India finalizing plans to order three more Scorpene submarines

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by mikhail, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
    NEW DELHI: Faced with an ageing underwater combat arm even as China and Pakistan bolster their fleets, India is now finalizing plans to order three more French Scorpene submarines after the first six are constructed at Mazagon Docks as well as issue the tender for six new-generation stealth submarines by next year.

    India is also steadily cranking up military force-levels and infrastructure in the strategically-located Andaman and Nicobar Command in a bid to effectively counter China's strategic moves in the IOR as well as ensure security of sea lanes converging towards Malacca Strait, as was reported by TOI earlier.
    "The aim is to ensure the islands are not only well protected but also act as a strategic location for basing aircraft, warships and submarines. The proximity of A&N Islands to Malacca Strait makes them very strategic since they overlook busy sea lanes and choke points," said Navy chief Admiral Robin Dhowan on Thursday.

    On the underwater combat front, work is also underway to draw up technical parameters and select the shipyard for the construction of six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs), which got "acceptance of necessity" earlier this year. "The six SSNs will be constructed under the Make in India programme," said Admiral Dhowan.
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    INS Arihant, the country's first nuclear-powered submarine armed with nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles, called a SSBN in naval parlance, will also be commissioned next year. The other two follow-on SSBNs are in an advanced stage of construction at Vizag. "INS Arihant's sea trials (which began a year ago) are proceeding satisfactorily," said the Navy chief.
    All these projects may seem a lot but remember India currently has just 13 ageing conventional diesel-electric submarines -- 10 of which are well over 25 years old -- and one SSN in INS Chakra on lease from Russia, which is not armed with nuclear missiles in line with international treaties.

    China, in sharp contrast, has 51 conventional and five nuclear submarines, and is on course to induct another five JIN-class SSBNs with the 7,400-km range JL-2 missiles. The frequent forays of Chinese conventional and nuclear submarines in the Indian Ocean region, with halts from Colombo to Karachi, has only added to India's strategic challenges in the region over the last couple of years. The combat edge India has over Pakistan is also fast eroding, with Islamabad recently ordering eight more advanced diesel-electric submarines from Beijing.

    The Navy, however, is nonchalant. "Collaboration between Pakistan and China is nothing new, nor is their development of Gwadar port. The geostrategic environment keeps on changing. We take note of the developments and factor them into our own plans," said Admiral Dhowan.

    Asked about China's plans for an overseas military logistics facility in Djibouti, he said: "It's their plan. We are focusing on our strategy of shaping a favourable and positive maritime environment with presence and cooperation with IOR countries."

    "Today, our Navy is a multi-dimensional, networked force, which is combat-ready to take on any challenge in the IOR as well as protect the country's huge maritime interests," he said, adding his force's "operational footprint" had steadily increased over the years from the Western Pacific in the east to the North Atlantic in the west.

    The maritime capability perspective plan has laid down the route for the Navy to become a 198-warship and 600-aircraft force by 2027, even though it's currently grappling with critical operational deficiencies in submarines, multi-role helicopters and minesweepers.
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-Scorpene-submarines/articleshow/50035641.cms
     
    Kshatriya87, Neil, Illusive and 2 others like this.
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  3. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    go modi go ahead .................................. :india:
     
    mikhail and maomao like this.
  4. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    Seems like scorpene wont win P(75) and that is why French are getting order for 3 more.... I guess U boat is going to win.... anyway 3 more scopenes will add a mean punch in India's underwater arm... Imagine IN with 9 scorpenes, 6 U boats, 9 Kilos (upgraded), 2 Akula's and our home made nuclear Arihant family subs.... My god....
     
  5. Punya Pratap

    Punya Pratap Regular Member

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    I dont think this is a mandate for U Boats.... Modi is going to Russia and he has to appease our Oldest Friend. How do you think he will reconcile with the Russians without making some orders (FGFA + Kamov + Project 75I)?
     
  6. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    yeah My God.. we just created marmalade and fruit jam.

    can any one tell me will we be getting any TOT?

    by increasing the order of FGFA,

    signing a new missile venture

    by asking them to invest in solar

    space programs.

    etc..
     
  7. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    Maybe I am wrong to think it a mandate for U boats, but I believe U boats are the most capable subs in the tender currently and I would really love to have it in IN so we get 2 modern western subs.... Amur may win too but I think Modi will make Russians happy by ordering Pak-Fa, S-400, Kamov choppers and then go for U boats... what you think?
     
  8. vishwaprasad

    vishwaprasad Regular Member

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    self deleted......................................................
     
  9. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    and dont forget the other 6 ssn,

    no tot on subs and jets,
    but they gonna be make in india so boast for shipbuilding industry,
    while they learn new work culture,
    looks like only the weapons missiles and torpedoes and few other systems like drdo aip gonna be indian tech which india requires in hugh quantity.
     
  10. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    delete double post...................................................................................
     
  11. warrior monk

    warrior monk Regular Member

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    These subs will definitely have our own Phosphoric acid solvent fuel cells based AIP .
     
  12. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Wait . First they will float tender , Phir tender , tender returns , tender part 10 then repeat tender etc etc
     
  13. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    We buy these 3 scopene submarines "after" we build 6 in house first. I don't see these 3 coming to India within 5 to 7 years atleast.

    Also, as I understand, scopenes are not nuclear powered. Will someone please tell me why are we buying diesel powered submarines instead of going nuclear?
     
  14. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Neval induction is fastest among all armed forces ....... 1 - 2 big warships or aircraft are being inducted on yearly basis.
     
  15. Punya Pratap

    Punya Pratap Regular Member

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    I think MDL can produce the 3 Scorpenes quickly as its finally got the hang of things. As of date 2016 on wards one Scorpene per 9 months was promised. All these Subs are in various stages of manufacturing and ordering 3 more Scorpenes at this time is a timely decision since the last of the 6 Subs hull has been forged. So before the manufacturing line goes idle (hull fabrication) its good to keep it busy!

    @ Kshatriya87 we have a separate need for at least 18 SSK's to replace the aging fleet and shore up the numbers to meet the Chinese threat in the IOR. To add to it Pakistan is acquiring 8 more which will raise their Sub fleet to 11 operational Subs. So I think we need 18 SSK's + 8 SSN's + 6 SSBN's.
     
  16. rohit b3

    rohit b3 Regular Member

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    We are going Nuclear with 3 Arihant Class Submarines under construction , Larger Arihant Class follow on and a SSN class under design as you know.
    But those will take a while, Project 75 and 75I Diesel subs are additional firepower, over and above the Nuke subs and an immediate quick solution.
     
  17. lupgain

    lupgain Offence is best defense

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    Secret data on combat capability of India's Scorpene submarines leaked: Report

    NEW DELHI: Highly sensitive data detailing almost every aspect of the combat capability of India's Scorpene-class submarine+ , "the most lethal conventional submarine ever contemplated", has been leaked, the newspaper The Australian reported on Wednesday.

    India has forked over as much as $3.45 billion to French defence contractor DCNS for designing the Scorpene exclusively for India.

    The leaked documents were marked "Restricted Scorpene India", the Australian newspaper said. Among the 22,400 pages of leaked documents were also thousands of pages on the Scorpene's sensors and thousands more on its communication and navigation systems. As many as 500 pages were on the torpedo launch system alone.

    The DCNS website says the Scorpene would be "the recipient of France's most sensitive and protected submarine technology and will be the most lethal conventional submarine ever contemplated".

    The first of the Scorpene -class submarines - being built in India and called Kalvari - underwent sea trials in May+ this year. It is expected to soon be inducted into the Indian Navy. Indian Navy officials have earlier said that the six submarines, once inducted, would form the core of the Navy's submarine arm for the next two decades.

    Defence minister Manohar Parrikar has sought a report from the Navy on the data leak.

    "This came to my knowledge at 12 midnight, it is a case of hacking," Parrikar said on Wednesday. "The first step is to identify if it's related to us, and anyway it's not (at) all a 100% leak," he added.

    Where did the leak originate?

    France's DCNS said that it was aware of the articles published in the Australian press and that "national security authorities" had launched an inquiry into the matter, without giving details.

    "This inquiry will determine the precise nature of the documents which have been leaked, the potential damage to our customers as well as those responsible," the French defence contractor said.

    According to the Australian newspaper, DCNS has implied that the leak may have come from India rather than from France. The data, however, was thought to have been removed from France in 2011 by a former French navy officer who was, at the time, a subcontractor for DCNS. The leaks are believed to have passed through companies in Southeast Asia before eventually being mailed to a company in Australia, the newspaper said.

    "Uncontrolled technical data is not possible in the Australian Arrangements," the company said according to the Australian newspaper's report. "Multiple and independent controls exist within DCNS to prevent unauthorized access to data and all data movements are encrypted and recorded," it said, IANS reported today.


    "In the case of India, where a DCNS design is built by a local company, DCNS is the provider and not the controller of technical data."




    Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull sought to play down the impact of the leak for Australia. He said while it is a matter "of concern", Australia is somewhat protected because it is buying a different model of the Scorpene. Australia+awarded DCNS an Aus$50 billion (US$38 billion) contract last April to design and build its next generation of submarines.
    "The submarine we are building or will be building with the French is called the Barracuda, quite, completely different submarine to the Scorpene they are building for India. We have the highest security protections on all of our defence information, whether it is in partnership with other countries or entirely within Australia," Turnbull told Channel Seven.

    The leak is cause for alarm not just for India, but also for Malaysia and for Chile, which use a variant of the Scorpene. Brazil is due to deploy the vessels from 2018.
     
  18. Brood Father

    Brood Father Regular Member

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    Leak is specific to India ...Such a incompetent system we have that we cannot even prevent such calamity
    Now manohar parikar will blame Pakistan for it and Rajnath will do kadi ninda
    How can we prevent such things ?
    And if the leak happened should we scrap the deal , sure it will cost us .millions but we cannot compromise with our national security
    Each and every individual who are actively or passively involved in the leak should be tried and be given harshest punishment
     
  19. aliyah

    aliyah Regular Member

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    these things allways comes up after India's every big deal.....then govt black list it and project get delayed by decades...... its an old trick
     
  20. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    I have been advocating rapid indigenisation of defence equipment for a long time and for a simple reason. We have about USD 20-30 billion to spend on purchasing of equipment every year. And there is a long list of sellers who are ever so dependent on it. One because of their sinking market, two because of increase in the cost of development and production and three because of increasing number of competitors. The situation is akin to a pack of wolves aiming at a single lamb. Everyone is aiming for a lion's share. But there is no guarantee that anyone will ever get one. Still, one thing is guaranteed the lamb will get butchered. The analogy may not be clear in itself but the message is. Stop being a lamb.
     

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