India in talks with France to purchase second-hand Mirage jets

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by luckyy, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. luckyy

    luckyy Regular Member

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    India in talks with France to purchase second-hand Mirage jets: diplomat......
    New Delhi, OCT 7, IRNA
    India-France-Mirage jets
    In-Depth Coverage
    India is in talks with France to purchase several second-hand Mirage 2000 fighters to bolster its air force, a diplomat said.

    "The Indian Air Force is seeking to acquire some aircraft quickly," sources said here quoting the diplomat, who made the disclosure to reporters on Friday without giving numbers, although the Indian press has said 40 may be bought.

    "The figure of 40 does not match the reality," the diplomat said.

    French Defence Ministry officials were due to meet India's Air Force chief later Friday.

    France and India have also been discussing for several months a new maintenance contract for New Delhi's 52 Mirage fighters built by Dassault, the diplomat said.

    Indian Air Force spokesman Squadron Leader Mahesh Upasini said the proposal to acquire the jets had "come to us from France." Indian sources added that India's Navy is also talking to Dassault about purchasing the Mirage-2000MKI, a maritime version of the French jet.

    India has plans to purchase 126 fighter jets at a cost of up to USD 9 billion to replace its aging MiG-21s.

    Dassault's Rafale warplane is among the contenders along with US firm Lockheed Martin's F-18 and Russia's MiG-35.

    New Delhi is expected to issue a request for proposals in January, the sources said.

    India has 34 air squadrons, each with 12 operational jets, against a sanctioned strength of 40 squadrons.

    The MiG-21s have been dubbed "flying coffins" by the media due to their frequent crashes. In March, India's Defence Ministry released figures showing that 54 MiG-21 fighter jets had crashed in the past seven years.
     
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  3. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Old news...plans were dropped as costs were too high.
     
  4. luckyy

    luckyy Regular Member

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    don't the takls are still on , i heard UAE buying Rafale in exchange of their old Mirage......

    then where these mirage going ?

    infect IAF was also in touch with qater for their Mirage ..
     
  5. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

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    that Fool do not know what he is talking about :suicide_fool-edit:

    here is the UAEAF MIRAGES

    2000EAD Single-seat multirole 22

    2000-9 Single-seat 20

    2000-9D Two-seat trainer 12

    2000RAD Unique reconnaissance variant 8

    2000DAD Two-seat trainer 6

    In 1983, the UAE purchased 22 single-seat Mirage 2000EADs, 8 unique single-seat Mirage 2000RAD reconnaissance variants, and 6 Mirage 2000DAD trainers, for a total order of 36 machines. The order specified an Italian-made defensive avionics suite that delayed delivery of the first of these aircraft until 1989.

    The Mirage 2000RAD reconnaissance variant does not have any built-in cameras or sensors, and the aircraft can still be operated in air combat or strike roles. The reconnaissance systems are implemented in pods, including the Thales "SLAR 2000" radar pod, Dassault "COR2" multi-camera pod with visible and infrared imaging capability, and the Dassault "AA-3-38 HAROLD" telescopic long-range optical camera pod. The UAE is the only nation operating such a specialized reconnaissance variant of the Mirage 2000 at this time.

    The UAE is the launch customer, ordering 32 new-build aircraft, comprising 20 Mirage 2000-9 single-seaters and 12 Mirage 2000-9D two-seaters. Initial deliveries of the UAE Mirages began in the spring of 2003. A further 30 of Abu Dhabi's older Mirage 2000s will also be upgraded to Mirage 2000-9 standard.
    The UAE's Mirage 2000-9s are well-equipped for the strike mission, since they are being provided with the Shehab laser targeting pod (a variant of the Damocles) and the Nahar navigation pod, complementing the air-to-ground modes of the RDY-2 radar. They are also equipped with a classified countermeasures system designated "IMEWS", which is comparable to the ICMS 3. The UAE is also obtaining the "Black Shaheen" cruise missile, which is basically a variant of the MBDA Apache cruise missile similar to Storm Shadow.
     
  6. vijaytripoli

    vijaytripoli Regular Member

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    UAE still in talks to buy Rafale planes from France

    Abu Dhabi: The United Arab Emirates and France are continuing negotiations on the Gulf Arab state's potential purchase of French Rafale fighter planes, the UAE's foreign minister said on Monday.
    "It will take a bit more time" to complete the talks, Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahayan told AFP ahead of French President Nicolas Sarkozy's visit to the Gulf state for talks on bilateral military ties.
    A deal would be a major boost for the plane's maker Dassault Aviation, which has yet to sell any Rafales for export.
    A Dassault spokesman told AFP on Saturday that "a deal is unlikely in the next few days."

    The UAE said in June 2008 that it was "seriously" considering replacing its fleet of 60 Mirage 2000 combat planes with Rafale.

    Asked about progress in the talks, Sheikh Abdullah said on the sidelines of the conference that the private sector "would also be involved", in reference to Dassault.
    Kouchner said he is "not in charge of the matter", while Sarkozy's Elysee office recently said that "there was progress".
    Dassault previously held talks with Saudi Arabia, the largest Arab economy, on a possible deal, but the world's top oil exporter eventually opted to buy Eurofighter jets from Britain.
    Dassault is also expected to re-enter a race to win a 12-billion-dollar fighter plane deal in India after it was disqualified for failure to meet technical requirements.
    France is a leading military supplier to the UAE, which bought more than 400 Leclerc tanks from French firm GIAT in 1994.
    Sarkozy was due to arrive in the capital later on Monday to inaugurate a French military base, the first in the region, as part of a 1995 defence pact that binds the two countries.

    http://www.defencetalk.com/uae-still-in-ta...m-france-19216/

    chau
     
  7. vijaytripoli

    vijaytripoli Regular Member

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    IF IAF need fighters & have money for that other than MRCA deal than why not buy new mirage 2000 directly from FRANCE & modify as per there needs?
    chau
     
  8. luckyy

    luckyy Regular Member

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    mirage production line is closed ..
     
  9. luckyy

    luckyy Regular Member

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    it was the qater plan which was droped due to cost , IAF offered $45mn , ministry of defence drop it to $36mn , whereas qater was asking $67mn/copy ..
    but it was way back in 2005 , in todays costing anything around $50-60 is managable..
     
  10. pppppppp

    pppppppp Regular Member

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    Going with this price for used Mirages is not worthy. If we can get the upgraded versions (MLU) to that latest dash standards, for 36 million a piece, then it can be taken. Otherwise, we can buy brand new Grippen for that price. Probably its life is half used already.
     
  11. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

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    on the con if we can upgrade the M2K's to Dash 9 STANDRAD like the UAE it would me awsome
     
  12. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    We will have to take a concerted call on this... we need those jets desparately and at the current pace the MRCA jets will not come in anytime before 2013...

    We may not buy all the jets that UAE has to offer, but definitely about 1 squadron strenght will be bought in my opinion... the UAE people will know that India is desparate due to its falling fighter jet strength and so they will try and squeeze as much money out of us as possible...

    LCA, if inducted in 2011 will be a stopgap for the falling MRCA strength, but it can only be a stopgap, because we need to bolster the falling strength quickly and so these Mirages are a lifeline to us on our way out...
     
  13. youngindian

    youngindian Senior Member Senior Member

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    no need to buy old and second hand mirag2000 ,it is a good fighter but we have already mmrca and fgfa.
     
  14. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    YoungIndia, the immediate problem is that squadron strengths are falling rapidly and we need something to bolster them... MRCA, even the first few squadrons will not come in anytime before 2013 and the FGFA is still on the drawing board, so forget it before 2015...

    By then a lot of the non-upgraded MiG-21s will be sent packing and our squadron strength will fall from the present 31 odd to about 28 or even 27...

    That's cutting it too fine in my opinion and so we NEED those couple of squadrons of Mirages (although they are second hand) urgently...
     
  15. John

    John Guest

    no way, we are not not buying any thing old right now.
     
  16. youngindian

    youngindian Senior Member Senior Member

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    but monk sir we can also order f18 for that role and boeing has no fresh order and it can provide these fighter very fast since boeing is marketing f15 silent eagle to international market like israel,japan,korea and ksa
     
  17. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    We may not want to, but I suspect we will be foreced to... those MRCA jets have been lingering in the Defence Ministry or about 8 years now... and the end result will be this...

    Even I am not personally in favour of buying second hand jets, but at this stage I suspect there would be no other avenue open to us...

    Either we will have to forcibly extend the lives of the MiG-21s beyond their scheduled retirement or we will have to bite the bullet and pay up for these jets...
     
  18. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Boeing is an option, but there are problems with ToT on their AESA radar I've heard... they may not give us full ToT on the AESA since its almost the same one use on the F-22 which is being offered to us (a bloody deadly radar system at that)... so, by going for Boeing, we are almost certainly shooting ourselves in the foot as far as ToT is concerned...

    Also, to become efficient in a fighter jet requires years of training and practice. American platforms will be totally new for us and we will have to go through a steep learning curve to get used to them. Whereas, in case of the Mirages we already have significant experience and hence getting used to some slighly different variants will not be a great problem.

    So, as a stopgap measure I think we need to go in for maybe 1 or 2 squadrons of those Mirages that are being offered although they are second hand...
     
  19. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Instead of buying India might negotiate for leasing a squadron or so Mirages from France. As France has already started replacing it's Mirage fleet with Rafales, it might agree too. But buying an old airframe in such a high price is not feasible IMO. MoD did right by restricting the price at $36 million.
     
  20. John

    John Guest

    at 36 million we can simply order more Su-30mki, we dont need any old crappy aircraft from anybody, if we indeed more numbers, we should order the MKI.
     
  21. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Yes, more MKI are coming... I read somewhere that a total order for about 230 has been placed...
     

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