India must save Pakistan

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by ejazr, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    India must save Pakistan

    Sudheendra Kulkarni

    Pakistan is in need of help. India alone can provide the help—and will also benefit from this. Pakistan faces the danger of self-destruction if it fails to make amends with its folly of mounting the tiger of Islamic extremism. Look at the bizarre events that led to, and have followed, the assassination of Salman Taseer, the governor of Punjab and a courageous voice of secularism, last week. Which civilised nation can have a blasphemy law of the kind that has disgraced Pakistan? Taseer was killed because, in an atmosphere of fear created by the forces of religious terrorism, he stuck his neck out to call it a “black law” and pleaded for presidential clemency for a poor Christian woman who has been sentenced to death under that law. Shamefully, not only have a large number of clerics justified his killing, but they, and a significant section of Pakistan’s civil society, have also idolised his killer as a holy warrior.

    A blizzard of bigotry is sweeping across Pakistan. This is evident from Taseer’s assassination, the likelihood of more secular critics of the blasphemy law being killed in the months ahead, the sword of the death sentence hanging over the hapless Christian woman, and the many religiously inspired extra-judicial killings of non-Muslims and Muslims accused under the law. It is also evident from the long series of ghastly terrorist attacks on religious places and followers of minority communities, and also of Muslim communities deemed to have deviated from the path of “pure Islam”. If only a partially Talibanised Pakistan can look so scary, a Pakistan under the complete control of the forces of religious terrorism—a distinct possibility—will undoubtedly pose a far graver threat to itself, to India, and to the world at large.

    Before it is too late, India must devise, and assiduously work on a strategy to stabilise and save Pakistan. India must help Pakistan strengthen its democracy; make its generals subservient to the people’s rule; and defeat the forces of Islamic extremism without wishing to break its unity or to erase its Muslim identity.

    Why India? Because no outside power can be a true friend of Pakistan or of other nation-states in the Indian subcontinent. Outside powers are mostly interested in taking advantage of the hostility between India and Pakistan, as has been clearly shown by our troubled history since 1947. The longer India and Pakistan continue to look, and act as incorrigible enemies of one another, the stronger the nexus between Pakistan’s religious extremists and its military rulers will become. This will only accelerate the process of Talibanisation of Pakistan, and also the consequent export of terror to India.

    There is yet another reason why India alone can help our hapless neighbour. We are both products of a common cultural, spiritual and civilisational heritage, and the unifying and regenerative power of that ancient heritage is far from exhausted. A tragic situation in our recent history, which was precipitated and exploited by our common colonial master, created Pakistan and India as two separate nation-states. But there is no reason why we must treat as unchangeable a flawed design that was imposed on us, and which our forefathers accepted out of a combination of myopia and helplessness, at the end of the colonial era.

    India should pursue three bold ideas to help Pakistan and itself.

    Firstly, India must strongly oppose America’s continued military occupation of Afghanistan and also condemn its drone attacks on innocent civilians in Pakistan. It is high time we Indians realised that the US has aided the rise of religious extremism in Pakistan both by supporting the Taliban covertly in the 1980s, and also by fighting it overtly now. Indeed, America would do itself good by leaving Afghanistan, Pakistan and India to manage our own affairs, and resolve our own disputes. Moreover, today’s economically weakened America has no stomach for prolonging its unwinnable war in Afghanistan. Therefore, here is an opportunity for India to play the role of a benign leader in South Asia, by winning the confidence of the peoples of neighbouring countries.

    India’s ability to play the leadership role, and thereby establish a new design for a secular, democratic and cooperative South Asia, critically hinges on early resolution of the Kashmir dispute. The longer Kashmir remains strife-torn, the more oxygen it will provide to religious extremists in Pakistan and also to anti-India sections in its armed forces. Therefore, there is an urgent need to intensify efforts in India for a national consensus on resolution of the Kashmir dispute.

    The third bold idea is to unleash the power of Indianised Islam to bring the Muslims of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh into a closer fraternity, not as a dominant or separate community enjoying exclusive rights and a privileged status over others (such as is given by the blasphemy law in Pakistan) but as an equal member of a secular, multi-religious subcontinental family. This calls for a new confederal constitutional arrangement between India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, in which the three countries remain sovereign and yet adhere to the common principles of justice, secularism, democracy and protection of minorities in their territories. In other words, Pakistan and Bangladesh must be re-absorbed and re-integrated into the Idea of India, with this important recognition that Islam is as much a part of the idea of India as Hinduism and other faiths are.

    Only those people remake history who pursue a bold and enlightened vision.

    -----------------------------------

    For those who don't know the author, Sudheendra Kulkarni was former Political advisor to the BJP and has been a close aide to both Vajpayee and Advani. Kulkarni has recently quit the BJP however.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
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  3. Vikramaditya

    Vikramaditya Regular Member

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    why we help a terrorist country
    So tomorrow they destabilized India..
    :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
     
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Cannot but disagree. India should help alrite but to push pak into disintegration. I think that part has been discussed quite a bit. India cannot help pak stabilize right now and help it tide over its current predicament only to face it off again thereafter. I am sorry we cannot trust pak one bit. india and world would be better off without it.
     
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  5. Vikramaditya

    Vikramaditya Regular Member

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    If pakistan divide further, suppose Baluchistan and sindh get independent then India will get direct access to Iran to middle east. Economically and politically stable pakistan is not in India's interest.More money in pakistan bank account will create more problem for India.
     
  6. Indianrabbit

    Indianrabbit Regular Member

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    Too much hypothetical imaginary discussion. Pakistan is going no where and India should do nothing.
     
  7. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The article is written by a BJP functionay and puts forward some interesting view points, lets critique those points rather than blank statements

    Let me delve into the three bold ideas to help Pakistan and India that Kulkarni articulates

    (1) Oppose US intervention in Afghanistan and Pakistan: Can India really play a role here? Is it really helpful for US to draw down its presence? I don't think so. I agree that US has played a massive role in not only radicalisation but providing training and capacity building to various militant groups within Pakistan that have then come to harm India. But a drawdown by the US is not good at THIS point in time.
    Infact, the disastrous war in Iraq instead of having a laser like focus on Af-Pak made India's position worst. This was probably the biggest mistake of the Bush administration and has directly hurt India in more ways than one

    (2) Resolve the Kashmir issue. This has been well known for a while now. But first I belive a final settlement is not possible in the near term. What can be done is that we have some sort of arrangement that may eventually lead to a settlement. Musharraf has the backing of the Army when the 4point formula was being formulated, so there is no reason why this can't be taken up again.
    But botton line is LoC will have to be IB. Making it irrelevant or not will be the negotiating point.

    (3) Using the Indian muslim community to moderate extremist in Pakistan. This is an interesting idea. The Wikileaks cables have shown that the US has with its extensive intelligence networks also agreed that Indian muslims are much more moderate than their counterparts in different parts of the world. I would also add that this should open a dialouge of minority rights as well and an exchange of Religious tourism where Hindu and Sikh devotees can visit religious sites in Pakistan and/or Bangladesh and vice versa for muslims. When the original seminaries in Deoband and Barelley tell their counterparts in Pakistan what they are doing vis a vis blasphemy laws, suicide bombings e.t.c. is wrong, there is a possibility that moderate forces will gain a better hand.
    But will this be enough? At present, any attempt at people-to-people contact is seen as a conspiracy by the ISI and I doubt this can go ahead atleast in the near future. Atleast till the US withdrawal plan and a settlement in Afghanistan, the ISI/Army will be too busy trying to see every move India makes with suspicion.
     
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  8. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Even if India saves Pakistan, Pakistan is going to back stab India a thousand times. So why save a snake who is going to bite you???

    A common notion is that extremism if takes over Pakistan may spill over to India, hence we have to save it. The chances are it may happen but then India is not going to stand by watch these guys cross the border. Have a look at Iran who borders the most volatile region in the world and surviving. India can do the same.

    Hence we must make sure the insects ( extremism ) eat the snake ( Pakistan ) eventually killing it and India then gets chance to kill the insects once for all.
     
  9. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    By and large I do agree with mr sudheendra kulkarni’s sentiment on india having some stake in having a Pakistan that does not get taken over by religious fanatics, where democratic process can be strengthened, where extremism that has over taken that country needs to be slowly eradicated but for now the things seem to have gone just a little too over board for india to step in and india’s interference could only further deteriorate a situation which can at best be described precarious.

    Look at the irony that for now has engulfed pakistan,there is a wave of extremism that has taken over to the extent these very extremists who are spread all over the space call themselves the as the enlightened moderates and by saying that they like to suggest the whole Pakistani society is a moderate one. Fact of the matter is by largely international standards Pakistan is turning into an extremist ideologue state, but the same has not got drilled into the heads of Pakistanis who have only lowered the bar of “moderate” tolerance level to the extent even killings are now being justified. Imagine a state calling it self moderate where the ahmedis are not called muslims officially and a moderate takes pride in this justification and tries to be a part of such a justification and this is just one of those very moderate examples.

    Looking at this paradox, is there any hope for Pakistan to turn its back towards extremism? I for one have started having doubts and if india were to interfere in any which way it would only add to the sense of suspicion, mistrust and hatred for we would be seen as people who further want to malign them and do bad for them as such conspiracy theories are the order of the day there, so may be the best we can do is sit tight and prepare for a far worsened situation, hopefully that is something we are working on and are not caught off guards without a contingency plan as has happened quite a few times in the past, and one needs to have layers of such plans and people who can execute them well.

    If today india was to change its stance on American occupation of a’stan and make a public statement on the drone attacks in Pakistan condemning it then that to being with makes us in a way interfere in the affairs of another state and this would also put us in a confrontation with the US which is at best avoided and would be a self goal. In Pakistan our shifted stand would be shown as a moral loss on part of india and india trying to save its skin, which is how the Pakistani state propaganda works, each time india wanted to talk ceasefire in any war or talk peace on Kashmir with Pakistan, it was always portrayed as a sign of Pakistani victory and Indian loss with the truth never known to the average Pakistani and this time again it would be no different.

    If it is alone about a’stan then india was never seen as an occupier or a part of the problem but a friendly country, even the fanatics there don’t out rightly despise india or see india as a problem, but if it is about Pakistan, the best india do is let them be on their own and if they are heading towards the worse just let them head that way.

    What would be the solution on Kashmir be? The 4 points raised by musharraf? If that is the one, rest assured it will never be accepted by Pakistanis and all hell will break lose in that country and if that was to mean at some point Pakistan going to war with india then why give those fanatics a chance to unify?

    To the third point, well in that case mr kulkarni doesn’t really know how a Indian muslim is seen by a Pakistani muslim, he needs to have a better learning on that and only then raise that point. About reunification, well only if pigs had wings they would fly!

    Ejazr, the author has had a political graph which has touched all corners of political ideology. He started with the communists and was quite a leftist then, then joined the bjp an association that lasted till last general elections where after a debacle he parted ways else he was to face action since he was one of the prime advisor to advani in his campaign and is now with the congress and someone who lost face post those elections and even congress didnt quite absorb him but just used him for a while.
     
  10. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    So Kulkarni is no longer with the BJP? I know he had an editorial post 2009 elections that was a bit hardnosed at the BJP line but did not know he quit.

    I will edit my post to update his realtion with the BJP
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  11. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    from what i could gather he was getting caught in a cross fire between jaswant singh, yashwant singh, murli manohar joshi, arun shourie etc on one side and the advani camp on the other and thought or was advised by the advani camp that rather than be made an example to part ways and who knows to be re-inducted at a later stage, you know how political parties work.

    he was later on used by the congress to counter the bjp on various talk shows, not sure if he is still in a way representing them or is providing an independent view but my thought would be now he is putting across a more independent point of view.
     
  12. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pakistan's case is not merely a question of balancing the moderates vs the extremists,it represents a deeper fracture a that exists and which continues to gather pace over the question national ideological foundation.To begin with Pakistan's raisondetere as a nation for indian Muslims was fundamentally flawed,as i was mentioning in another thread(now defunct because many lost posts)the Pakistan movement in the 30' and 40's was a reaction to the indian independence movement who basis was the vision of Hindu India as nation as distinct and eminently qualified for a status as nation state as any European state,hence its right to be independent and sovereign(It was unfortunate the Hindu leadership the had failed to expand the idea to other Muslim brethren,which the British duly exploited)

    The flaw in the Pakistan movement was very evident when Pakistan failed to become the homeland for all the Muslims of the indian subcontinent,this was further exacerbated when the state of Pakistan stopped accepting anymore Muslim refugees coming from India.

    Since its inauspicious beginning Pakistan has been driven into state of confusion over its national identity and the ideology that ought to bind it.Since Islam could not inject a sense of nationhood,Pakistan pushed sub cultural identities to the the national fore(the argument that it represented the the majority Punjabi,Sindhi,Pakhtun,Balochi,Bengali Muslims)when these subcultural units began to assert and squabble,Pakistan slided towards Punjabi majoritarianism(with the backing of a Punjabi dominated army),the breakaway of east Bengal put paid to an extent the cause of Punjab as the unifying factor and Pakistan began the process retracing its national identity back to the tenets of Islam..

    Pakistan has two choice either completely and unequivocally identify itself on the premise of Islam(much like Iran)which would invariably exasperate the tenuous peace that exist between various strong subcultural groups or allow nationalism centered around and dominated by subcultural groups to take precedence,which invariably would bring the overwhelming majority Punjabis into conflict with other subcultural groups,leading to east Bengal kind of imbroglio.

    India's best option(hypothetically speaking) in this situation,which also serves our interest, is to probably encourage Pakistan's subcultural groups(all four of them)to establish nominal sovereignty,with India looking after the external defense or acting as a guarantor against conflict between these putative sovereign entities.
     
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  13. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    what a stupid question save pakistan for what

    well i would like to tell a real story once upon a time a farmer was living one day he saw a sanke was in danger farmer show kindess toward snake and took with him but as nature snake bite him and he died

    moral of stroy sanke and bad human are equall kill them from they kill you
     
  14. bhogta

    bhogta Regular Member

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    Come on , we have our on problem. They don't even want our help. If we want to help them that will give more power to militant. The best help we can give is keep quiet. But honestly we let them go to hell. If required then spray some fuel in fire. They earn it every bit. Let take revenge for our dead country men and women.
     
  15. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    what an idiot!!!

    i would rather tear pakistan apart with my own bare hands.
     
  16. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Help Balochistan, not Pakjabistan!
     

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