India helping Iran's Air Force

Pintu

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All are human beings, in every corner of this world, thats as related to anyone as you will ever get.

Right Kuku, and this bondage come first in any diplomatic activity or military activity blossoms. It is a fact neither born out of emotion. The future regarding success and failure resides in future. Simply speaking if you and I are the once good neighbour and relationship went down in a new low, if any body is to make a move to normalcy then he will have to make the first move with humane guesture, common gain persists and that will come in latter on due course, but has to win away first need to human bondage positively. Simply you come to my place and start talking with common goal , I think that can make thing little difficult for achieving one's 'Goal'.Barak Obama's open call for talk with Iran some how generated 'Little Positive' the answer of success lies in future.
 

kuku

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Right Kuku, and this bondage come first in any diplomatic activity or military activity blossoms. It is a fact neither born out of emotion. The future regarding success and failure resides in future.

Simply speaking if you and I are the once good neighbour and relationship went down in a new low, if any body is to make a move to normalcy then he will have to make the first move with humane guesture, common gain persists and that will come in latter on due course, but has to win away first need to human bondage positively.

Simply you come to my place and start talking with common goal , I think that can make thing little difficult for achieving one's 'Goal'.Barak Obama's open call for talk with Iran some how generated 'Little Positive' the answer of success lies in future.
The thing i was trying to state was this, if you have common gains rest can be worked out.

Frankly speaking the talk of centuries old relations and Iran helping out India in that OIF or OIS are two different things.

To give you an example USA went from a anti communist stand to having relations with PRC, the guiding goal was not that they found out that they had found some tremendous human bondage, it goal was to counter the soviets. (another observation would be that Nixon was regarded as a big time commie hater, which enabled him to develop relations with a communist nations without making the public think he was colluding with the communists).

I am not a extremist, what you say is obviously true, however it is not in this case or a majority of what i notice (in terms of foriegn relations).
 

Pintu

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The thing i was trying to state was this, if you have common gains rest can be worked out.

Frankly speaking the talk of centuries old relations and Iran helping out India in that OIF or OIS are two different things.

To give you an example USA went from a anti communist stand to having relations with PRC, the guiding goal was not that they found out that they had found some tremendous human bondage, it goal was to counter the soviets. (another observation would be that Nixon was regarded as a big time commie hater, which enabled him to develop relations with a communist nations without making the public think he was colluding with the communists).

I am not a extremist, what you say is obviously true, however it is not in this case or a majority of what i notice (in terms of foriegn relations).
In your point you have logic that common gains rest can be worked out, and also from my point what I am to say that , yes common gain persists, that is the goal , but to befriend a nation you need the help of human bondage first and this is the diplomacy is called, and then with time come you can talk now with the common gain. As for Nixon's example I am also to say that Nixon used the ping pong diplomacy, to end enmity with PRC by exchanging of ping pong players of the US and PRC in 1970. I think if the then US president directly flew over to PRC and started talking 'Common gains' first then the impact would be negative. He used the option of exchange of the players and that resulted his visit in PRC in 1972, then he worked for his goal for checking Soviets.

It is true that and I am also in that opinion that in majority cases(obviously on foreign relation) the human bondage does not work out.

And just for curiosity and if the topic does not veer to off topic can please throw some light of the cause behind the help of Iran to India in OIF or OIS.

regards.
 

kuku

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In your point you have logic that common gains rest can be worked out, and also from my point what I am to say that , yes common gain persists, that is the goal , but to befriend a nation you need the help of human bondage first and this is the diplomacy is called, and then with time come you can talk now with the common gain.

As for Nixon's example I am also to say that Nixon used the ping pong diplomacy, to end enmity with PRC by exchanging of ping pong players of the US and PRC in 1970.

I think if the then US president directly flew over to PRC and started talking 'Common gains' first then the impact would be negative. He used the option of exchange of the players and that resulted his visit in PRC in 1972, then he worked for his goal for checking Soviets.

It is true that and I am also in that opinion that in majority cases(obviously on foreign relation) the human bondage does not work out.

And just for curiosity and if the topic does not veer to off topic can please throw some light of the cause behind the help of Iran to India in OIF or OIS.

regards.
Well then its the same point of view, my view is that once you have a common goal that must be exercised, you start with the confidence building measures (which will present themselves without too much trouble). Of course this is a generic statement and can not be applied to every single situation there is. The goal of diplomacy is not diplomacy itself.

The ping pong could have been replaced with badminton, chess or Chinese checkers. The goal was always clear before the ping pong diplomacy i will try to find some good online documents on this.

Its not really veering off from the topic, just what we the hindi speaking populace of India call "bal ki khal utarna" or something like that.

Regarding the OIC, Iran and India:
http://www.rediff.com/cms/print.jsp?docpath=/news/2005/oct/03spec1.htm
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jan/28iran.htm
http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/apr/11iran.htm
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/may/20iran.htm
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/sep/15guest.htm
http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/aug/04iran.htm

Why they did what they did, i suppose its the age old game of balance in the world, the same reason is behind the now famous diplomacy behind Indo-Soviet relations that lead to the signing of the treaty of friendship, and now what propels the Indo-US relations.

We dont have to sit in a camp, or be someones allies, completely neglecting others.
 

Pintu

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bal ki khal utarna
To prove the truth and uphold truth I'll go any extent what may you say through your Hindi proverb.

As for the topic , I 'll say that the Goal remains and will be the core issue, and simply I don't mean that Goal of diplomacy is diplomacy , I say that to start from a new low, you should have start with some confidence building measures, and raising the common goal will come in appropriate time. In case of Iran - India relation ship , the bondage goes back to 1000 years, but the time the high level delegation visits in the both country they talk about the bondage first.

I agree with you on the last line of your post.
 

Pintu

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Thanks and regards for the link KUKU,


I've read out the links , as I am reiterating that common goal persists, but human bondage plays that very vital role needed, for smooth proceedings to that goal.

It also needs to say that there is more than common goal,that is proper human bondage when two ancient nations move ahead in new dimension, the common goal' policy only way through when the common goal reached. PRC-USA relationship I think is the example.The contrast also in 'human bondage theory'
is India , China relation ship.

This is my personal view and any respected members have/has his/her different view on it.
 

Yusuf

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India has always adopted an independent foreign policy. Indias relations with Iran are historic and not influenced by others. We have our own interests in having good ties with Iran. Although the gas deal didnt work out, we have much broader relations than that to affect our long term relations. We have made a port out there. Also a road that goes from there to Afghanistan. The US these days is also winking at Indian involvement in Iran as it also needs that country as an alternative supply route to A-stan. Its a game being played out there. The US winked when China was arming Pakistan as it suited it that time. It will keep looking the other way till the time its interests are being served.
 

VayuSena1

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India has always adopted an independent foreign policy. Indias relations with Iran are historic and not influenced by others. We have our own interests in having good ties with Iran. Although the gas deal didnt work out, we have much broader relations than that to affect our long term relations. We have made a port out there. Also a road that goes from there to Afghanistan. The US these days is also winking at Indian involvement in Iran as it also needs that country as an alternative supply route to A-stan. Its a game being played out there. The US winked when China was arming Pakistan as it suited it that time. It will keep looking the other way till the time its interests are being served.
I am in agreement with you, considering that Iranians are the only OIC members that have fully supported Kashmir's stand on India and therefore lent crucial political support in the UNO, apart from Saddam's Iraq. To return this cooperation and make Iran side us in the coming future, I believe lending a helping hand to Iran at an intermediate level would not cause USA to worry. I say intermediate because we cannot lend heavy help to Iranians due to their rivalry with another friend--Israel.

By large scale help, I want to refer to the fact that Iran was one of the first countries who was extremely interested to buy the BrahMos Mk.1 and so was Israel. However, due to neutrality, India and Russia refused to sell such sensitive technology to either of the countries.
 

rock45

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kuku thanks for links there were interesting and helpful.
 

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