India far behind China’s combat power

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by kseeker, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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    India is years behind the Chinese military with the Communist neighbour currently outnumbering the country’s combat power by a 3:1 ratio, a defence ministry document has revealed.

    India hopes to bridge the gap in the next 15 years by improving its fighting capacity with new stealth jets, aircraft carriers, nuclear-powered submarines, warships and land-based strike formations.

    The document, accessed by Hindustan Times, predicts the picture will change by the end of the 14th Plan period (2022-27), with India narrowing the gap in combat power with China to a “desirable ratio” of 1.5:1.


    The dynamics of combat power encompass elements such as a military’s firepower, mobility, logistic capability, manpower and sustainability — factors that ultimately determine the outcome of a war.

    Strategic affairs expert air vice Marshal Kapil Kak (retd) said the “desirable combat ratio” appeared to be achievable.

    Steps taken by India to counter China’s military build-up have led to a marginal improvement in the relative-force ratio, the document shows.

    The setting up of two new infantry divisions in 2010 in the northeast has lowered China’s combat advantage to a “2.7:1 ratio”. Odds, however, are still stacked against the army.

    “In a land battle, an army can only defend against an attacking force three times its strength,” a former chief said.

    The raising of a new mountain strike corps — with 85,000 soldiers — to defend Arunachal Pradesh is expected to further reduce the Chinese military advantage to a ratio of 2.1:1 by end of the 13th Plan Period (2022).

    The new strike formation will give the army the capability to mount offensive action into the Tibet Autonomous Region.

    Experts warn China is expected to step up efforts to transform its military to retain an edge over India. China’s official defence budget for 2013-14 stands at Rs. 5,94,000 crore, compared to India’s Rs. 2,03,672 crore.

    However, China’s actual military spending may be higher, with experts suspecting dramatic under reporting of its defence expenditure.


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    India may take 15 years to catch up with China's combat power - Hindustan Times
     
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  3. Blood+

    Blood+ Regular Member

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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  4. Bilal

    Bilal Regular Member

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    Re: India far behind china's combat power

    that is so true i have been to china and seen it,its really far beyond you guys.
     
  5. rohit b3

    rohit b3 Regular Member

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    Re: India far behind china's combat power

    Unfortunately True. While we are stuck with Red tapes and depending on imports for short term advantages, China has already developed a massive indiginous defence infrastructure. Today they can produce couple of Ships every 5 years or so, while we are stuck with a 3000 tons corvette for the past 8 years..
     
  6. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: India far behind china's combat power

    May be you are correct but how being present physically in China reinforced your views about the assertion in question?

    If being there is a must for you to concur about some thing then, boss, you are the perfect candidate for India's first manned space flight to mars.

    Also, I have personal question, how hot is a coal fire?:cool2:
     
  7. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Re: India far behind china's combat power

    We are indeed lag behind, thanks to corruption and politics in defense ..

    Though there are some vital places we are ok, Such as firearms, Logistic vehicle, Light Artillery, Mortars etc ..
     
  8. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Re: India far behind china's combat power

    true,but at least we r in picture, u are nowhere in scene.


    stop being an advocate of chinis,be original, advocate ur country.

    In punjabi"" apni maanji thale daang pharo pela""
     
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  9. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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  10. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Re: India far behind china's combat power

    We are lagging behind not due to corruption, but that China is able to improve itself by leaps and bounds, beyond our capability to catch up within a reasonable timeframe.

    Notice we can catch up only by spending as much as they are and that's not possible with today's budget.

    It's called an arms race people.
     
  11. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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  12. BangersAndMash

    BangersAndMash Regular Member

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    Re: India far behind china's combat power

    Is that why china has purchased a cheap pro$$ie (pakistan) to fight India on it's behalf?
     
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  13. nirranj

    nirranj Regular Member

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    China has so much of weapons because It has so much of land to safeguard. It is also thrice the size of India in Land area. I has enemies in north, East, south east, South and a volatile western frontier. So China in case of a war, cannot put all its strength to over run India. India's concentration should be to achieve parity with China in the Himalayan theatre and superiority over Pakistan in the western theater and a Naval supremacy over Indian Ocean.
     
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  14. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    First of all, this gap has nothing to do with corruption or stupidity. Simply, it is only because Chinese is having a four times bigger GDP and spending 3 times money on its military force than the indians.

    Secondly, simply comparing the total forces of 2 countries is quite foolish. Chinese best soldiers and equipments are always deployed on its east coast when they are facing a far more powerful enemy--USA. The last thing Chinese wants is a war on India border before they sort out their east neighbourhood.

    Thirdly, it has become a tradition of indian media to exaggerate Chinese power. The total forces of Chengdu military district is around 180,000, which has to cover 4 provinces and 2 of them are next to south east asia which possess far more importance to Chinese. There is no way that Chinese could put more than 100,000 soldiers near Sino-India border or even Tibet during peaceful time.

    Chengdu Military Region

    If we check the military drills of Chengdu military district in the past 10 years, most of them are about how to reinforce tibet from thousands kilometers away.

    So, I believe the best ratio that Chinese can get is 1:1.
     
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  15. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    I don't know if you are aware about the far reaches of corruption, but, you IMO have misjudged it. Corruption in military procurement can very much affect combat effectiveness and will have direct impact on the troops morale.

    Nobody is contesting China's GDP or military spending. The troop distribution you have cited is from a source which has not been able to identify which army group it is quoting and the data is 11 years old that too in china's peace time. So basically, it is redundant. Would be better if you can cite some official sources of PLA. But, I honestly don't think you have the balls to do that ;).
    @p2prada
     
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  16. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually, the PLA never officially confirms its troop distributions, so it's not a question of balls...
     
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  17. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    we know the distribution of PLA Corps HQs. (Now I'm assuming that PLA hasn't set up a skeletal HQ in the middle of nowhere). Except in Uighur troubled regions where we expect a higher troop presence, the rest of the corps should be at peacetime strength, somewhere in the range of 30,000 to 50,000.

    Deducing all that, we can make a rough estimate of the troop presence near our borders, but we would likely be off by a division or two.
     
  18. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    So, you are suggesting that India could buy more weapons than China with the same amount of budget if corruption is not in way?

    Since 2002, Chinese has been reducing the number of soldiers by military mordernization, the total scale of its forces has been shrinking for years. Meanwhile, it is the east asia that attrct Chinese political and military leaders attention instead of sino-india border.
    So, basically, Chinese generals have no intention and human resource to increase their forces in Tibet. So, I believe this figure should not be too far from the reality.

    I can honestly tell you that it doesn't require the balls for any Chinese to do that simply because there is no official sources for that at all.
     
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  19. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    My answer was here :-
    To elaborate, I meant that with fair procurement, whatever weapons we are purchasing right now would be worth their salt. Instead of granting approvals to second rate weapons and paying exorbitant prices for them, we could buy / have top class weapons which do not create any trouble when the time comes.

    In modern warfare, the machine is more vital than the number of soldiers one has.

    Good for china. But, China not having human resources is a bluff. Can you quote any source to back your claim.

    Well, we did announce to the world when we started beefing up our North-Eastern borders. If there are no official sources for confirmation, it would mean that either china is plotting something clandestinely against it's neighbors or that chini generals do not have the balls to declare anything openly.

    BTW, by my previous post, I meant that chinese generals do not have the balls, not the chinese posters on DFI :)
     
  20. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    They are producing and inducting warships at a very rapid pace, same with their aircraft's, while we are taking our sweet time in putting a close to the Rafale deal. We have to increase our production rates of warships and induct it in a reasonable timeframe. As for our army F-INSAS, we all know its status.

    There is no urgency from our ministers to address these issues, they are sleeping in their jobs.
     
  21. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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    This is so true @happy and unbelievably shocking !

    I've just finished reading ex-COAS Gen. V,K, Singh's biography "courage and Conviction", He has mentioned, how corrupt our defence secretaries and bureaucrats are and how they are ruining apart our Army thus our country by doing corruption in defence procurement matters.

    For an example, when Gen V.K.Singh was COAS, Army proposed for more than 100 acquisitions however for around 7 months it was deliberately withheld by GOI by keeping a particular position vacant in MoD who could initiate and approve the proposed acquisitions. When someone got posted in that place, out of 100 proposed acquisitions, only 8 or 9 have been procured at the end of financial year :tsk:

    It was really shocking to know that, any proposed acquisition would take more than 36 months to materialise or even more once it is approved by babus :tsk:

    One who challenges, babus and ministers, they would face the wrath of GOI and would need to deal with False allegations.

    It's really sad and unfortunate that, even higher rank officers from Army, Navy and AF support these bureaucrat turds and sell our own nation :tsk:

    However, there are people who care for our motherland and are still loyal, uncorrupt hence, we are still living in India otherwise, we would have been already sold to either US or any other European countries or would have been captured by Chinese or Pukes.
     
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