India ignores US call for economic freeze, opens up Iran oil strategy

[Godless-Kafir]

give me some examples of how India can embargo Iranian oil and meet India's oil needs at the same time.... I am all ears... I don;t expect you to agree with me but I post answers to your arguments and you dont bother to read them nor answer any of my questions but you go off making other arguments that don't seem to have much traction in them

you are making it seem that India is deliberately doing this to site the west, but in reality India has very few alternatives. secondly India has always helped the International community where it could, we have the largest contingent of troops doing UN peacekeeping missions and has always been supportive of the UN. You also have to keep in mind that we as a country have been on the receiving end of sanctions like these, and they are not effective they only hurt the average citizens for example as a doctor I can tell you that the equipment for treating cancers with radiation is sorely lacking in India because of US sanctions against us, but did nothing to stop India's nuclear program....

Well we did not have trade embargos, we had technological embargos trying to push us to the stone age but economic sanctions are a very different thing. Frankly NATO cant do such a thing against India and they cant pin anything bad on us either and i dont see them winning any battle on the ground here.

These trade embargos on Iran are meant to cripple Iran, i think Iran would have realized its time to strike when they have their defence machinery functional.

 

[noob101]

India is not actually sitting on the sides on this issue. It is helping Iran, albeit, indirectly.

we are maintaing the same relationship with Iran as we have before,,, helping them would be if we sold them a few Brahmos missiles

 

[Ray]

Russia is merely posturing.

 

[noob101]

Frankly NATO cant do such a thing against India and they cant pin anything bad on us either and i dont see them winning any battle on the ground here.

I don't seem to understand your point can you please clarify?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Russia is merely posturing.

I haven't seen Russia posture like this before, have you heard of such a blatant rhetoric from Russia in support of any nation?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I don't seem to understand your point can you please clarify?

I meant they cant impose sanctions without any reason on a nation. They cant pin any bad points on us to raise sanctions, they earlier used sanctions on technology like as you said import of sensitive dual purpose machines like x-ray, high speed processors etc., but that was not a trade sanction. What they are doing to Iran now is completely cut out the oxygen to their trade. So i pointed out the difference in sanctions on India and Iran.

 

[noob101]

I haven't seen Russia posture like this before, have you heard of such a blatant rhetoric from Russia in support of any nation?

i agree Russia is not known to make statements like this, but one has also to keep in mind its a Iranian news source and the actual statements are not so decisive as the title may suggest. Its like if anyone invaded Sri Lanka of course India would feel threatened because of geography...

 

[asianobserve]

What will Russia do? Send in tanks into Iran like in South Ossetia and Abkazia? They were welcome in these break-away Georgian provinces (who are agitating for independence from Georgia) but I doubt they'll be welcome in Iran...

 

[Virendra]

Well India's lifeblood can be sourced elsewhere.

Not good enough. What other sources? Everything is work in progress, even the TAPI.

What will happen? It is still OPEC that you have to deal with when you talk of oil. It means prices across OPEC oil producers will always be the same or at least closely set...

Yeah well OPEC isn't really a saint organization devoid of political camps. It doesn't just remain about Oil then, does it? When you cut your own suppliers. Its foolish and asking for blackmail.

India is not actually sitting on the sides on this issue. It is helping Iran, albeit, indirectly.

Stop doing business with whoever you consider bad, eventually run out of parties to do business with.
Those who're sitting on thousands of nukes and have problem with Iranian nukes shall find a better way to deal with them. We are not getting sucked into this.Period.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[noob101]

I meant they cant impose sanctions without any reason on a nation. They cant pin any bad points on us to raise sanctions, they earlier used sanctions on technology like as you said import of sensitive dual purpose machines like x-ray, high speed processors etc., but that was not a trade sanction. What they are doing to Iran now is completely cut out the oxygen to their trade. So i pointed out the difference in sanctions on India and Iran.

oh okay, I got confused when you said "I don't see them winning a ground battle here" I just wanted to know what you meant by here is it Iran or India?.... I agree the sanctions were different but similar in the effect although it was not a disaster in India's case... I was just pointing out they don't work and hurt the common man more than their intended purpose

 

[Godless-Kafir]

What will Russia do? Send in tanks into Iran like in South Ossetia and Abkazia? They were welcome in these break-away Georgian provinces (who are agitating for independence from Georgia) but I doubt they'll be welcome in Iran...

They can definitely sell high precession missiles that may take down a few ships in the region. They can make the war much difficult if they choose to.

 

[asianobserve]

Not good enough. What other sources? Everything is work in progress, even the TAPI.

I came across this encouraging news item. I should have just posted this earlier instead...

India to cut Iran oil imports, may not seek waiver-sources
Reuters
January 11, 2011
By Nidhi Verma


NEW DELHI, Jan 11 (Reuters) - India's government has told refiners to reduce Iranian oil imports and find alternatives as New Delhi may not seek a waiver that would protect buyers of Tehran's oil from a fresh round of U.S. sanctions, two industry sources said on Wednesday.

India, Iran's second largest oil buyer after China, is already struggling to pay for the crude due to existing sanctions, and fresh U.S. measures aimed at isolating Iran over its nuclear programme will make payment even harder.

The South Asian country buys from Iran about 12 percent of its oil needs, or 350,000-400,000 barrels per day (bpd) and worth $12 billion annually.

Indian oil firms were told by officials at a meeting on Monday that the government was not planning to seek an exemption from the U.S. sanctions, and were advised to reduce dependence on Iran and be ready with alternative supply sources.

"The companies have been told to reduce Iranian supplies and the government is not planning to seek a waiver," said one of the industry sources, who declined to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the matter.

The second source said the government appeared to believe that a waiver from the sanctions would provide only temporary relief as the exemption would only be for 120 days.

India's National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon, who officials have said is driving his country's negotiations on Iran oil, met U.S. Charge d'Affaires to India Peter Burleigh last week.

"India is indicating it will not seek a waiver," said a source at a foreign embassy in New Delhi with knowledge of the matter.

"What is the point in short-term solutions? The waiver is not for ever. Perhaps the Indian government realises it is better to reduce (Iranian imports) or replace if possible."

A senior Indian government source with direct knowledge of the matter said "no decision has yet been taken" on seeking exemptions under the U.S. sanctions.

India is currently paying for Iran oil imports through Turkey's Halkbank, a mechanism that is expected to succumb to a new law U.S. President Barack Obama signed on New Year's Eve, which if implemented fully would prevent most refineries from paying for Iranian crude.

Halkbank has already refused to open an account for state-run Bharat Petroleum Corp for oil from Iran. The U.S. law would strip any institution dealing with Iran's central bank from access to the U.S. financial system.

However, the law allows Obama to issue waivers to firms in countries that significantly reduce dealings with Iran, or at any time when it is either in the U.S. national interest or necessary for energy market stability.

An Indian delegation will visit Tehran from Jan. 16-21 to explore alternative routes of payment to ensure supplies without breaching sanctions, a government source said.

Indian refiners have gradually started raising supplies from other sources such as Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the United Arab Emirates.

Hindustan Petroleum recently doubled the size of its annual crude purchase deal with Saudi Arabia. HPCL is the second Indian firm after Mangalore Refinery and Petrochemicals Ltd to raise supplies from the Kingdom, the world's biggest oil producer. (Additional reporting by Krittivas Mukherjee and Rajesh Kumar Singh; Editing by Michael Urquhart)


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/11/india-iran-oil-idUSL3E8CB7BD20120111

 

[Godless-Kafir]

oh okay, I got confused when you said "I don't see them winning a ground battle here" I just wanted to know what you meant by here is it Iran or India?.... I agree the sanctions were different but similar in the effect although it was not a disaster in India's case... I was just pointing out they don't work and hurt the common man more than their intended purpose

I live in India not Iran, so here means India! lol

Yes sanctions do hurt the common man but since when did the common man matter to anyone or any side? Common man is just cannon fodder for politicians and governments. Common man could be helped more in India or Iran by their own Governments who keep failing than American sanctions.

 

[noob101]

I live in India not Iran, so here means India! lol

Yes sanctions do hurt the common man but since when did the common man matter to anyone or any side? Common man is just cannon fodder for politicians and governments. Common man could be helped more in India or Iran by their own Governments who keep failing than American sanctions.

k i understand

on the other point i get your point and i think you get my point no need to continue on that...

 

[The Messiah]

We will continue to trade with iran whether the yanks like it or not.

and that is the end of the matter. There is no justification to stop trading with them.

oil isn't the only concern either...its a gateway to central asia and thus it is in our interest to keep the oil flowing.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

^So said the Prime Minister of Nothingstan!

 

[ejazr]

I came across this encouraging news item. I should have just posted this earlier instead...

India to cut Iran oil imports, may not seek waiver-sources
Reuters
January 11, 2011
By Nidhi Verma

The latest news report is that GoI has denied that any cuts in Iran oil imports were planned.

Indian refiners not told to cut Iran oil imports-official | Agricultural Commodities | Reuters

NEW DELHI Jan 12 (Reuters) - An Indian oil ministry official denied on Thursday that the government had asked refiners to reduce Iranian oil imports, adding an existing mechanism through Turkey to pay for the shipments was working despite U.S. sanctions against Tehran.

"We have not asked companies to cut imports from Iran," Sudhir Bhargava, additional oil secretary, told reporters. He added India was looking for alternative supplies and that an existing payment mechanism was working. He didn't explain why India was looking for alternative supplies.

Also, looks like Japan may also be rethinking its intial stance

Japan will not reduce Iranian oil imports now - PM : Voice of Russia
The BBC quotes Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda of Japan as saying that his Finance Minister Jun Azumi's pledge to cut down on Iranian oil imports is but his own opinion.

According to Noda, Japan will make no decision on reducing oil imports from Iran before discussing the issue with the US Secretary of the Treasury Timothy Geithner. Japan's permanent dependence on oil imports was further increased by the Fukushima nuclear power plant accident in March last year.

Fresh sanctions may be slapped on Iran because the West feels Tehran is reluctant to cooperate with the international community in the issues that are related to the development of Iran's nuclear programme.

 

[ejazr]

At least now India is acting sensibly by ignoring US calls on Iran. we must maintain good relations with Iran in our own interest. first they finished off Afghanistan just to keep the soviets at bay, then Iraq,then Libya...Anarchy in Egypt,Tunisia...etc.. what does US wants? Iran supported India during Mrs. Gandhi's regime and later drifted away during Ayotollah Khomeini and under paki influence...Good relations with Iran will benefit us.

Just a little correction, our relations with Iran were quite bad before the Islamic revolution. Iran under the Shah was an ally of the US who came to power in a CIA backed coup in 1950s.

Since then Iran and Pakistan had close military ties as both were on the same side during the Cold War. During the 1965, and 1971 wars, Iran even provided US weapons and fighter jets to Pakistan something that no other country other than the US and China have done.

After the Shah was ousted, the most significant issue was preventing sanctions on India from the UN Human Rights council on the Kashmir issue in the 1990s and co-ordinating the Northern Alliance startegy in Afghanistan with us all done after the Islamic revolution period.

Under Indira Gandhi we had good relations with most of the leftist secular regimes in the Arab world like Egypt, Iraq, Syria and even the Palestinian Authority. While the GCC, Iran, Jordan e.t.c. belonged to the "other bloc"

 

[Ray]

I haven't seen Russia posture like this before, have you heard of such a blatant rhetoric from Russia in support of any nation?

I just met the Russian diplomat yesterday at the Army Day.

We had a rather interesting discussion on many issues.

It was evident it is not the same Russia we knew in the old times!

It appears that they have become very pragmatic.

 

[The Messiah]

I just met the Russian diplomat yesterday at the Army Day.

We had a rather interesting discussion on many issues.

It was evident it is not the same Russia we knew in the old times!

It appears that they have become very pragmatic.

So what did he say about current geopolitics ?