea as proxies.....

2. Yes, we were a non aligned nation, and look where it has got us.....we were never able to sweeten relations with west, and now Russia, a long time friend of ours, is leaning more and more towards China & Pakistan as it sees them the perfect way to counter NATO, as we move towards NATO, Russia will move farther away from us, and we will be left with nothing......

3. We are able to trade not because of being non-aligned, we are able to trade because of our economy....non-alignment has got nothing to do with that, when we tested the nuclear bomb, we faced sanctions from the west, where was this non-alignment at that time?? the reason that they have now lifted up the sanctions is that, they want a cake of our huge market....

Now give me one sane argument in favour of non-alignment......this security pact was very much needed, we shouldn't have rejected it outright, an ambiguous reply would have left the world confused and guessing and that we could have kept it for opportune time......
 
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KS

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....

Now give me one sane argument in favour of non-alignment......this security pact was very much needed, we shouldn't have rejected it outright, an ambiguous reply would have left the world confused and guessing and that we could have kept it for opportune time......
Te NAM fanbois will most likely not understand this common logic.
 

KS

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According to some advocating non-alignment means that you have an inferiority complex and a 'Hanuman syndrome', whatever that is
You are putting words in my mouth.

Advocating NAM is not inferioroty complex..but advocating NAM because of the fear of ending up like Japan or SK is the inferiority complex. And not having confidence in your own self and fearing that you might end up as the puppet of US is the Hanuman Syndrome.
 

trackwhack

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All your arguments are most naive and foolish, let me take them one by one....

1. Yes, all US, Russia & China need allies, thats why US is using Israel and SA in middle east, Russia has resumed co-operation with Cuba & Syria, and China is using Pakistan & North Korea as proxies.....

Stupid response ... None of these nations need any of these puny states to fight an outright war.

2. Yes, we were a non aligned nation, and look where it has got us.....we were never able to sweeten relations with west, and now Russia, a long time friend of ours, is leaning more and more towards China & Pakistan as it sees them the perfect way to counter NATO, as we move towards NATO, Russia will move farther away from us, and we will be left with nothing......

How has Non-Alignment harmed us? Aligned to either of the cold war allies would have resulted in us being on one of two polar opposites. North Korea was an ally of the USSR. See what happened in the immediate aftermath of the Russian collapse. We dont need to move towards anyone. We get military hardware from the Russians, the US, the French, the British, the Israelis, the BRazillians and every goddam nation that we want to buy from.

3. We are able to trade not because of being non-aligned, we are able to trade because of our economy....non-alignment has got nothing to do with that, when we tested the nuclear bomb, we faced sanctions from the west, where was this non-alignment at that time?? the reason that they have now lifted up the sanctions is that, they want a cake of our huge market....

Of course Non-Alignment has nothing to do with trading civilian goods, but has a lot to do with trading in military goods.

Now give me one sane argument in favour of non-alignment......this security pact was very much needed, we shouldn't have rejected it outright, an ambiguous reply would have left the world confused and guessing and that we could have kept it for opportune time......
No, you give me one good argument to align with anyone. If we man aged to stay non-aligned for the most tumultuous period of our existence post independence, why should anything change now?
 

KS

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......We could have and if we did the mujahideen would have been shitting bricks. ...
Sorry to say..but in their terrain it is not the Mujaheddin who would have been shitting bricks..Honestly.

The IA maybe king of its own turf but not outside our home ground.

No, you give me one good argument to align with anyone. If we man aged to stay non-aligned for the most tumultuous period of our existence post independence, why should anything change now?
Because the world/geo-politics is not static that policies which worked somewhat ok half a century ago will work the same even now. :frusty:

If any of your fanbois think that India could single handedly handle the Chinese, I salute thee wisdom.
 
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Defcon 1

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No, you give me one good argument to align with anyone. If we man aged to stay non-aligned for the most tumultuous period of our existence post independence, why should anything change now?
1. Who said these states will use any other nation to fight a war, but alliances give a huge leverage over rival countries, just look how Russia is twisting NATO's arm by Cuba, Syria and threatening to close the supply route, they want them to shut down their missile program and they could not have done anything if there were no such proxy states...

2. How hasn't non-alignment harmed us, if u read about the economy of india in 80s you will know, remember arm twisting by IMF???? moreover this is an stupid argument, you can't come with anything in support of non-alignment so now are asking me to disprove it.....I am just saying it will be better to have two more allies on military front....

3. Talking about civilian goods, probably you don't remember how western countries such as France had put sanctions against us in past preventing import of fruits from india on grounds of human rights voilation....that was a direct result of non alignment....I could give you more examples, but you try to find some of them yourself.....

As I am telling we need allies to counter China, we need as many allies as we can have.....China can defeat us in more number of ways than you probably know, we don't have any long range submarine launched missiles and China can launch missiles at from far beyond the andamans, it would nice to have some patrolling subs of some friendly nations nearby, wouldn't it.......There are many other ways, and the military has devised different scenarios to simulate how we can be attacked, and to make our preps, these alliances come in handy...
 
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mayfair

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Still don't see how saying "We are unaware of any such proposal" amounts of outright rejection...

P.S. Do we have an emoticon for head scratching here?
 

W.G.Ewald

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Still don't see how saying "We are unaware of any such proposal" amounts of outright rejection...

P.S. Do we have an emoticon for head scratching here?
:confused:

Find it under [More]
 

trackwhack

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1. Who said these states will use any other nation to fight a war, but alliances give a huge leverage over rival countries, just look how Russia is twisting NATO's arm by Cuba, Syria and threatening to close the supply route, they want them to shut down their missile program and they could not have done anything if there were no such proxy states...

2. How hasn't non-alignment harmed us, if u read about the economy of india in 80s you will know, remember arm twisting by IMF???? moreover this is an stupid argument, you can't come with anything in support of non-alignment so now are asking me to disprove it.....I am just saying it will be better to have two more allies on military front....

3. Talking about civilian goods, probably you don't remember how western countries such as France had put sanctions against us in past preventing import of fruits from india on grounds of human rights voilation....that was a direct result of non alignment....I could give you more examples, but you try to find some of them yourself.....

As I am telling we need allies to counter China, we need as many allies as we can have.....China can defeat us in more number of ways than you probably know, we don't have any long range submarine launched missiles and China can launch missiles at from far beyond the andamans, it would nice to have some patrolling subs of some friendly nations nearby, wouldn't it.......There are many other ways, and the military has devised different scenarios to simulate how we can be attacked, and to make our preps, these alliances come in handy...
1) WE are not a hegemon, we dont need puppet states.

2) We surviuved the IMF intimidation, we are a donor now

3) Western countries like France are begging us to buy their stuff, begging us to sign a Free Trade agreement. Its been on the table for years but we've not signed it till we our negotiated conditions are met.

Thats the value of NAM. If we were aligned, we'd have been forced into a lot of shite that we did not like, including signing the NPT. I cant continue this debate. We dont need anyone to counter China. All we need to do is prove a credible nuclear deterrence and delivery system. We've got that but another round of testing wont do any harm. No one will mess with us.

Our rise as an economic power is a given. A billion productive people even oif lazy and underutilized is a lot of wealth. We dont need to suck up to anyone to ensure that.
 

trackwhack

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Still don't see how saying "We are unaware of any such proposal" amounts of outright rejection...

P.S. Do we have an emoticon for head scratching here?
I only quoted the title on all major newspapers.
 

Defcon 1

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1) WE are not a hegemon, we dont need puppet states.

2) We surviuved the IMF intimidation, we are a donor now

3) Western countries like France are begging us to buy their stuff, begging us to sign a Free Trade agreement. Its been on the table for years but we've not signed it till we our negotiated conditions are met.

Thats the value of NAM. If we were aligned, we'd have been forced into a lot of shite that we did not like, including signing the NPT. I cant continue this debate. We dont need anyone to counter China. All we need to do is prove a credible nuclear deterrence and delivery system. We've got that but another round of testing wont do any harm. No one will mess with us.

Our rise as an economic power is a given. A billion productive people even oif lazy and underutilized is a lot of wealth. We dont need to suck up to anyone to ensure that.
I don't see how a security pact amounts to sucking up to any nation......

Most of your arguments are not based on facts but arguments, which robs them off any credibility, like "we dont need puppet states" and "no one will mess with us" and that we would have been forced into signing NPT, did u forget that Israel also didn't sign NPT, Now according to you Israel should be non-aligned too. How can u say we don't need puppet states, did our foreign minister tell u that????

About being a donor, just look at the countries countries we are providing aid to, our major aid recipients are Afghanistan, Nepal & Myanmar, all three states which India wants to develop as strategic assets against pakistan or china, which has also started to bear fruits if u look at the recent events.......You need to come up with serious facts dude.....
 
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SHASH2K2

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Non aligned and India ? I guess we were playing gilli danda with USSR back in 80's . If our relationship with Russia was not that of an military ally then only thing it could be is a gilli danda partner.
 
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