India: Israel's Next Major Military Ally?

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by LETHALFORCE, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    India's Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh is set to make a high-level visit to Israel next month, in the first Home Minister visit since a 2000 trip that began resurgent bilateral ties - the visit comes after India last month approved a $144 million missile purchase from Israel.

    Singh, whose position is roughly parallel to Internal Security Minister, is to meet Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu on November 6 as part of a four-day trip with senior officials, Indian diplomatic sources told the Times of India on Thursday.

    India is currently the largest buyer of Israeli defense hardware, and Israel's military delegation to India is second only in size to its delegation to America. The two countries also have a Joint Working group on counter-terrorism, with bilateral ties flourishing under India's new Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

    Netanyahu and Modi met in New York last month, where he told him "we are excited about the possibilities of stronger ties with India, and the sky is the limit."

    The statement came the same month that Modi approved the purchase of 262 Israeli-made Barak 1 surface-to-air missiles, in a $144 million deal that will arm India's 14 battleships over the course of five years.

    The deal had been frozen since a scandal in 2006, when suspicions of corruption by Indian politicians surfaced claiming that they had taken bribes in return for advancing weapons deals. Those suspicions were never proven, and with Israeli-Indian ties flourishing the deal has come back into play.

    India has been actively buying Israeli weapons; last year it approved the purchase of 15 Heron drones.

    The two countries are also involved in joint military projects, with Israel developing the Barak 8 advanced missile in cooperation with India, further pointing to the strong military ties.

    Reportedly Israel is also looking to sell its Iron Dome anti-missile defense system to India as well, as India is interested in using the system to defend its key assets.

    As defense ties with America continue to grow tense, as highlighted in Operation Protective Edge when US President Barack Obama froze the routine transfer of Hellfire missiles to Israel and ordered scrutiny on future shipments, Israel continues to show signs of developing Asian allies such as India, China and Japan.


    India: Israel's Next Major Military Ally? - Global Agenda - News - Arutz Sheva
     
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  3. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    China as well? I didn't know Israel had good ties with them.
     
  4. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  5. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Israel is unlike US or Russia as a military partner. US had been a bad partner as it sent 7th Fleet in 1971 to Bay of Bengal to confront India. Later as a gesture of goodwill provided economic assistance, World Bank loans etc. etc.

    Russia has been consistent in its support. In 1965 they told US to withdraw support to Pakistan, told China to back off in 1971 and stoodby India in 1999.

    These type of support, you cannot expect from Israel.

    The best Israel can do is supply weapons and technology locally developed, independent of US sanctions and greatest of all provide Jewish lobby support in India dealing with US. The Jewish lobby in US is very influential in turning the US Administration around and providing Congressional support for India related issues.
     
  6. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    the following observations are no way directed against you Sir,
    but indeed your post is a good one as it
    raises the possibility to address such matters :-


    is it indeed wise to expect israel to be a second russia ?
    and why would we need a spare tyre for russia ?

    israel offers a different type of relationship ......... we can be creative in our relationship management, i hope ? ~~

    what some indians want is to sit back and expect someone else to spoon feed us,
    as the soviets did for us in the 1980's, while we
    continue with decades of folded hands mentality that allows the 40 year plus Mig21 to continue as the
    "backbone " of our air force ....

    ....agaisnt such mentality i feel there is no point having a discussiion

    can one imagine today's Israel Air Force using Mig 21 as there mainstay ? they developed the Lavi in the 1980's
    we need take a better look at their society , i feel


    fortunately i think there are enough in the NDA who wont make that mistake
    Modi is one of them - he's likely to go to israel in early 2015

    israel offers a heck of a lot, including pivotal access into usa political institutions
    - i hope NDA will not miss these opportunities !
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2014
  7. ghost

    ghost Regular Member

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    Mam,

    When America punctures or deliberately take out the air from our new tyre ,then we should always have our old trusted ,tried,used and reliable tyre on which we can fall back on at times of emergency ,and which is yet to be punctured.

    Who says you should make new friends at cost of old ones?Remember we can be equally creative with Russians(joint venture in defence research,production and selling eg,bhramos,FGFA).

    Further the type of strategic partnership and strength Russia offer Israel cannot offer,plain and simple .Russia is still the big bear with whom people do not like to mess and enjoy its own sphere of influence in world,do not forget its power to veto in UN,it shares land boundary with China.Russia is there with immense opportunity it is with Indians how they make use of it.We should go ahead with Israel but not at cost of Russia.
     
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  8. Kranthi

    Kranthi Regular Member

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    I think she meant exactly what u meant. She referred Israel as a spare tyre for Russia, as per my understanding.
     
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  9. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    Exactly....No nation can replace Russia from the heart of 1.2 billion Indians. Russia always proved a reliable, trusted friend and still is. Israel and Russia can not be compared. Israel is a tiny country with 7 million people pitted against one billion enemies (muslims) whereas Russia is the biggest nation on face of the Earth with 180 million people. As time goes by..each year..tiny nation will keep losing its importance ...the best days of Israel are behind if it does not make peace with Philistinians . Demographics is very against Israel...how can 7 million people rule /control 7 billion humans?...impossible.
    Russia was and Russia IS going to remain a very close friend of India. Russians are brave and proud people ..they can not be subjugated by threats ...Don't forget the truth that they were those Brave Russians who destroyed Hitler's Army and buried them in snow storms. Its a good advice...Don't mess with proud, patriotic Russian people...they know how to live and how to die for Mother Russia.
     
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  10. ghost

    ghost Regular Member

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    Sir,

    I agree ,my bad.

    @roma mam,I apologize for misinterpreting your post .:namaste:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  11. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    as long as a person doesnt use bad or rude language and refrained from personal attacks,
    then no apology is ever necessary to me , from anyone even if they misunderstood any of my posts ...
    misunderstandings can be commonplace and differences of opinion is what a discussion is about ...
    otherwise there is no debate.

    so on all counts youre doing fine and this forum has kept a good level :thumb:

    perhaps i should add my admission of being a bit hard on those who expected russia to treat us with the
    same red carpet kindness which the soviets did


    let me clarify what i meant about our relations with israel and todays russia
    firstly by "no spare tyre " what i meant was there can only be one russia and only one israel and it is up
    to us to to be creative in our relationships

    we cannot use one to substitute the other - ( so there's "no spare tyre" in that sense )

    we cant except russia to be israel and vice versa too .
    each has their roles to play for us and each has their strengths and weaknesses from our point of view
    and the strengths of israel i have related to in my earlier post

    as for russia well, sadly those great soviet days are seemingly over
    some of you gentlemen have been rather more than positive about Russia and you could well be right
    and i could have got it wrong .....that's what were here for

    for me, it was great with soviets especially the time of breznev ..
    as for todays russia im not impressed with them ....im not impressed with their
    rusting admiral gorshkov offer to us ......as far as i feel, it was about to be scrapped
    then im not impressed with the cost haggling that followed

    im not too impressed with their pakfa offers ....are we really doing r&d
    or are our engineers just enjoying the cold weather and having tea-breaks with
    russian ( perhaps women engineers ? :namaste:)

    im not impressed with vlad putin - seems too close to china for my liking
    i was impressed with breznev, in those days
    obviously by now we are aware of the end of the cold war era .....it was a great time for us, i feel
    in todays world one is hard put to find any ally
    even chinas friendship woith pakland - pak is foolish to think of higher than himalayas etc
    it is cold chinese calculation of what they want of Pakistan which is the key issue

    similarly for india we have little choice but to stand on our own
    hope im worng, but there seems no more concept of brother-type allies as in the past - only congruent interests

    ours and israel's are very congruent

    some of you gentlemen feel that usa has played us out enough number of times - i might agree
    we should the collaborate with Israel to get usa to .................heheheh

    we are 1,300,000,000 .......when china was 900,000,000 they began to stand on their own without
    further soviet aid
    our numbers minus those below the poverty line is more or less what china had at 900 million

    we should begin to really stand on our own - we can still utilize the strengths of others though

    Post Script : this came in just now ......another reason why im not impressed with Putin's russia :-
    Pakistan, Russia sign 'milestone' military cooperation pact
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/794295/pakistan-russia-sign-military-cooperation-agreement/#comments
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  12. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    About Russia -Pakistan military ties...the news was not only overly propagandized but also, distorted. Russian top level officials have clarified repeatedly that Pakistan was offered certain type of helicopters mainly to deal with terrorists and help to contain terrorists from entering central asia and Russia.
    In fact, there was a reaction to this news in India and Russian govt officials said they were surprized by this reaction as these helicopters are not of much use in wars between nations but only suitable for anti terrorist operation in rough landscape.
    As for getting US on India's side, why do we need Israeli lobby ? US is keen to capture Indian markets as the other huge markets such as China, Brazil, Russia are all slipping out of US hands. Dollar is being abandoned gradually by Russia, China, Iran, Brazil etc and dollar hegemony is under serious threat. USA needs india as much as India needs USA. The days of threats and intimidation are fast running out for all hegemonistic nations. We have huge American public support and admiration for India even though the politicians are stuck in past and talking in outdated language.
    My point is ..India does not need Israeli middlemen to connect India and USA...it's happening on its own with 3.5 million Indians Americans living in USA .
    CNN, BBC is churning out 24/7 propaganda against Russia but most Americans do not believe it and understand the spin liberal media is giving to news. Young people in US have stopped watching mainstream media news and now, trusting YouTube and other international news channels to get a true picture of world. Readership of RT.Com, Ria Novosti, CCTV, XinHua, Global times, Press TV , Bricspost etc are going up and up each day. Even John Kerry had to comment about popularity of RT.com in USA. Distrust of Mainstream media in US is all time high.
     
  13. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    they are all jolly good points youve made in your original post

    ive edited the post to highlite only those main points i 'd like to reply to ...hope that's ok

    i would say that often we find that more than one road leads to our desired destination
    sometimes one of those roads is temporarily blocked , then tis more convenient to take the other path
    so we should keep our options open and multiple ...not necessary to deliberately limit ourselves to only
    one road

    so maintain good relations with both the usa society and israeli society as well ! ......we never know when
    we may need either or both
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
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  14. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    Agreee....India needs to be every nations friends..even Pakistan (if possible) Friendship with all and enmity with none should be our mantra. Trade with all..US, Europe, Russia,China,Australia,japan ,korea ,Israel, Iran and everyone else. It will be difficult but is possible to treat all nations with respect and decency. Because..Indian culture believes "World is one family "
     
  15. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    India should be a friend to its PRINCIPLES. India cannot be a friend to every nation.
    The relationship with Israel is a bit complicated. However the relationship has been quite useful and is growing strong. But we must keep in mind that any dealing with Israel is indirectly dealing with USA as Israel and USA are very close.
     
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  16. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    West has got more to offer than the old demented Russia. A resurgent India would like to LEAD and would not like to be HERDED by one nation or another. It is the new assertive and self-confident India we have been talking about, not the India under the UPA rule. We can clearly see the change, the way other nations have been responding to us (G 20 for instance).

    We cannot bank on any nation to protect our national interests. It is better to destroy the old Cold-War era world-view and biases and think afresh. Russia's biggest utility for us was in the fact that it was (is) a permanent member of the UNSC and always voted in our favour. Today even a small nation like Sri Lanka has the guts to show middle finger to the Permanent Members. Hence Russia has lost that leverage.

    I have had several opportunities to interact with Israelis (not the tourist types) in past and I got an impression that Israel is a better long-term "regional" partner for India than Russia. Although, India and Israel have slightly different threat perceptions.
     
  17. ghost

    ghost Regular Member

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  18. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    I have a feeling that this is all in the wake of a backup in case PAK FA runs into trouble. Somehow Russians are simply not allowing greater access to the PAKFA details and expecting us to fund equally as their own government is.

    Why? No one knows.

    Something tells me that Israel could be a backup in getting the AMCA back from its suspended-animation stage. They have experience with the Lavi and also other advanced technologies. What's more, they will be more than happy to have a fighter of their own as well alongside us.

    But Russia will always remain a crucial partner to India.
     
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  19. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    We ought deal a lot (75%) with USA through Israel. This will help Israel and also produce both economic and relationship synergy.

    All business in USA that is from India origin ought to setup shop in Israel it will help with doing business with Europe also and strengthen the Israel components against its challengers.
     
  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Russia has been a disappointment on most almost all major deals.
     
  21. Prometheus

    Prometheus Regular Member

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    Neither US nor Israel are allies, they are opportunists, drawn to India thanks to its flourishing economy, like flies are drawn to food.... RUSSIA is an ally, part of what Russia is suffering today is thanks to its standing up for India during the 1972 Bangladesh liberation war. Calling opportunists friends, is an insult to the term friendship.
     

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