India needs to give up Cold War mindset: Chinese daily

Discussion in 'China' started by Srinivas_K, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    India needs to give up Cold War mindset: Chinese daily

    Beijing: India needs to "give up its Cold War mindset" so that ties with China can become promising, said a Chinese daily that noted democracy has become a burden for India's development. :troll:

    India is "a proud nation, competitive and unwilling to lag behind". It is eager to challenge China in every aspect, from aerospace, military force, to economic strength, said the Global Times Monday in an op-ed page article "India faces tests before it can overtake China".

    The daily said China is now providing a chance for both the countries' economic strength to ride high. The initiatives of the Silk Road Economic Belt and the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road, which were unveiled by Chinese President Xi Jinping, would build a massive trade and infrastructure network connecting East Asia with Europe, and provide an opportunity for a win-win bilateral cooperation.

    "But many people in India are still stuck with a Cold War mentality toward China. Apart from the remaining border disputes, they do not think the network, or any connection with China would benefit India. On the contrary, they are extremely vigilant, believing that the Chinese army may invade once a railway is built through the two states."

    It added: "What's more, they always doubt that China will interfere in the affairs of northeast India by supporting separatist militants. To be frank, they should stop over-thinking. China has no intention of interfering in the internal affairs of other countries."

    The article said that if India "could give up its Cold War mindset, China-India cooperation will be promising. Even if India does outrun China some day in the future, Beijing will give New Delhi its warmest congratulations".

    Many people consider China and India the engines of the development of Asia, some even regard them the engines of the world, it said.

    The daily said that Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's ambitious "Make in India" plan has been gradually put into practice, and India's economy has progressively recovered in the wake of economic reform measures.

    "Some predict that India will outrun China economically in 20 years, while some say 50 years. Granted, the economic picture in India is brightening, but it won't be easy for it to displace China as Asia's next economic giant," said the article compiled by a Global Times reporter based on an interview with Wang Dehua, head of the Institute for the Southern and Central Asian Studies, the Shanghai Municipal Center for International Studies.

    It noted that India's fast-growing population and inexpensive labour market have made it attractive for foreign investments and admitted: "India also enjoys a better marketization than China, and has been making life easier for local businesses."

    Nonetheless, New Delhi still has some barriers to overcome before taking the next big leap.

    "...democracy, which the nation is so proud of, has become a burden for development. For example, building a railway in India takes much more time than it does in China. Whenever policymakers decide to go in for large-scale construction, protests will be raised against it, mostly by opposition parties and groups.

    "The messy democratic tradition in India has made it hard to deliver a coherent approach to get every piece of big projects done."

    It went on to say that India "has not found a way yet to get around the problem of the polarization of wealth and corruption remains rampant".

    "From the Bofors scandal that involved then prime minister Rajiv Gandhi in the 1980s, to a spate of scandals under former prime minister Manmohan Singh in 2012, corruption has been rocking India's society while hampering its growth."


    India needs to give up Cold War mindset: Chinese daily | Zee News


    The idea that Democracy is a burden for India is an absurd since most of the developed nations are democratic and liberal regimes. India and China have very good business relations and India wants to continue the economic relations with China and also want Chinese market access.

    Regarding Silk road initiative "there is no such thing as maritime silk route in the past but there is a thing called India which used to be a rich land and major bussiness centre that attracted the european states to explore seas when Ottoman empire blocked/kept control of the sea routes and bussiness from the east"
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Democracy is always to be taken as a burden by those who have been like the oxen staked to the pole and going round and round to grind the oilseeds to produce oil. What would such oxen know what is freedom?

    Give the slowdown of the Chinese economy and industry relocating elsewhere in Asia, and Modi's strident move to bring India up in it tryst to its destiny, cold fear has struck the heart of China that the Chinese march that it enjoyed is shrivelling up and thus they use their usual pious platitudinous approach in stating - India is "a proud nation, competitive and unwilling to lag behind". It is eager to challenge China in every aspect, from aerospace, military force, to economic strength, said the Global Times Monday in an op-ed page article "India faces tests before it can overtake China".

    It is also a fact that worries China, that India has no ambition of world domination as China and acceptable being a democracy which makes India more acceptable area where Western industry will make inroads abandoning China big time. Germany latest pronouncement of interest in India is a case in point.

    Corruption in India? By a long chalk, China fares no better, if Xi's campaign and the unearthing of corruption in high places is anything to go by. Given the China is a closed society where nothing leaks out, the reality of corruption and discontent in China remains yet to unravel to show the filthy side of Chinese society and the Chinese Nation,
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
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  4. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    India has no issue with economic ties and co operation in various fields with China. However India has its sensitivities when it comes to S.Asia and India believes talks with China will clear the air between the two oldest civilizations.
     
  5. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    LOL... so called Chinadaily source actually it is from the Global Times... LOL, and we could read the original one instead of some kind of 'retelling' by Indian media...

    India faces tests before it can overtake China - Global Times

    India faces tests before it can overtake China

     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
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  6. Keshav Murali

    Keshav Murali Back to studies :( Senior Member

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    If I am not mistaken, "Global times" is a darn Chinese daily. What do you want to say here? That you don't even know one of your own newspapers?

    Global Times - Wiki
     
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  7. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    China daily is the Key papers for the national voice which is Rigorous and precise.

    Global Times is the tabloid with loads of Claptrap and BS for profit or some kind of fun for some group of audiences.
    ..not very accurate, less rigorous...and very unProfessional for most of people...
     
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  8. Keshav Murali

    Keshav Murali Back to studies :( Senior Member

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    "Global times" is a "Chinese daily".

    The Indian paper was talking about a Chinese daily, not exactly "China daily"
     
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  9. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, China is trying to potray India as having mindset issue to justify the not so warm diplomatic stance between both countries. They always do everything to ensure that China's Stance is right and
    1) the rest (neighbours) has mis interpreted the great chinese gesture for cooperation.
    2) Lack of trust towards China that include "mindset issue" (A new invention from Chinese) that is hindrance to cooperation.
    3) Miscommunication from part of others on Chinese gestures like intrusion etc etc.

    Where as the Chinese gesture and trust deficit is very real as real can get which is that of an expansionist and a shameless photocopy machine.

    Any media news comin out of China is wetted by their Chinese Gods to vector into their propaganda.


    Ps: For all those cute ones who says.its old news article to counter reality check - Sweetie, the issue stated in here are very much alive today, so information is the boss!!

    ============

    -===

    Why China can't be trusted -- the view from a former top secret military planner, stealth pilot

    Have you ever watched a Chinese shadow play? Silhouettes in muted colors play upon a fabric screen to the sighing tones of a bowed instrument and the stilted beating of a rattle drum. A warrior in deep blue fights a rival, all in red. They twirl and clash, leading your eyes to one corner of the screen.

    Meanwhile, a shadow grows in the opposite corner, but you don’t notice because the puppeteer has your attention fixed. Then, with the loud crash of a cymbal, the music stops, and a great, forest green dragon appears at center stage, breathing purple fire.

    You jump, startled, and smile at the puppet master’s skill.

    A similar shadow is growing in one corner of the world stage. While our attention remains fixed on the antics in the Middle East, a monstrous threat grows unattended across the Pacific. This time, when the music stops, there will be nothing to smile about.

    The Central Committee and the PLA will lie, cheat, steal, and bully to accomplish their goal of dominance.

    The shadowy tendrils of Chinese power are reaching farther than ever before.

    The PLA is executing a gradual and very deliberate expansion into the Pacific, sending out more ships and setting up surface-to-air and surface-to-surface missile systems for area denial.

    Simultaneously, President Xi Jinping, and the Central Committee are pressing territorial claims against islands and reefs close to the Philippines and Japan – even setting up military garrisons on their rocky shores.

    These actions are designed to change the status quo in the Pacific, and the United States is allowing it. Despite pleas for help from our allies, the Obama administration has staunchly refused to pick a side.

    The Central Committee is also targeting the U.S. and other national economies through underhanded business practices and unbalanced trade policies. Most US markets are open to China, but China is only slowly reciprocating – and at a cost.

    In order to participate in Chinese markets, U.S. companies must shift manufacturing across the Pacific or hand over trade secrets, only to be quickly undersold by Chinese companies.

    The macroeconomic view is even worse.

    China buys massive amounts of U.S. Treasury notes in order to manipulate the price of the dollar. Sadly, that makes China our biggest lender, giving the communist Central Committee heavy sway with our politicians.

    Perhaps most brazen of all, China is conducting open cyber war, infiltrating U.S. government and corporate computer networks.

    The largest coordinated cyber attack the world has ever seen came in 2009 when hackers infiltrated the networks of several major corporations, including Northrop Grumman – the creators of the B-2 Stealth Bomber.

    Operation Aurora, as the attack is known, and hundreds of other attacks have been linked to Chinese hacker groups with names like the Elderwood Group and Hidden Lynx.

    According to the Economist, the Virginia-based firm Mandiant traced some of these cyber attacks to a PLA organization they call Unit 61398.

    The Chinese government connection is traceable and undeniable but, once again, there has been no significant response by the U.S. government.

    To understand why these events are so unsettling, we must understand the ethical framework in which the Central Committee and the PLA operate.

    Essentially, they have none.

    Their moral compass points toward one guiding star: Chinese dominance.

    One might argue that there are moderates and progressives in China, but that is just a matter of semantics. Those words cannot be taken in the traditional Western context.

    A Western military hawk favors direct confrontation for the sake of national defense. In China, the hawks favor outright military expansion, and not just in regard to Taiwan.

    In 2005, China’s former Minister of National Defense allegedly went so far as to recommend an invasion of the United States.

    True or not, such hardline sentiments definitely hover just below the surface of the Chinese military leadership.

    Recently a high-ranking general in China’s nuclear corps appeared at the forefront of a conspiracy of torture and political intimidation aimed at removing less hawkish political rivals. Inexplicably, he remains in command.

    Like the hawks, the moderates and progressives in China are not made in the Western image. They are not interested in international cooperation unless it gives China a foothold for gain, and they do not care one whit for human rights.

    Theirs are the voices pushing China’s economic expansion – not for the welfare of the Chinese people, but because they believe economic expansion is the proper way to capture the world’s resources.

    They have the same goal as the hawks. They only differ in their methods.

    The full spectrum of Chinese leadership is Machiavellian. You will never hear a single one of them utter the phrase, “Do the right thing,” even in Mandarin.

    The Central Committee and the PLA will lie, cheat, steal, and bully to accomplish their goal of dominance.


    The examples listed above are clear evidence, but I can offer my own first hand account. In 2006, I was the Stealth Bomber operations liaison to Valiant Shield – a massive Pacific exercise.

    During a visit by numerous foreign officers, I was cornered by two Chinese generals. With a barrage of rapid-fire questions they attempted to trip me up and get me to reveal classified details about the B-2.

    The episode would have been comical, had the consequences of failure not been so serious.

    A reciprocal attempt by a U.S. general to intimidate a young Chinese officer would have sparked a huge diplomatic incident, but Western officers don’t behave that way.


    The Chinese know that, and like the permissive U.S. market and the conciliatory international policies of the current US administration, they see it as a weakness to be exploited.

    How long will we ignore the growing shadow? When will we turn at least some of our attention from the Middle East and acknowledge the talons reaching out from Asia?

    One day there will come a resounding cymbal crash. We will all jump, startled, and then we will stare in horror at the overwhelming form of the shadow dragon – a creature with no ethic beyond feeding its own fire.

    James R. Hannibal is a former US Air Force Stealth Bomber pilot and the author of Shadow Catcher from Berkley Books and Brilliance Audio.

    Why China can't be trusted -- the view from a former top secret military planner, stealth pilot | Fox News

    ===
    The whole world has a mindset issue according to Chinese , where in essence they are as harmless as cold Chinese atta noodles. :bs:
     
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  10. Nicky G

    Nicky G Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sheer hubris from a superpower wannabe.

    India doesn't grow so that it can compete with China but to prosper as a nation and improve the lives of her people while safeguarding her interests. If and when we overtake China is really no more important than when we take over European countries. We are eager to challenge ourselves and anyone else by extension.

    Regarding democracy, obviously it has inherent problems, particularly that enemies can and have exploited; however its much better than suppressing people to ensure faster growth for few at the top. Growth is critical, but balanced growth is just as important. In the long run, in today's world, every country that grows will eventually increasingly adopt democratic principles as China is beginning to find out. Try having another Tiananmen square incident now.

    As for Chinese, we shouldn't trust them beyond a business transaction, not because of some outdated cold-war mindset but due to the hegemonic tendency of the superpower wannabe.
     
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  11. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    FOX NEWS, is your source? The neo-conservative republican propaganda mouth-piece? Everything that article just attacked China for, the US had been doing for decades. So forgive me for rolling my eyes at your American "Global Times" equivalent.


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  12. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Does India has Cold War mindset, or China is left with no arguments to back this debate, hence keep harping on a worthless issue.

    India as a matter of fact was victim of Soviet - US rivalry from 1950 to 1989. It was courted by both but dumped by both when push came shove. US dumped India when they sent the US 7th Fleet to Bay of Bengal in 1971 and thru out this period , Soviet could offer nothing concrete except Veto in the Security Council.

    US betrayed India, when they picked a Communist state for development which only twenty years back had killed 29,000 Americans in Korean War. They could have very well picked a democratic India. Had they picked India and opened its coffers for a trillion and half dollar FDI in a matter of twenty years, it will India with modern infrastructure and industry and Chinese would still be living in communes. Money changes the fate of anybody. For Americans, it did not make any difference. They needed cheap goods made with cheap labour and India had it in plenty. In addition Indian spoke English and could boast of an ancient culture even more ancient than Chinese. Now it is the American who have to deal with dictatorial Chinese.

    Soviets, immediately after flying their Sputniks, began to feel the pinch of monetary backwardness. They were technically highly competent, but a bunch of old men in Kremlin did not know how to channel people's creative energies into economic miracle. They were loosing the battle. Hence other than offering all kinds of diplomatic and political support, they had nothing else to offer. India was continuously by associating with the Soviets until their collapse was accused by Americans of having a Cold War mindset.

    US after 1980 just forgot about dead and injured Americans by the Chinese in Korean War. They went full steam ahead and aided China. India was accused of being on the Soviet side (patently wrong) and was accused, again falsely, of running a Soviet aided Socialistic system. They ignored that private sector in India was three times bigger in India compared to Soviet style government owned factories. Chinese by comparison in 1980 was completely socialistic.

    Precisely that mind set, US has not been able to get over still in 2015.

    What Chinese have picked up, after running out of Ideas to debate, an old and dumped idea of India having a Cold War mindset. I believe the Chinese intellectuals need to be sent to the Mao Tse Tung styled re-education camps, where their outlook be refashioned to modern times.
     
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  13. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    india will
    the minute ccp-china gives up its deceptive "friendship" policy
    while at the same time arming packland to the teeth
    and transgressing indian territory a few hundred times per year

    withdraws form aksai and stops claiming other indian territories

    the minute ccp-china gives up its deceptive "peace" with us
    meanwhile cultural exchanges, etc with ccp is a waste of friendship
    cultural exchanges with even pakistan is better
    at least they dont pretend to be a friend
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
  14. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is no cold war mentality in India. I have not seen any. The fact is rather that India is one of the most under-militarized nation. India is far from realizing its military potential.

    It is natural for Chinese to misunderstand India as China is basically an inward-looking society. India is also inward-looking to a great extent.

    I do not think India-China relationship can be defined by Siachen or Tibet. The relationship will be defined by cultural and economic relationship eventually. However nothing can be said for the short term, as China remains set on its grand ambitions.
     
  15. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Cold Peace is more precise for the status quo than cold war.

    What's needed is to maintain the "peace and tranquility" in btwn, no more no less. The priority like I advocate time and again shall be given to easing tensions with Japan for East Asia Co-prosperity. The skewed attention to dilly-dally with India is a waste of time.
     
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  16. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yeah Fox news or any news which tells about the other side of the story which states the fact is good. Well..I quoted a source which is NOT from behind the Great firewall of China which ofcourse is always he propaganda of CPC and communist Gods of yours.
    :)

    Every information coming to you is wetted by your Commy Gods!

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ime-uses-web-censorship-strengthen-state.html
    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...et-new-censorship-campaign-has-commenced.html
    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...outside-newspaper-over-censorship-demons.html

    Well!!! Look whose talking about propaganda!!!
     
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  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Fox News is rather harsh on China

     
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  18. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    China must get rid of it's version of History according to which Atlantis was a Chinese territory.
     
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  19. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Its sad how you still think propaganda is just a "commie tool" to suppress the masses, when your news source is an outright partisan (Republican), neo-conservative, right wing, Rupert Murdock owned media house; that BTW advocated invading everyone from Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, or Arming the Syrian rebels/ISIS, the Ukrainian govt or further surveillance powers for the state etc etc. to further boost the profits of the US military industrial complex.

    Propaganda/disinformation is not unique to the CCP, and its use is widespread in US mainstream media.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Pentagon_military_analyst_program

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/us/20generals.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5?IR=T

    Your article is written by a pentagon military-spokesperson advocating for more US military funding and expenditure in the Pacific theater to counter some new "axis of evil" bogey man despite 60% of the USN and tens of thousands of US personnel already deployed there.

    http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/thaad-er-search-mission



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    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  20. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    What I take it..Pentagon Mil Spokesperson...doesnt matter if he is talking about USA's geostrategic objectives. Makes such article more authentic, than article written by paid Party worker .a.k.a jounalist from china.

    C'mon dont be sad..its a reality that the news coming from China is a commie propaganda and its a very well known fact . In other cases or rest of the world, we have free media...and there can be a contradiction. Well, this is one fact..the contradiction I meant..is what the China cant take very well. They can whine...but who cares!
     
  21. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    So you prefer your propaganda coming from a PAID, on-contract Pentagon mouthpiece than a "commie" party worker?

    Isn't it still propaganda?

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Pentagon_military_analyst_program

    Eg: watch "Spyder" Marks trying to push for NATO escalation with Russia along its borders and in the Black Sea on CNN. I love his "it doesn't matter" line.



    So here we are again, with Pentagon spokesmen making a case for war with Russia over Ukraine(a crises created by the US State Department and the CIA), and China, over the SCS or Taiwan or The Diaoyutai's (all crises' created by the US through the San Francisco Treaty).

    Yet you still call the news outlets that brazenly sold the civil War in Ukraine, the Iraq war and the destruction of Libya to Americans and the World with lies and disinformation, the "FREE" media. Joke of the year so far :D


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