India has proved strangely unable to build serious military muscle

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by thunder, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. thunder

    thunder Tihar Jail Banned

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    Guns and ghee
    India is wise to speak softly, but it could do with a bigger stick
    [​IMG]
    TO MANY Indians, their country’s strategic position looks alarming. Its two biggest neighbours are China and Pakistan. It has fought wars with both, and border issues still fester. Both are nuclear-armed, and are allies with one another to boot. China, a rising superpower with five times India’s GDP, is quietly encroaching on India’s traditional sphere of influence, tying a “string of pearls” of alliances around the subcontinent. Relatively weak but safe behind its nuclear shield, Pakistan harbours Islamist guerrillas who have repeatedly struck Indian targets; regional security wonks have long feared that another such incident might spark a conflagration.

    So when four heavily armed infiltrators attacked an Indian army base on September 18th, killing 18 soldiers before being shot dead themselves, jitters inevitably spread. The base nestles in mountains close to the “line of control”, as the border between the Indian and Pakistani-administered parts of the disputed territory of Kashmir is known. Indian officials reflexively blamed Pakistan; politicians and pundits vied in demanding a punchy response. “Every Pakistan post through which infiltration takes place should be reduced to rubble by artillery fire,” blustered a retired brigadier who now mans a think-tank in New Delhi, India’s capital.

    Yet despite electoral promises to be tough on Pakistan, the Hindu-nationalist government of Narendra Modi has trodden as softly as its predecessors. On September 21st it summoned Pakistan’s envoy for a wrist-slap, citing evidence that the attackers had indeed slipped across the border, and noting that India has stopped 17 such incursions since the beginning of the year. Much to the chagrin of India’s armchair warriors, such polite reprimands are likely to be the limit of India’s response.

    There are good reasons for this. India gains diplomatic stature by behaving more responsibly than Pakistan. It is keenly aware of the danger of nuclear escalation, and of the risks of brinkmanship to its economy. Indian intelligence agencies also understand that they face an unusual adversary in Pakistan: such is its political frailty that any Indian belligerence tends to strengthen exactly the elements in Pakistan’s power structure that are most inimical to India’s own interests.

    But there is another, less obvious reason for reticence. India is not as strong militarily as the numbers might suggest. Puzzlingly, given how its international ambitions are growing along with its economy, and how alarming its strategic position looks, India has proved strangely unable to build serious military muscle.

    India’s armed forces look good on paper. It fields the world’s second-biggest standing army
    , after China, with long fighting experience in a variety of terrains and situations (see chart). It has topped the list of global arms importers since 2010, sucking in a formidable array of top-of-the-line weaponry, including Russian warplanes, Israeli missiles, American transport aircraft and French submarines. State-owned Indian firms churn out some impressive gear, too, including fighter jets, cruise missiles and the 40,000-tonne aircraft-carrier under construction in a shipyard in Kochi, in the south of the country.

    [​IMG]
    Yet there are serious chinks in India’s armour. Much of its weaponry is, in fact, outdated or ill maintained. “Our air defence is in a shocking state,” says Ajai Shukla, a commentator on military affairs. “What’s in place is mostly 1970s vintage, and it may take ten years to install the fancy new gear.” On paper, India’s air force is the world’s fourth largest, with around 2,000 aircraft in service. But an internal report seen in 2014 byIHS Jane’s, a defence publication, revealed that only 60% were typically fit to fly. A report earlier this year by a government accounting agency estimated that the “serviceability” of the 45 MiG 29K jets that are the pride of the Indian navy’s air arm ranged between 16% and 38%. They were intended to fly from the carrier currently under construction, which was ordered more than 15 years ago and was meant to have been launched in 2010. According to the government’s auditors the ship, after some 1,150 modifications, now looks unlikely to sail before 2023.

    Such delays are far from unusual. India’s army, for instance, has been seeking a new standard assault rifle since 1982; torn between demands for local production and the temptation of fancy imports, and between doctrines calling for heavier firepower or more versatility, it has flip-flopped ever since. India’s air force has spent 16 years perusing fighter aircraft to replace ageing Soviet-era models. By demanding over-ambitious specifications, bargain prices, hard-to-meet local-content quotas and so on, it has left foreign manufacturers “banging heads against the wall”, in the words of one Indian military analyst. Four years ago France appeared to have clinched a deal to sell 126 of its Rafale fighters. The order has since been whittled to 36, but is at least about to be finalised.

    India’s military is also scandal-prone. Corruption has been a problem in the past, and observers rightly wonder how guerrillas manage to penetrate heavily guarded bases repeatedly. Lately the Indian public has been treated to legal battles between generals over promotions, loud disputes over pay and orders for officers to lose weight. In July a military transport plane vanished into the Bay of Bengal with 29 people aboard; no trace of it has been found. In August an Australian newspaper leaked extensive technical details of India’s new French submarines.

    The deeper problem with India’s military is structural. The three services are each reasonably competent, say security experts; the trouble is that they function as separate fiefdoms. “No service talks to the others, and the civilians in the Ministry of Defence don’t talk to them,” says Mr Shukla. Bizarrely, there are no military men inside the ministry at all. Like India’s other ministries, defence is run by rotating civil servants and political appointees more focused on ballot boxes than ballistics. “They seem to think a general practitioner can perform surgery,” says Abhijit Iyer-Mitra, who has worked as a consultant for the ministry. Despite their growing brawn, India’s armed forces still lack a brain.


    http://www.economist.com/news/asia/...uns-and-ghee?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/gunsandghee
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
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  3. republic_roi97

    republic_roi97 Senior Member Senior Member

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    @pmaitra please correct the spelling of India.:india:
     
  4. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    This article is full of half truths. Though much needs to be done but the situation isn't as alarming as brought out. Yes, we have lost the last 10 years under the poodle-faking Congress rule but things are looking up now. In the next 3-5 years we will be a force to reckon with.

    Also remember, the effectiveness of Pakistan's air force is a;so between 50-60%. And the best air force in the world has a serviceability rate of 60-65% which is considered good!

    Russian military has achieved the following serviceability rates:

    • 63 percent for Aerospace Forces (VKS) aircraft;
    • 96 percent for air and missile defense systems;
    • 98 percent for space systems;
    • 76 percent for the Navy;
    • 94 percent for armored units;
    • 93 percent for artillery units.
    The Indian armed forces have similar statistics. So why is the author of the article running around like an alarmed hen in a pigsty? Our serviceability rates are probably better than our adversaries.
     
  5. anupamsurey

    anupamsurey Regular Member

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    I think economists will fight the next war. seriously stick to area of your expertiese and let the war waging onto the armed forces.
     
  6. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    So much? It's very low in percentage. Nearly your half.
     
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  7. republic_roi97

    republic_roi97 Senior Member Senior Member

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    GST is a proof that Corruption is going to drastically decrease from April 2017 onwards.
     
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  8. su35

    su35 Regular Member

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    How can we belive the date provided our very own respected neighbours. More ever there is no way to stop corruption. It was there from Pharaohs to Roman to English to modern World
     
  9. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    the congress government rule of 10 years has seriously weakened our defence capability and we simply don't have an military answer to pakistan's aggression . a k antony was the worst defence minister , who refused to buy any defence related equipment because he was afraid that his name would get embroiled in a corruption scandal like bofors !!

    read more---

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ak-antony-defence-minister-scams-upa-ii/1/347190.html
     
  10. airtel

    airtel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mr. Ajai Shukla is a paid Agent of foreign weapon manufacturers .

    dont take Him seriously .
     
  11. Scarface

    Scarface Regular Member

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    UPA rule has definitely taken a toll on the armed forces

    But the current government isn't exactly providing satisfactory performance in modernizing our forces

    At least as far as defence acquisitions are concerned.
     
  12. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    Doubled defense exports and indigenization ratio rose to 40% from 25%.
    Still, I got another article which defies anything happening on ground.

    Government bashing is a fashion man, use statistics.
     
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  13. Scarface

    Scarface Regular Member

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    The acquisition process is still slow as balls,only 36 out of 126 aircraft have been purchased for the AF,they haven't decided what to buy among the 90,then there will be negotations and god knows how long that will take.

    Still too slow.
     
  14. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    They got you Rafale and Tejas in just 2 years which UPA could not do in 10 years of rule. They signed deal for maufacturing Avro replacement in India. They cleared hurdles in path of HTT-40. And also got you KA-225 for LUH requirement. That's 5 important development just for IAF. There is long list to make if i go in detail.
     
  15. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    FYI, it will long for infinity and costly fighters like Rafael won't be bought anymore. This deal had to take place because it could be fatal for our reputation and foreign relations with France to suddenly step back from such a big deal. We will select other fighter.
    And y
    If you think that acquisition process is slow, 7-8 years pending deal finalized in 2 years. If this is slow, think about UPA then.
     
  16. aditya10r

    aditya10r PHAK MU LUCK Senior Member

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    Man how did you land at $180 trillion Mark I was expecting 50-60 trillion usd only.
    The numbers seems very very very inflated.
     
  17. Akshay_Fenix

    Akshay_Fenix Member

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    Sadly you are mistaken.

    India is planning to buy 225+ Rafales.

    Due to no defense purchase since past 10 years, India had to buy 36 fighters off the shelf with weapons, supplies, Indian modification and spares included. These 36 will be made in France and will be used by IAF.

    The Indian Navy also wants Rafale for its aircraft carriers so 18+ Rafales will be purchased off the shelf as well.

    The rest 90+ of the Rafales will be Made in India. (France will build the assembly lines to make these beauties in India, and 75% parts will be used from local Indian manufacturers)

    Why the current deal costs a lot of money?
    Here's a break down:

    3.2b for 36 Rafale, unit fly away cost becomes 95m/ac.
    1.8b for associated supplies
    1.7b for integrating India specific weapons.
    700m for weapons.
    350m for spares. (Euros)

    The deal costs 7.8b euros out of which 50% will be invested back in India which is 3.9b euros.

    In conclusion, this is the best deal India has ever had in a long time.
     
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  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Garbage article. Usual trash from media who do not check facts and print anything


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    These number are from IMF which considers uniform growth forever but as growth slows with development of country, IMF numbers aren't reliable.
    There must be World Bank and PwC reports etc. use for it.
    Source?
    Because there's no question of buying them in such large numbers without ToT.
    Next MRCA government is selecting is to be made in India but India itself has to import 40% of parts.

    Moreover, I think nobody cited for Rafael M (Naval) since the deal.
     
  20. aditya10r

    aditya10r PHAK MU LUCK Senior Member

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    But still 180 trillion
    Impossible..............................
     
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  21. Akshay_Fenix

    Akshay_Fenix Member

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    Wait till jan for any news sources.
    Yes there will be TOT.
     
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