India hit over religious violence

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by RPK, Aug 13, 2009.

  1. RPK

    RPK Indyakudimahan Senior Member

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    This going to be interesting!

    India hit over religious violence

    A US congressional body has put India on a list of countries which have failed to protect its religious minorities adequately.

    The US Commission on International Religious Freedom says India was added to the list because of a "disturbing increase" in religious violence.

    It mentioned the anti-Christian and anti-Muslim riots in Orissa and Gujarat in 2008 and 2002 respectively.

    India has not yet commented on its inclusion on the "watch list".

    Other countries on the list include Afghanistan, Somalia and Cuba.

    Leonard Leo, the chair of USCIRF, said that it was "extremely disappointing" that India has done "so little to protect and bring justice to its religious minorities under siege."

    "India's democratic institutions charged with upholding the rule of law, most notably state and central judiciaries and police, have emerged as unwilling or unable to seek redress for victims of the violence," he said.

    "More must be done to ensure future violence does not occur and that perpetrators are held accountable."

    Last year, Kandhamal district in Orissa witnessed weeks of anti-Christian violence after a Hindu leader was shot dead.

    The clashes erupted after Hindu groups blamed Christians for the killing.

    And more than 1,000 people, mostly Muslims, died in the riots in Gujarat which began after 60 Hindus died in a fire on a train in 2002.

    The USCIRF says that the Obama administration should urge the Indian government to take measures to promote communal peace and protect religious minorities.

    The panel issues an annual report on religious freedom every May.

    But its India chapter was delayed after the Indian government declined to issue visas for the trip, the USCIRF said.
     
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  3. RPK

    RPK Indyakudimahan Senior Member

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    US panel puts India under scanner for 'religious violence'

    The US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) plans to announce later today that it has placed India on its watch list because of its "inadequate" response to religious violence, particularly against the country's Muslim and Christian minorities.



    USCIRF is an independent US agency whose job is to make sure religious freedom is taken into account in US foreign policy. Its watch list consists of countries with governments that tolerate "serious violations of religious freedom".



    It is likely to annoy the State Department, which has long complained that foreign government mistakenly believe that the commission makes US policy. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton visited India last month, when the countries announced agreements to strengthen a relationship that has dramatically improved in recent years.



    There are already signs that USCIRF's decision to place India on its watch list could cause problems between the US and India. Some of the eight members of USCIRF had planned a June trip to the country to look into reports of religious violence, but their applications for visas were turned down.

    In an interview, USCIRF chairman Leonard Leo rejected the warnings that placing India on the watch list would jeopardise US-Indian relations.
     
  4. RPK

    RPK Indyakudimahan Senior Member

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    US wants freedom of religion to be part of Indo-US dialogue


    US Commission for International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) today said it wants to have freedom of religion and belief to be an integral part of the Indo-US public diplomacy.

    "The reason why we placed India on the 'watch list' is because as part of our growing relationship in order to make sure that it is productive and meaningful as possible.

    "We believe human rights and freedom of religion and belief in particular need to be overlaid when you talk about other important economic and security issues," Leonard Leo, USCIRF chair, told the PTI in an interview.

    In making its watch list determination, the USCIRF is hoping to have constructive discussion and dialogue about how it can make sure that freedom of religion and belief is an integrated part of the public diplomacy and foreign policy between the two countries.

    "Because in our view, when you protect human rights fully, when you investigate and prosecute the kind of communal and sectarian violence we discussed in our report."

    "You are creating better climate for stability and you are going to have better ability to achieve some of the objectives that Secretary Clinton discussed with some of the officials in India," he said. Leo hoped that USCIRF's watch list determination, will lead to recognition that protection of religious minorities and various forms of communal violence is one way of achieving our shared objective and vision.

    "We recognise that and our hope is that by presenting in a very crisp way some of the challenges that are faced to some of the recent incidents that India would really sit down and try to come to terms of some of that development and good strategy for investigating and prosecuting the kind of misconduct and violent conduct that occurred ‘in Orissa for example," Leo said.

    "By doing that, engaging in that kind of investigating and prosecuting activity you provide less space for extremist conduct. At the end of that day that creates a greater degree of stability, leads to the achievement of strategic objective that the United States and India have been discussing,” Leo said.

    When asked about the Indian Government not issuing a visa to USCIRF members who were planning to go to India to have an on the spot assessment of the situation, Leo hoped that sometime in the future, the Indian Government will welcome them.

    Leo hoped that the organisation will have an opportunity to talk with Indian officials in greater detail of how we can forge a productive partnership of how to ensure the utmost protection to religious minorities particularly in the wake of incidents in Orissa and Gujarat.

    "We should put all this in a proper perspective. Yes, we put India on the watch list, but we also recognize that there is whole spectrum of problem around the world. For example Pakistan has far more serious problem than India.We recognize that," he said.
     
  5. natarajan

    natarajan Senior Member Senior Member

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    the same usa ignored blood telegram of usa consulate in east pakistan where million people got killed by awkward pakistan soldiers and also sent usn enterprise(iac) to bay of bengal to support this minority suppression
    i dont know how a nation like usa blames india
    usa should think over its past before advising others
    hiroshima and nagasakhi(real time nuclear explosion)
    all credit goes to the (th)great usa
     
  6. RPK

    RPK Indyakudimahan Senior Member

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    US body puts India under 'Watch List' on religious freedom

    Washington, Aug 13 (PTI) The US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) has placed India on its "Watch List" for New Delhi's largely inadequate response in protecting its religious minorities.

    In a statement, USCIRF said India earned the "Watch List" designation due to the "disturbing increase" in communal violence against religious minorities - specifically Christians in eastern Indian state Orissa in 2008 and Muslims in western Indian state of Gujarat in 2002 ?- and the largely inadequate response from the Indian government to protect the rights of religious minorities.

    "It is extremely disappointing that India, which has a multitude of religious communities, has done so little to protect and bring justice to its religious minorities under siege," said Leonard Leo, USCIRF chair.

    USCIRF's India chapter was released this week to mark the first anniversary of the start of the anti-Christian violence in Orissa.
     
  7. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Land of the GODS - "Dev Bhomi".
    Guantanamo Bay anyone?
    Islamophobia anyone?

    words more synonymous post 9/11 originating from…………., well certainly not India I would guess.
     
  8. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Its pot calling kettle black. ha ha :sarcastic:
     
  9. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Nothing Personal guys, it is a very good news; if we are not able to tell our policy makers then why not US. These idiot politicians should be pulled by someone and exposed. There should be some mechanism to tell power hungry politicians that some one is watching you.
    What physically US can do in India is very negligible to me. But a sense of pressure will always help the cause of religious prosperity in our country. We are not able to achieve the proper/text book religious harmony for minorities. Even if we are trying for the same is not good enough i bet.
    Why we should distrust someone who is doing something good for us.
    If am a real Indian, if am not a fundamentalist nor anyone who is reading this thread; then who is this preparators bringing vulnerability to security of minorities in India.
    Is it because of majority(Hindus) and minorities(Muslim,Sikhs, Christians....) or the man in power?
    I thinks its the man in power. What is your say...........
     
  10. natarajan

    natarajan Senior Member Senior Member

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    they are using them as vote bank as they cause some fear and show as they can only save so obviously all minority votes will go to them
    media is doing a great(worst) job by spreading communal message across by splashing small things 24X7
     
  11. kautilya

    kautilya Regular Member

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    Mostly that your logic is warped. For instance, why can't you tell your policy makers how you feel? Can't you vote? Can you not query a govt body under the RTI? Can you not approach the courts for redressal? Does the constitution not guarantee you a right to protest?

    I'll be first to admit our system has deep flaws. The length of time for the resolution of a court case for one. These problems can be addressed and changed within the system. Clearly though a perfection or fix of the system is not what you're looking for. What you'd like goes beyond what the banal report would suggest and implies a surrender of sovereignty. You'd actually like the US to police our politicians.

    Since you're unwilling to exercise any of those rights or duties and would like the US to play that role, I feel compelled to ask if you're an Indian citizen and if so, why?
     
  12. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    http://www.ptinews.com/news/228370_Putting-India-on--watch-list--of-religious-freedom

    Putting India on "watch list" of religious freedom

    STAFF WRITER 19:23 HRS IST

    regrettable: MEA

    New Delhi, Aug 13 (PTI) India today described as "regrettable" the action of the US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) in putting the country on its "watch-list" along with Cuba and Afghanistan due to alleged rising communal violence.

    "India, a country of 1.1 billion people, is a multi-ethnic and multi-religious society......Abberrations, if any, are dealt with promptly within our legal framework under the watchful eye of an independent judiciary and a vigilant media," External Affairs Ministry spokesman Vishnu Prakash said.

    It is ""regrettable", he said while responding to a question about USCIRF's action.

    USCIRF said India earned the "watch list" designation due to the "disturbing increase" in communal violence against religious minorities--specifically Christians in Orissa in 2008 and Muslims in Gujarat in 2002 and the "largely inadequate" response from the Indian government to protect the rights of religious minorities.
     
  13. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    I wonder whether Pakistan or China is on that list too ??? I think not...

    Sikhs and Christians in NWFP anyone ???

    Uighurs and Buddhists anyone ???
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I fail to understand why Indians are so enamoured with the US being the benchmark for everything pure and pristine.

    We complain about corruption, communal violence and everything bad about India.

    I will be the first to concede that India has to go a long way, However, mankind being what it is, there will be differences and there will be conflict.

    Notwithstanding, India maybe terrible, but is the US any better?

    Look at the economic fraud, corruption and cronyism that abounds the US. How are they the benchmark? They hector others for human rights violations, what is Guantanamo Bay – Disneyland? What about the secret detention centres they have around the world? Italy is having a legal case on where the CIA hijacked a mullah! Corruption? What about Enron, Freddie Mac and Fannie May and things like that?

    So, what the US has to say, is not material. They can take a running jump and so can their fans in India.

    India is India and we as Indians must find Indian solutions!

    Now if there are people like Benny Hinn gassing in India, then it is worth a check.

    How come Rajneesh was closed down in the US? Not that I found him fascinating!
     
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    x Controversies dog Benny Hinn's evangelic show
    A three-day faith show here by American evangelist Benny Hinn may have concluded without any major trouble, but it has left behind a trail of controversies.

    With the Karnataka government going all out to provide the logistics support for the Festival of Blessings that concluded here Sunday night, the high-tech show attracted nearly a million people from all over India and some from abroad.

    Though massive protests, a 12-hour shutdown and stray incidents of violence in the city overshadowed the inaugural day, the congregation passed off peacefully during the weekend much to the relief of the organisers and the state government.

    While prayers and high-decibel choir sessions under dazzling lights and special effects drew applause, the healing sessions at the end drew protests and questions by rationalists and rightwing Hindu activists on the “miracle powers” of the Israeli-born Hinn.

    In fact, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has demanded the resignation of Dharam Singh for permitting Hinn to conduct the festival and “mislead” the people with his healing powers to cure the sick and terminal patients.

    Challenging Hinn's claims that several people got cured of their diseases by participating in the prayer-cum-healing sessions with the blessings of Jesus Christ, Hindu activists said an equal number of sick went home disappointed with no change in their health condition.

    Refuting the charges, Hinn told the gathering that god alone was the healer and he simply prayed to invoke the lord's blessings to cure the sick and help the poor as Jesus Christ did over 2,000 years ago.

    “I want to dispel apprehensions that I have come here to convert people. It is not true. I am only a servant of Jesus. I came here because people in India also need healing, just like anywhere in the world. God wants to heal. That is why millions of people have come to attend the festival and not for me,” Hinn asserted.

    Thanking the state government, the city police and the Indian organisers for the peaceful conduct of the festival, Hinn told the gathering that he would return to India in February 2006 to hold a similar congregation at Hyderabad.

    Apart from thousands of Hinn's followers making a beeline to the venue on the outskirts of the city, a galaxy of political leaders and other VIPs made their presence felt with special prayers and blessings from the controversial evangelist.

    Among the prominent leaders who graced the occasion with their families included former prime minister H.D. Deve Gowda, central minister Oscar Fernandes, Chief Minister N. Dharam Singh and scores of Congress leaders like Margaret Alva.

    State Deputy Chief Minister Siddaramaiah declined to attend the meeting though some of his cabinet colleagues in the coalition government were present.

    --Indo-Asian News Service

    According to Indian Express, India - Jan 23, 2005
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Miracles in this century?

    What crap!!
     
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Move to America (1981)

    In the spring of 1981, Osho had been diagnosed with a prolapsed disc and had been treated by several doctors, including James Cyriax, a leading orthopedic surgeon from London.[74][75][76] On 1 June, Osho travelled to the United States on a tourist visa, for medical purposes, and spent several months at Kip's Castle in Montclair, New Jersey.[77] According to Susan J. Palmer, "the move appears to have been a unilateral decision on the part of Sheela."[78] Sheela stated that Osho was in grave danger if he remained in India but would receive appropriate medical treatment in America if he were to require surgery.[74][75][79] Osho's previous secretary, Laxmi, reported to Frances FitzGerald that "she had failed to find a property in India adequate to [Osho's] needs, and thus, when the medical emergency came, the initiative had passed to Sheela."[76]

    Other commentators believe that mounting tension around the Pune ashram, increasing criticism of its activities and threatened punitive action by the Indian authorities, created the impetus for Osho to relocate operations to America.[80][81][82] Gordon (1987) notes that Sheela and Osho had discussed the idea of establishing a new commune in the U.S. in late 1980,[74] although he did not agree to travel there until May 1981. During his time in America Osho never sought outside medical treatment, leading the Immigration and Naturalization Service to believe that he had a preconceived intent to remain there.[76] Osho later pleaded guilty to immigration fraud, including making false statements on his initial visa application.[nb 1][nb 2][nb 3]

    [edit] The Oregon commune (1981–1985)
    Further information: Rajneeshpuram

    On 13 June 1981, Sheela's husband bought, for US$5.75 million, a 64,229-acre (260 km2) ranch located across two Oregon counties (Wasco and Jefferson), previously known as "The Big Muddy Ranch".[83] The following month, work began on setting up the so-called Rancho Rajneesh commune; Osho moved there on 29 August.[84] The initial reactions of the host community ranged from hostility to tolerance, depending on the observer's distance from the ranch.[85] Within a year of arriving, Osho's followers had become embroiled in a series of legal battles with their neighbours, the principal conflict relating to land use.[86] In May 1982, the residents of Rancho Rajneesh voted to incorporate the city of Rajneeshpuram on the ranch.[86] The conflict with local residents escalated, with increasingly bitter hostility on both sides, and over the following years, the commune was subject to constant and coordinated pressures from various coalitions of Oregon residents.[86][87] For its own part, the commune leadership took an uncompromising and confrontational stance and behaved impatiently with locals.[88] Its behaviour was implicitly threatening, and the repeated changes in the commune's stated plans looked like conscious deception, whether they were or not.[88]
    Osho greeted by sannyasins on one of his daily "drive-bys" in Rajneeshpuram, 1982.

    Osho resided at Rajneeshpuram, living in a purpose-built trailer complex with an indoor swimming pool and other amenities. He did not lecture and only saw the majority of his followers on his daily drive-bys, when he would slowly drive past the long line of sannyasins waiting for him by the side of the road.[89] In this period, he gained notoriety for the large number of Rolls-Royce luxury cars[90] that his followers bought for his use, eventually numbering 93 vehicles.[91][92]

    As part of his withdrawal from public life, Osho had given Ma Anand Sheela limited power of attorney in 1981, and removed the limits in 1982.[93] In 1983, Sheela announced that he would henceforth speak only with her.[94] He would later claim that she kept him in ignorance.[93] Many sannyasins expressed doubts about whether Sheela truly represented Osho.[95] An increasing number of dissidents left Rajneeshpuram, citing disagreements with Sheela's autocratic leadership style.[95]

    Sannyasins who were not U.S. citizens found themselves in visa difficulties, which many tried to overcome by entering into marriages of convenience with American followers.[96] Osho himself had similar problems, which the commune tried to solve by declaring him the head of a religion called "Rajneeshism".[89] In November 1981, Osho applied for permission to reside in the country as a religious worker.[97] The application was refused on the grounds that he could not be leading a religion if he was unwell, and in a state of silence.[89][97] But the decision was later withdrawn, due to procedural violations.[98] The application for leave to stay as a religious leader was finally granted three years later, in 1984.[89]

    The Oregon years saw an increased emphasis on Osho's prediction that the conventional world would destroy itself by nuclear war or other disasters sometime in the 1990s.[99] Osho had said as early as 1964 that "the third and last war is now on the way", and had commented in the intervening years on the need to create a "new humanity" to avoid global suicide.[100] By the early 1980s, this had become the basis for a new exclusivism, with a 1983 article in the Rajneesh Foundation Newsletter announcing that "Rajneeshism is creating a Noah's Ark of consciousness ... I say to you that except this there is no other way".[100] These warnings contributed to an increased sense of urgency in getting the Oregon commune established.[100] In March 1984, Sheela announced that Osho had predicted the death of two-thirds of humanity from AIDS.[100][101] As a precaution, sannyasins were required to wear rubber gloves and condoms while making love and to refrain from kissing.[102][103] The measures were widely seen as an extreme overreaction; AIDS was not considered a heterosexual disease at the time, and the use of condoms was not yet widely recommended for AIDS prevention.[104]

    Osho ended his period of public silence on 30 October 1984, having announced that it was time for him to "speak his own truths."[105][106] In July 1985, he resumed his daily public discourses in the commune's 2-acre (8,100 m2) meditation hall. According to statements he made to the press, he did so against Sheela's wishes.[107] On 16 September 1985, a few days after Sheela and her entire management team had suddenly left the commune for Europe, Osho held a press conference in which he labelled Sheela and her associates a "gang of fascists."[108] He accused them of having committed a number of serious crimes, most of these dating back to 1984, and invited the authorities to investigate.[108] The alleged crimes, which he stated had been committed without his knowledge or consent, included the attempted murder of his personal physician, poisonings of public officials, wiretapping and bugging within the commune and within his own home, and a bioterror attack on the citizens of The Dalles, Oregon, using salmonella.[108] While his allegations were initially greeted with skepticism by outside observers,[109] the subsequent investigation by the U.S. authorities confirmed these accusations and resulted in the conviction of Sheela and several of her lieutenants.[110]

    The salmonella attack was noted as the first confirmed instance of chemical or biological terrorism to have occurred in the United States.[111] Osho stated that because he was in silence and isolation, meeting only with Sheela, he was unaware of the crimes committed by the Rajneeshpuram leadership until Sheela and her "gang" left and sannyasins came forward to inform him.[112] A number of commentators have stated that in their view Sheela was being used as a convenient scapegoat.[112][113][114] Others have pointed to the fact that although Sheela had bugged Osho's living quarters and made her tapes available to the U.S. authorities as part of her own plea bargain, no evidence has ever come to light that Osho had any part in her crimes.[115][116][117]

    Even though there was not enough evidence to bring charges against Osho, Gordon (1987) reports that Charles Turner, David Frohnmayer and other law enforcement officials who had surveyed affidavits that were never released publicly, and who had listened to the hundreds of hours of tape recordings that were retrieved from the ranch, insinuated to him that Osho was guilty of more crimes than those he was eventually prosecuted for.[118] Frohnmayer, who had written his Harvard honours thesis on Nietzsche and Lenin,[nb 4] asserted that Osho's philosophy was not "disapproving of poisoning", and that he felt he and Sheela had been "genuinely evil".[118] Turner, identifying himself as a born-again Christian, was no less emphatic, describing Osho's eyes as "luminous, almost with a satanic glow in them."[118]

    During his residence in Rajneeshpuram, Osho dictated three books while undergoing dental treatment under the influence of nitrous oxide (laughing gas): Glimpses of a Golden Childhood, Notes of a Madman, and Books I Have Loved.[119] Following her departure from Rajneeshpuram, Sheela stated in media interviews that Osho took sixty milligrams of Valium each day and was addicted to nitrous oxide.[120][121][122] Osho denied these charges when questioned about them by journalists.[120][123]

    [edit] Arrest (1985)

    On 23 October 1985, a federal grand jury issued a thirty-five-count indictment charging Osho and several other disciples with conspiracy to evade immigration laws.[124] The indictment was returned in camera, but word was leaked to Osho's lawyer.[124] Negotiations to allow Osho to surrender to authorities in Portland if a warrant were issued failed.[124][125] Tension peaked amid rumours of a National Guard takeover, a planned violent arrest of Osho and fears of shooting.[126] Having listened to hundreds of hours of tape recordings that Sheela had made, law enforcement authorities later came to believe there was a plan to create a human wall of sannyasin women and children should authorities attempt to arrest their guru.[118] On 28 October 1985, Osho, his personal physician and a small number of sannyasins accompanying them were arrested without a warrant aboard a rented Learjet at a North Carolina airstrip; the group were en route to Bermuda ($58,000 in cash and 35 watches and bracelets worth $1 million were also found on the aircraft).[126][127][128] Osho had by all accounts been neither informed of the impending arrest nor of the reasons for the journey.[125]

    Osho's imprisonment and transfer across the country took the form of a public spectacle – he was displayed in chains, held first in North Carolina, then Oklahoma, and finally in Portland.[129] Officials took the full ten days legally available to them to transfer him from North Carolina to Portland for arraignment.[129] After initially pleading not guilty to all charges and being released on bail, Osho, on the advice of his lawyers, entered an "Alford plea" – a type of guilty plea through which a suspect does not admit guilt, but does concede there is enough evidence to convict him – to one count of having concealed his intent to remain permanently in the U.S. at the time of his original visa application in 1981, and one count of conspiracy to have followers stay in the country illegally by having them enter into sham marriages.[130] Under the deal his lawyers made with the United States Attorney's office, he was given a 10-year suspended sentence and placed on five years' probation; in addition, he agreed to pay $400,000 in fines and prosecution costs, to leave the United States and not to return for at least five years without the permission of the United States Attorney General.
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Ok Rajneesh may have been a fraud.

    How come Benny Hinn is not?

    Gora?

    In this Godforsaken country, anyone who can blackmail or has the power to wield a stick, wins!!
     
  19. peacecracker

    peacecracker Regular Member

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    This thread needs answer which may be out of scope for this forum.but One word -Hindu Aggression or Right wing organizations are formed only due to a aggression from Organized Religions.Now Hinduism has evolved as such that ,now it patches itself from the missionary or Jihad by itself.bad news for Evangelical Church with Ambitious Projects like Joshua Project to Convert India.Similarly ,Expecting to invoke violence against the majority Hindus as per any some Islamic Schools of Thought(Salaffi or wahaabi to be precise) simply does not works any more in India.
    While the same time ,I hope This Country shall not be a Hindutva Play Ground.I know that it cannot Happen.People voted for Congress is a simple witness that Country is Very Secular ,even if Congress men are ... . :D
     
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Today, I saw a TV programme on CNN IBM on western dress in schools, colleges and public places.

    The questions were very ingeniously structured so that it indicates that Indians have an obscurantist attitude. Naturally, it is good for the TRP.

    What they failed to address, and deliberately, is that what dress will appear feminine and what will ‘provoke’ those who are depraved.

    I saw a girl today in low hung jeans, practically exposing her privates. Indeed, India is a democracy and we should not impose our views, but should this girl also not be cautioned that she should not impose her sexual frustrations on others?
     
  21. advaita

    advaita Regular Member

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    Dead right,
    But I am of the belief that we can actually use the situation to our advantage. THIS WILL BE LONG BUT REQUEST YOU TO JUST HEAR ME OUT.

    We must admit that India has huge minorities with huge-er voice boxes (for sake of ease lets call them "MINMAX") who see present only with the coloured glasses of past. These MINMAX are there in every community. These MINMAX simply dont realise that Nephew cannot be beaten up for the mistakes of the Uncle. This is because they keep themselves caught up in the stupid mayajaal of causation.
    See instead of putting our resources in literal littracy and then expecting economic activity. We should use our resources in educating these MINMAXs and the lay public that can easily be taken for a ride by these MINMAXs about the ways and means to use democracy and negotiation methodologies for developing mutual trust and cooperation.

    Further we can go to Hindutva MINMAX and tell them that look chinese and pakis wants fight by using our caste weaknesses so lets reinvent Hinduism to take care of them.

    Muslim MINMAX wont agree to the Paki angle, most of them are paki appologists. But I think even they would recognise the Kommi threat (Uighur logic).

    Sikh MINMAX will readly agree to Paki threat logic.

    Christ... MINMAX is actually Caste/Tribe MINMAX and they will readily agree to strengthen such plan.

    IN FACT WE SHOULD ACTUALLY THREATEN THEM (TACITLY OF COURSE - DEMOCRACY REMEMBER) THAT WE WILL BRAND THEM COLLABORATORS OF CHINESE AND PAKIS. SEE WHAT THE PAKIS DID. THEY KEPT BRANDING THE U.S. AS ANTI-PAKI AND GOT BAITULLAH KILLED.

    I thinks most of what needs to be done requires only the right person at the right place (BJP/Maya memsahib/Congress could have done these but alas these ......)
     

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