India Must Choose Both China and Japan

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Rushil51, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. Rushil51

    Rushil51 Regular Member

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    On the eve of the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Japan, a think-tank in New Delhi hosted a conference on China entitled a “New Type of Partnership Between Big Powers: Sino-Indian Relations.” The conference was organized by the Observer Research Foundation (ORF) in collaboration with the China Foreign Affairs University (CFAU). The seminar deliberated on the ways and means to deepen the relationship between the two Asian powers in the changing geopolitical atmosphere.

    The topic of China loomed large during Prime Minister Modi’s four day trip to Kyoto and Tokyo in Japan. Every statement and agreement made in Japan could be interpreted through the prism of India’s relations with China. For example, Prime Minister Modi said that “everywhere around us, we see an 18th century expansionist mind-set: encroaching on another country, intruding in others’ waters, invading other countries and capturing territory.”

    China did not take Modi’s statement in good spirit. A Chinese state-owned newspaper, Global Times, noted in an editorial that “Japanese and Western public opinion view Modi’s remarks as a clear reference to China, although he did not mention China by name. This interpretation made some sense because Modi is more intimate to Tokyo emotionally. Therefore, it is perhaps a fact that he embraces some nationalist sentiments against China.”

    The editorial further added that “the increasing intimacy between Tokyo and New Delhi will bring, at most, psychological comfort to the two countries. What is involved in China-India relations denotes much more than the display of the blossoming personal friendship between Modi and Abe. After all, Japan is located far from India. Abe’s harangue on the Indo-Pacific concept makes Indians comfortable. It is South Asia where New Delhi has to make its presence felt. However, China is a neighbor it can’t move away from. Sino-Indian ties can in no way be counterbalanced by the Japan-India friendship.”

    Indian foreign policy cannot afford to develop close relations with Japan at the cost of China. Even though Beijing has traditionally been seen as a rival to India, India cannot discount the fact that a deeper economic and strategic relationship with China is a must in order for it to realize its domestic economic interests and geopolitical vision. This is despite the fact that China is a one-party Communist state while India is the world’s largest democracy.

    Contrary to the popular view that a deeper engagement with Tokyo is important to balance the rising influence of China in Asia, New Delhi would lose out by advocating this worldview. It would lose the leverage it enjoys as a non-aligned, independent power.

    Professor Su Hao of CFAU, who attended the conference in New Delhi, notes: “Yes, I know Japan is trying to woo India and make it a part of the Western axis which is aimed at containing China, but New Delhi is known to take an independent stand which suits its larger political and geopolitical interests.”

    Su Hao also underlined the importance of “creating a new Asia which is based on the shared interest of India and China. Japan is not a voice of larger Asia, [as] it is closer to the West.”

    Considering the history of acrimony and animosity between New Delhi and Beijing, Japan is seen as a natural ally for India. The case for closer relations with Japan is further strengthened by Japan’s own rivalry with China in the East China Sea. However, an entente between Japan and India is not in the interests of India if aimed at containing China. It will have repercussions at the Sino-Indian border and inject tension into their relationship and into South Asia as China might further strengthen its relationships with India’s neighbors.

    India cannot remain a prisoner of history forever. The defeat of India at the hands of China in 1962 cannot remain a cause for permanent distrust. India itself was also responsible for the war with China.

    “We cannot forget history but at the same time we cannot remain in the prison cell of the past forever. We have to come out. Today China is more than ever before willing to extend the hands of friendship across the Himalayas,” according to Professor Su Hao. He also added that “Japan should also behave like an Asian nation as this will ease the tension in the region and Japan can become, along with New Delhi and Beijing, a part of the emerging Asian architecture.”

    Many Indian foreign policy hawks suggest that India should develop a strategic alliance with Japan in order to contain Chinese influence in the region and block its rising supremacy in Asia. But such a brazen approach will not serve India’s larger economic and geostrategic interests. India needs China for economic investment and for stabilizing Afghanistan. Both India and China have large financial and strategic stakes in Afghanistan.

    Later this month, Chinese President Xi Jinping will visit India. This will be a historic opportunity for India and China to rebuild and strengthen their ties, as in the 1950s.

    Source:- India Must Choose Both China and Japan | The Diplomat
     
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  3. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Thanq author Sanjay Kumar

    India's Foreign policy is Non Aligned, India has cozy relation with opposite Poles like
    Israel&Palestine
    Iran&Saudi
    US&Rus

    Any way, it will maintain this stupid NA policy in Chi&Jpn also
     
  4. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    Whats wrong with being friends with both Japan and China? I think its possible..this can reduce the tension between China and Japan..I predict the conflict between Japan and China will gradually decrease and ,in a few years..it will be a harmonious relationship among all three largest economies of Asia.
    It will be a WIN-WIN-WIN relationship ,if I choose the words of President Xi Jimping.
     
  5. Ashutosh Lokhande

    Ashutosh Lokhande Senior Member Senior Member

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    The problem with chinese is they respect the law of jungle and not of civilization.
    Someone need to teach humility to the them.
    The behaviour and attitude of chinese ultimately affect our relation with them.
    Hope modi gifts xi with bhagvad gita too as he need to learn it more.
     
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  6. Prometheus

    Prometheus Regular Member

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    Its not a stupid policy, if India aligns with China, China will align with India, and once the west is defeated, will continue to bully India... with Pakistan as a proxy state (as India can only progress at China's expense).
    Even worse, if India allies with the west, India will set to lose its most trusted friend, Russia. We all know that the US don't have allies/friends, they have followers,who take orders. India will find it hard to observe this role. Also, unlike NATO, these are Asian countries, for whom the US doesn't have any cultural ties of being white. Lets assume that the US does manage to defeat China, with its Asian allies. well then what?..... which is the next country which the US regards as a threat?.... well India of course!, as its /will be the country with the highest GDP. Think of the entire drama in terms of economics and it will all start making sense. was the USSR ever a real threat to the west, is china one now? did these countries ever attack the US directly? or were the made to look like larger then life threats? The US is no.1 and it wants to keep it that way. The propaganda machine is in the American hands and they can make any country look evil as and when they please. Also we saw this in WW2 and in every other conflict, the US always puts other/allied countries troops at harm in the front line, and when the war is over, the American troops come forward to claim the trophy. who would be the front liner in this conflict? Taiwan, japan, US ? no it will be India! as we have a common border. Smaller countries like Vietnam would probably get run over in a weeks time. taiwan, japan, US will wait till the conflict is at its end and then step in, just as they did in ww2
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  7. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Nobody is asked to make a choice in btwn. This is not an either-or situation. If Japanese businessmen find a greener pasture in India they certainly will flock there. Even ministers of Japan and China who seem to lock horns with each other over Diaoyu will meet in the 5th round talks for C-J-K trilateral FTA (China Japan and Korea), whose GDP together follows EU, and NAFTA only with internal trade volume est. $500bil a year. Up to the moment hurdles on the way of FTA remain opening up agri. market, electronic and machinery duty tariffs etc. etc.. It's not always a rosegarden but CJK will certainly work it out with a big picture in mind.
     
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  8. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    When it comes to foreign policy India needs to be confident when setting its priorities.

    Indian priorities are Peace and harmony in S.Asia, economic development and projecting its soft power across the globe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  9. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree your perpective!!

    China to invest over $5 billion in 2 business parks in Maharashtra, Gujarat - The Times of India


    Trade and economic relations should be there based on reciprocity. China is a market for India as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  10. Ashutosh Lokhande

    Ashutosh Lokhande Senior Member Senior Member

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  11. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    The reason why China is showing interest in India is because of rising wages in China, Chinese companies also want a share of Indian market.

    The situation is like "made in India" is cheaper compared to most of the top economies, so they will invest in India for sure, other wise their corporates will loose the competitive edge. There are other emerging economies in ASEAN but India can attract big share.

    All India has to do is make sure Chinese investments are not in critical areas, This is an advantageous situation where in India can gain access to Chinese market just like what China did to USA.

    To make sure local manufacturing gets improved India has to increase the import duties so that those countries will invest in India.

    Unlike China in 2000's India is also attracting R&D centers.

    Once manufacturing along with R&D improves that will put India on a very strong position.
     
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  12. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    ?? and what about the China "alliance" at the western front. ??

    lose most trusted friend Russia ? OH gosh ! this is no longer the days of pre-1992 soviet union
    Russia supplies both India and Pakistan - the deciding actor being who pays more .
    India now buys more from the USA than from Russia - quality of Russian technology still good
    but the gap with usa is widening - redeeming factor is that they "seem" more willing towards TOT.

    yes you're right - i.e the good-ole balance of payments problem - i.e. they are winning the economic WAR
    - at our cost - with no signs of any correction - so far .

    ---------------------------------------------------

    other comments:-
    India MUST choose both ?
    Sorry disagree, strongly .
    There is news that CHina is being remotely considered to supply bullet train network(s)
    What happens when there is a conflict at the borders ? it is not a hyperbole - with hundreds of
    deliberate transgressions every year and tens every month . Perceptions differences ? No , Merely
    that they are not willing to give and inch even though having a much larger land mass .
    With such a nation, please be extremely careful, wary
    They could well have a kill switch built into those bullet train networks !
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
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  13. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    China imports are the trend of the past decade, In this current decade China is viewed as a market of 1.3 Billion citizens with close to 7000 $ percapita.

    We do need trade agreements since India will be in advantageous position in the near future.
     
  14. Prometheus

    Prometheus Regular Member

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    I just don't want for India to be used as a tool. Yes the technological gap is widening not just between the US and Russia, but between the US and the World as a whole,and if we dont do something about it, the US will start regarding the rest of the world as cave men, and will deal with it as they did with the Native Americans. The US already has a new generation of weapons like the Comanche and the F22, which are lined up and ready to use, but not in use as of now. And these are only technologies that they want you to know of, there is a huge lineup of technologies like AI, nanotechnology, genetics which the don't want you to know of. As of now all nations are putting their eggs in both baskets including the US& China so lets play with that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
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  15. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    The presumption is that distance and far away distance will not become economical and faster in the future is a good question to ask. If in the affirmative all countries ought to not look beyond their boundaries.

    With advent of technology and globalisation one can speak and interact with others much far away and efficiently unlike before. if travel becomes cheaper and faster that will also strengthen foreign relations amongst nations that are far away compared to neighbours. already shipping and also rail and air is cost effective and evolution of logistics and project management enables executions of parameters unlike anything ever seen before and at a cost affordable to many.

    at this moment travel and technology allows close relationship with far away nations.

    One can take it to the other extreme - The best place to manufacture for USA and North America would be Mexico. The best place to manufacture for Europe and Africa and South East Asia (below PRC) and Middle East and dare one say PRC would be India. In reply to the above quote. Japan is partnering with India accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  16. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    I completely agree US is a Big Bully.In present scenario there are two bullies one US(west)&Second one is China.Every body know Winning Bully is US,so simple join winning bully(West) crush second one.:thumb:

    Where do u got Idea after defeating China, US will target India?

    2)India is not expansionist it never claimed AKHAND BHARAT or Indian Ocean is only India's.So if West want to attack India they don't have any reason to show

    3)Why many ppl always quote failed state por***an as a example to make a point India will never be a tool for US.Take S.Korea or Japan after WW2 they both aligned with US and developed,and por***an wasted the money and initiated war.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  17. Prometheus

    Prometheus Regular Member

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    1) thats exactly my point, you dont have to do anything wrong.... you will be painted that way. Were there WMD'S in iraq? was there a link between osama and 9/11? was Russia expanding? u would be surprised how easily and quickly public opinion can be changed
    2) read about what happened to people of Japanese decent, living in the US during WW2.
    India should do what the US did to come to power during WW2......play neutral till both sides have weakened, then join either and come out as the winner ! just the way the US bought europe through soft loans to rebuild the decimated nations!
     
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  18. Ashutosh Lokhande

    Ashutosh Lokhande Senior Member Senior Member

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    Let the big dogs fight we just need to sit back and watch the drama unfold :popcorn:
     
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  19. jus

    jus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Iraq/afg/Somalia/pak r insignificant failed states who cares who Bombs them, If u don't kill them they kill themselves :laugh: . Do u think tomorrow any difference then US will BOMB S.Korea/Jpn/Malaysia/Indonesia/Russia.... like that why this Paranoia US will crush India.This is 21st century India still stuck in Poverty/Toilet take money&tech and grow, made India like another S.korea or Jpn. India always follow same policies Live&Let live.

    Never US(West) almost *20 times more powerful than China,only china will be weakened or defeated.So there is no either or , only US is SUPER POWER and will stay another 60+yrs.

    p.s It looks terrible but i'm just Pragmatic
     
  20. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    India will be another SK or JPN?! Wake up u're a monster of 1.2bln while SK 50bln! And Japan before WW2 was already pretty much industrialized after Meiji Emperor's reform late 19th cen.. Japan won 2 wars to fuel its economic take-off -

    1st - First Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    2nd -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War
    The Cold War, esp. the Korean War led to US loosening the bonds on Japan and allowing it to unleash its own industrial potential at the forefront to keep Soviet and China in check.

    Would India be like JP/SK had it joined the US camp?! Oh, don't forget then Pakistan was already a part of US-headed SEATO!

    More appropriately rather than SK/JP, India shall reflect on the Philippines ' experience, a former US colony with heavy US patronage, a longstanding US ally with US bases, the only Catholic state in Asia, English also as the official language :lol:
     
  21. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    India will be another SK or JPN?! Wake up u're a monster of 1.2bln while SK 50bln! And Japan before WW2 was already pretty much industrialized after Meiji Emperor's reform late 19th cen.. Japan won 2 wars to fuel its economic take-off -

    1st - First Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    2nd -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japanese_War
    The Cold War, esp. the Korean War led to US loosening the bonds on Japan and allowing it to unleash its own industrial potential at the forefront to keep Soviet and China in check.

    Would India be like JP/SK had it joined the US camp?! Oh, don't forget then Pakistan was already a part of US-headed SEATO!

    More appropriately rather than SK/JP, India shall reflect on the Philippines ' experience, a former US colony with heavy US patronage, a longstanding US ally with US bases, the only Catholic state in Asia, English also as the official language :lol:
     

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