India needs to revisit 1962 humiliation for catharsis

Discussion in 'China' started by huaxia rox, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    India needs to revisit 1962 humiliation for catharsis - Times Of India

    NEW DELHI: Any reading of the Sino-Indian war of 1962 does not look good for India. Whether it was Jawaharlal Nehru's misreading of Chinese intentions in the wake of his support to Tibet's rebellion, India's "forward policy" that meant different things to different people, Mao Zedong's desire to teach India a "lesson" or the subsequent national security paranoia that it bred in the Indian political and security systems ...1962 evokes mixed feelings in India even after half a century.

    But for India to grow out of the morass of humiliation, it's necessary to revisit that war, and perhaps admit to major blunders committed at every level, not least at the very top.

    In 1951, China began its occupation of Tibet, which, by 1959, became a full-throated conquest. Until 1959, India tried to diplomatically persuade Beijing to give some kind of autonomy to Tibet along with providing covert arms shipments to the Tibetan rebellion.

    India's discomfort stemmed from the fact that it believed the loss of Tibetan independence robbed New Delhi off an important buffer in the Himalayas. But Beijing viewed India's actions as interference in its internal affairs, and Mao ordered "harder approach" to India's meddling.

    In India, Nehru maintained the romance of Hindi-Chini friendship. A more realistic Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel proposed better border development, strengthening of the military presence etc and to better integrate the north-eastern states. John Garver, in Protracted Contest, writes, "Patel saw clearly the linkage between Tibet and what would become the crux of the border/territorial issue."

    Nehru looked at the inhospitable Tibetan terrain and decided first, not to push the Chinese too far, second that they would not be able to maintain troops in distant Tibetan plateau, and third that China would not engage in any major attack against India. However, he completely missed the technology argument, which China could and did.

    By 1959, a huge change came over Indian public opinion at China's open repression in Tibet, which led the Dalai Lama to flee to India in 1959. In April, 1960, Nehru reject Zhou Enlai's boundary settlement proposal. Mao was convinced India was working with the US and USSR against China. Contemporary Chinese thinking believed that India's desire to keep Tibet was the cause of the 1962 war. India has refused to declassify documents of that era.

    Nehru's forward policy, his demand that China vacate "all Indian territory" and his support of the Tibetan rebellion were all part of these classified docements. China had been active in Aksai Chin for over a decade before 1962. India was aware of Chinese activity there from 1951. But in 1953, Nehru decided to redraw the boundary that included Aksai Chin within India, as opposed to British policy of 1899, which kept Aksai Chin out of India. In 1957, Beijing's road building activities could not be ignored any longer, and India sent patrols to the area. It would be the beginning of the India-China conflict that would culminate in 1962.

    By 1961, Nehru's forward policy had taken shape, creating 60 forward posts, 43 of them north of the McMahon Line. Meanwhile, China, too, had been preparing for war with India because Mao wanted to teach India "a lesson".

    Indian units reported increased Chinese aggression, but the Nehru government did not read the tea leaves. China prepared for war, while India missed the clues. After intermittent clashes in the preceding days, when on October 20, 1962, China launched massive strikes in the north-east and Ladakh, India was completely caught off guard.

    The Himalayan war ended in a rout of Indian forces. Chinese then withdrew although their victory was not without cost. The defeat, however, changed India's view of China forever. India claims the moral high ground, blaming China for a stealthy strike but it completely misread its giant neighbour. Mao, who saw Nehru as a conniving and pretentious leader, began and ended the war on his own terms.

    In between, Indian troops suffered successive reverses. The People's Liberation Army (PLA) overran Indian positions south of the Mcmahon line. Chinese troops overwhelmed Indian defences by the sheer weight of numbers and Tawang was soon under attack.

    In the north-east, confusion and courage, foolhardiness and daredevilry were all playing out as a dazed military leadership dithered about its response. Major General A S Pathania, commanding the fourth division in Kameng in Arunachal Pradesh, ordered his troops to withdraw in humiliation.

    On October 24, 1962, Zhou offered Nehru a settlement that was rejected. Parliament passed a resolution resolving to "drive out aggressors" from Indian soil. Hostilities resumed with Chinese attacks on Sela and Bomdila. PLA was close to Tezpur, when China declared a unilateral ceasefire and withdrew 20km from the Line of Actual Control. According to Henry Kissinger, Mao did not see India as a perpetual foe, but famously remarked that force will "knock Nehru back to the negotiating table".
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    There are Wagah candle lighters in India.

    It is a democracy.

    They cannot be locked up and put away as it is done in some countries!
     
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  4. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    your are right....the defference is when indians invaded Hyderabad State chinese never thought of providing covert arms shipments to the local people there........which again shows while indians so care about their influence over tibet chinese just wouldnt give a crap to the killing situation in sub continent......
     
  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    What a juvenile comparison!

    China was under foreign rule and was forming up as a country?

    China formed up as an imperialist and expansionist nation all through its history.

    It was merely the territory North of the Yellow River.

    Did anyone send covert arms?

    So, could we have some logic?
     
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  6. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    so where did india start from in history???

    indus valley area???

    or british india???

    should i call it an expansionist nation??or made by westerner nation??

    share us with your logic......
     
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    You are so clever.

    You tell us.

    The Chinese after all know everything!

    The Middle Kingdom.

    All others are barbarian and the only civilisation is that of the Chinese.

    I have appended enough of this false arrogance of the Hans in so many threads.

    You seem to have turned blind to them!
     
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  8. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    yes....u talked so much about history......

    if your are right then no one will deny that......i never denied chinas terroriy is bigger than 3000 years ago.......who is asying not???any chinese here??? and we used to call someone barbarian in history.....who is denying this???? but are we still calling them today???

    its more like in history there was a Mughal empire that ruled a large sector of sub continent then today i still keep calling the area Mughal empire.......

    u cant distinguage whats history and whats today can u??

    now u answer me a simple question

     
  9. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    i think the author of this article in deed knows something about history.........many indians deny they armed tibetans in prc before 1962......and this author finally tells the truth........

    PLA had all the reasons to stop those invaders in 1962.....
     
  10. rockdog

    rockdog Regular Member

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    BJP to hold yatra in memory of 1962 martyrs - Times Of India

    India's BJP to pay homage to 'martyrs', not to provoke China - World News - SINA English

    October 20 will mark the 50th year of a brief Sino-Indian border conflict in 1962. Political powers in India are taking advantage of the 50th anniversary to expand their influence.

    Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) announced that 'Sahid Sardhanjali Yatra' will be held along the Sino-Indian border to pay homage to the ‘martyrs’ Wednesday.

    'Sahid Sardhanjali Yatra', scheduled from October 18, was aimed at paying homage to the ‘martyrs’ of the 1962 conflict and not aimed at provoking China, BJP said.

    "Our aim is not to provoke our neighbor, but to emotionally remember those 3,770 soldiers who laid down their lives for their motherland in the conflict," BJP National General Secretary Tapir Gao said at a press conference.

    Following BJP’s announcement, United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA) had sent emails to ask the people of Assam not to participate in the yatra as it would be a provocation for the neighbor, the Times of India reported Thursday.

    “There is no BJP leader who cares about people’s lives in Assam. We request them to cancel the activities they planned. We will never allow anyone to take Assam people hostage in their political games.” ULFA criticized BJP.

    “Assam has no threat from China. Besides, China has already far ahead of India in economy, military and technology. Any provocation to china, under this circumstance, would make Assam suffer the most,” the statement said.
    :rofl:

    Chinese translation here:
    印度在野党欲在印中边界纪念抗华烈士_多维新闻网
     
  11. rockdog

    rockdog Regular Member

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    repeated post
     
  12. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    please stop justiffying your aggression - you wanted to build a road to define the boundary and you did it in 1957 before any negotiations even started regardsless that it was indian territory - you just took it because you could .

    there is ( are ) simple explanation(s) to all this -, it (they ) hasnt ( havent) been discussed or even mentioned in all the threads we had on this topic so far .....but i wont give it (them) away ....sufffice it to say that it will be a v different relationship between india and chijcom as time goes forward

    ..... since independence in 1947 and today , india has transformed much more than china ...... and this is just the start
     
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  13. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    please stop justiffying your aggression - you wanted to build a road to define the boundary and you did it in 1957 before any negotiations even started regardsless that it was indian territory - you just took it because you could .

    there is ( are ) simple explanation(s) to all this -, it (they ) hasnt ( havent) been discussed or even mentioned in all the threads we had on this topic so far .....but i wont give it (them) away ....sufffice it to say that it will be a v different relationship between india and chijcom as time goes forward

    ..... since independence in 1947 and today , india has transformed much more than china ...... and this is just the start
     
  14. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    1 the author is not me.....i m just presenting the article here......

    2 its you who need to justify your wrong behavior in 1962......although in my opinion u can never.......
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  15. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    ULFA who pursues building a free and independent assam is deemed as a terrorist group by some indians.....
     
  16. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    you mean youre hiding behind her skirt ?

    the point i made is that in 1957, even before serious negotiations began , you simply went ahead and built the road and never were interested in any negotiations ... you did whatever you wanted ,. never mind "friendship" with india - not important - not a friend
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
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  17. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    the point you made exactly shows how logic is distorted in the mind of indians.....

    there were by and large 2 disputed areas before 1962 war.... aksai chin and zangnan (AP called by india)....while indians can build all the roads and infrastrture in AP why cant prc build the road in aksai chin??? share me with the logic would you?? u can do what ever u can and chinese cant do what ever we want???is that your logic???

    when chinese stayed within the de facto controlled area of aksai chin indians not only had occupied AP but had begun to adopt the forward north policy....gradually invading chinese lands and even going to the north of M line.....at the same time....prc didnt have any forward south policy and had never tried to push you guys to the south of AP until the war began.....

    so can u actually try a little bit of being logical.....who was the invader???? i know you cant but can you try??
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    In zangnan (whatever it be in fertile imagination), the Chinese can go doing a gangnam and they will still be mere jetsam and floatsam.

    Arunachal was always India.

    It was NEFA and not the humbug dream of some weird sounding name that is closer to a modern crazy dance!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
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  19. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    HR, you are not new to this forum, why are you still expecting reason from our Indian posters?
     
  20. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Looks locals don't agree with you!

    Of course since they are not indians and they don't want to be indians!
     
  21. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    Weren't chinese ruled by uyghurs / tukrs in ancient past....their pyramids all over china proves this and the so called hans have been keeping it a secret because it will put them to an historic shame??

    Weren't chinese ruled by mongols? who are actually real owners of china!!

    Din't china occupy independent Nation of Tibet illegally through aggression?

    And that proves china is no realistic entity just as the self proclaimed race called hans!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012

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